On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Remember the dot <rememberthedot(a)gmail.com> wrote: That might cause issues and such since most creators want their readmes and such stored with them (and i've seen a few free ones with additonal rules against using in webpages as such so we would need to be aware of that as well), i think it might be better just to find the ones we want and ask the dev's to set them up for us.

Hoi, Do you agree with me that a font is superior when it has a better coverage? In my opinion the only thing that really counts is that we support the characters of the languages we support. All the rest is ballast preventing us from fulfilling our primary objective. Thanks, GerardM 2009/5/5 Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com<Simetrical%2Bwikilist@gmail.com > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 12:50 AM, K. Peachey &lt;p858snake(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > That might cause issues and such since most creators want their > > readmes and such stored with them (and i've seen a few free ones with > > additonal rules against using in webpages as such so we would need to > > be aware of that as well), > Those would, obviously, be forbidden to upload. As with any uploaded > media, all uploaded fonts would need to be explicitly and irrevocably > released under a free license, which means no requirements for readmes > or restrictions on type of use. > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3:59 AM, Gerard Meijssen > &lt;gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > Would this also be a solution for the problem we have with supporting > > languages like Lingala ? The standard Latin fonts do not suffice. > Yes, if free fonts are available that are superior, and if users use a > suitably modern browser. I believe the latest version of Safari would > work, and so would the upcoming Firefox 3.5. If we have EOT support, > all versions of Internet Explorer would work going back a long way. > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

I'd also offer my own MPH 2B Damase, although I'm not sure how it ranks in quality compared to other fonts these days. I created it several years ago and released it into the public domain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_Unicode_fonts#MPH_2B_Damase Mark 2009/5/11 Tim Larson &lt;larson(a)towncommons.com&gt;om>:

Hoi, One way of dealing with fonts is not only providing them for real time download but also for installation on the system. In this way we can provide the best possible service. Also we do need a proper font for the languages where the standard Latin fonts fail us !! Thanks, GerardM 2009/5/12 Brion Vibber &lt;brion(a)wikimedia.org&gt;

Στις 11-05-2009, ημέρα Δευ, και ώρα 16:15 -0700, ο/η Brion Vibber έγραψε: Except for the Wiktionaries, given that they will include lemmas from (eventually) all languages. For an indication of the size of the problem even now, folks might look at the entry for http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictionary ... Ariel

Brion Vibber schrieb: How about a small button somewhere? "download fonts now!". Could be hidden if no "special" chars are visible on the page. -- daniel

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:16 AM, Bence Damokos &lt;bdamokos(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Yes, that's what I understand as well. It was discussed on www-style just a little while ago: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0036.html Safari avoids Firefox's behavior to avoid re-rendering text, on the same principle as browsers these days don't start layout until they've got all CSS (to avoid FOUC). See also: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25207

El 5/11/09 5:27 PM, Aryeh Gregor escribió: Yup... Let's arbitrarily throw around size targets like: <100k good, <50k best, <20k miraculous. Primary target for scripts with major accessibility problems, where the download tax is outweighed by the improved reach. :D -- brion

On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Nikola Smolenski &lt;smolensk(a)eunet.yu&gt; wrote: a rare character, the decision should be for the browser to load the font and not for mediaWiki to push it. Some front end js can do the task well.

Hoi, Sans serif is a font family. It does not mean that the font itself contains the characters to show a language properly. As it is, I am not aware that Lingala is supported by any modern browser in the configuration we use our fonts in. Thanks, Gerard 2009/5/5 Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com<Simetrical%2Bwikilist@gmail.com > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Nikola Smolenski &lt;smolensk(a)eunet.yu> wrote: > > Even more helpful: MediaWiki could determine if a page uses a rare > > character upon save and link to appropriate fonts. > The problem with this is that it means the characters may be displayed > in a different font even if the default font actually contains them, > which is needlessly ugly. We can't say "Use this font, but only if > the font that would otherwise be used doesn't contain character X". > It's an okay tradeoff for languages where very few computers can read > them otherwise by default, but it needs to be used with care. > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Gerard Meijssen > &lt;gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > Do you agree with me that a font is superior when it has a better > coverage? > The user should be able to use whatever font they like. Wikipedia > currently does not specify a default font; the user's default is used. > This will often be the default system sans-serif font, which will > blend in nicely. Forcing a different font should only be done with > excellent reason (such as if text would otherwise show up as gibberish > on nearly all computers). > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

El 5/6/09 12:02 PM, Remember the dot escribió: Probably no point to that, since fonts are restricted by the same-origin rule (at least in Firefox). They'll need to be hosted along with the web servers, or else we'd have to jump through some hoops for magic headers to support cross-site includes, which may or may not be a good idea. -- brion

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Remember the dot &lt;rememberthedot(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Ah shoot, I'm sorry. That's incorrect, instead we'd have to list every Wikimedia server in upload.wikimedia.org's Access-Control-Allow-Origin headers. That wouldn't work very well. You're right: we'd have to host the fonts with the web servers themselves. -- Remember the dot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Remember_the_dot

El 5/6/09 1:59 PM, Remember the dot escribió: More fun background on this here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTTP_access_control Probably safe. Probably. :) -- brion

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 3:08 AM, Nikola Smolenski &lt;smolensk(a)eunet.yu&gt; wrote: I don't think this actually works. sans-serif means "pick the characters from any available sans-serif font". Anything after it should therefore be ignored. I think. I could be wrong. CSS2.1 seems vague on whether you should pick fonts on a character-by-character basis, or just pick the first font available and use it for everything. Firefox usually tries fallback, but last I checked, IE doesn't. (Last I checked was probably IE6, though.) Does that actually work, though, in the betas?

Hoi, What would you describe as a rare font.. There are many articles in languages like Georgian, Kannada, Telugu or Dhihevi. There may be MANY interwiki links to the projects in those languages.. So my question is what makes them rare in your book ? Only one reference on a page ? What does that do for Japanese or Korean ?? Thanks, GerardM 2009/5/7 Platonides &lt;Platonides(a)gmail.com&gt;

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Mark Williamson &lt;node.ue(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: WebKit apparently blocks text rendering until all custom fonts have been downloaded. I'm not sure if it just avoids rendering the text in the custom font, or all text on the page -- if the latter, then we'd have to be *very* sparing with custom fonts. (Gecko has a FOUC effect instead: it renders with the fonts it has, and then re-renders when it gets the right ones. So that's less of an issue, although we don't want people downloading 20 fonts on every main page view in any event.)

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Tei &lt;oscar.vives(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Any fonts hosted by Wikimedia would presumably need to be released under an OSI-approved license, like all other content.