Hi,
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on Discourse (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to point the many existing scattered channels there.
This is an initial proposal for a pilot. If the pilot is successful, we will move it production. For that to happen we still need to sync well with Wikimedia Cloud Services, Operations and the Wikimedia technical community.
Please check https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse and share your feedback.
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi,
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on Discourse (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to point
the
many existing scattered channels there.
This is an initial proposal for a pilot. If the pilot is successful, we will move it production. For that to happen we still need to sync well
with
Wikimedia Cloud Services, Operations and the Wikimedia technical
community.
Please check https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse and share your feedback.
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
-- bawolff
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on Discourse (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to point the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some answers, and I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
MZMcBride
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them, not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on Discourse (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to point the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some answers, and I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them, not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
Discourse
(starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
point
the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Who's gonna maintain this installation?
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Niharika Kohli nkohli@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
they
will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
Talk
pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them, not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a
developer
support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
Discourse
(starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
point
the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you
involved
in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or
shutting
down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Niharika Software Engineer Community Tech Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Who's gonna maintain this installation?
The current status is explained at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#Maintenance
This is a proposal coming from the Technical Collaboration team and we have more or less everything we need to run the pilot. The draft plan already says that in the mid term (and before moving to production) we need to clarify what is the involvement of the Wikimedia Cloud Services team (who also organizes developer support activities) and Operations. These conversations are just starting with the publication of the draft plan.
Hi Quim,
Does it have already SUL support?
Quickly, mathieu
Le 19/11/2017 à 01:45, Quim Gil a écrit :
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Who's gonna maintain this installation?
The current status is explained at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#Maintenance
This is a proposal coming from the Technical Collaboration team and we have more or less everything we need to run the pilot. The draft plan already says that in the mid term (and before moving to production) we need to clarify what is the involvement of the Wikimedia Cloud Services team (who also organizes developer support activities) and Operations. These conversations are just starting with the publication of the draft plan.
On Fri, 2017-11-24 at 12:13 +0100, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Does it have already SUL support?
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse mentions SUL as something to sort out.
andre
I'm a bit late to this discussion but I thought it might be worth mentioning that Phacility recently moved their community support channel to Discourse. So far it seems to be working out pretty well. See https://discourse.phabricator-community.org/
On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Andre Klapper aklapper@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, 2017-11-24 at 12:13 +0100, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Does it have already SUL support?
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse mentions SUL as something to sort out.
andre
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hi again,
Will the published content under a free license? That might seems obvious but that is something which isn't granted with IRC or mailling lists.
Legislately, mathieu
Le 19/11/2017 à 01:45, Quim Gil a écrit :
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 11:04 PM, Max Semenik maxsem.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Who's gonna maintain this installation?
The current status is explained at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#Maintenance
This is a proposal coming from the Technical Collaboration team and we have more or less everything we need to run the pilot. The draft plan already says that in the mid term (and before moving to production) we need to clarify what is the involvement of the Wikimedia Cloud Services team (who also organizes developer support activities) and Operations. These conversations are just starting with the publication of the draft plan.
Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying and pasting and losing context).
Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised! (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them, not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a developer support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding New Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
Discourse
(starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
point
the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Niharika Software Engineer Community Tech Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Neither project:support_desk nor project:current_issues is really meant for that purpose - support desk is mainly for user and (external) sysadmin support. And current_issues is the village pump of mediawiki.org (the website not the software)
Honestly, I kind of think that lqt was better than flow for support desk. As much as lqt sucked at least search sort of worked.
Although the bigger problem probably is that project:support desk is protected so new users arent allowed to ask questions(!)
On the subject of search, i do think that https://lists.wikimedia.org/robots.txt is rediculous. At least for technical lists we should let google in, and the privacy concern is silly as there are mirrors that are indexed.
-- bawolff
On Saturday, November 18, 2017, Sam Wilson sam@samwilson.id.au wrote:
Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying and pasting and losing context).
Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised! (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining
are
the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for
something
else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
they
will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
Talk
pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used
to
any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is
them,
not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a
developer
support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding
New
Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
Discourse
(starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
point
the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some
answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you
involved
in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how
it
would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or
shutting
down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Niharika Software Engineer Community Tech Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
I was wrong about Support_desk being permenantly semi-protected. It was temporarily semi-protected for 3 days, but that's been lifted now.
Regardless of spam concerns, point still stands that it seems bad form to semi-protect the venue where newbies are supposed to ask for help. Not that i have any better solution to the spam issue.
-- bawolff
On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 3:33 AM, Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com wrote:
Neither project:support_desk nor project:current_issues is really meant for that purpose - support desk is mainly for user and (external) sysadmin support. And current_issues is the village pump of mediawiki.org (the website not the software)
Honestly, I kind of think that lqt was better than flow for support desk. As much as lqt sucked at least search sort of worked.
Although the bigger problem probably is that project:support desk is protected so new users arent allowed to ask questions(!)
On the subject of search, i do think that https://lists.wikimedia.org/robots.txt is rediculous. At least for technical lists we should let google in, and the privacy concern is silly as there are mirrors that are indexed.
-- bawolff
On Saturday, November 18, 2017, Sam Wilson sam@samwilson.id.au wrote:
Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying and pasting and losing context).
Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised! (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining are the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for something else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers, they will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki Talk pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used to any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is them, not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote: > The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a > developer > support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding > New > Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
Discourse
> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
point
>the many existing scattered channels there.
What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you involved in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how it would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or shutting down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Niharika Software Engineer Community Tech Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
If the proposal is triggered by technical problems at [[mw:Project:Support desk]], a simple solution is to make it a wikitext page.
As for the "one place" argument, https://xkcd.com/927/ applies.
Federico
I being a MediaWiki developer see this as a great step forward. Currently there are too many channels, where the information is all scattered around.
Finding help seems impossible at times on IRC. Mailing lists are difficult to follow. For search I use a Google so it kind of works, but the archives are difficult to comprehend. Discourse sounds like a great alternative.
I would also ask if there's a possibility to import content from other places to the new Discourse site, if that's not too much to ask(fingers crossed).
On Nov 19, 2017 8:43 PM, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
If the proposal is triggered by technical problems at [[mw:Project:Support desk]], a simple solution is to make it a wikitext page.
As for the "one place" argument, https://xkcd.com/927/ applies.
Federico
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
In my personal opinion, switching the support desk to wikitext only doesn't solve problems for newcomers. I also don't like discussion pages, because of wikitext, and the support desk (where a high amount of things could happen) is really impossible to follow for me with a wikitext page only. However, Flow also isn't a really good solution, even if it made some things better, though.
In my personal opinion, Discourse could very well replace the support desk as a support channel, at least when I compare both platforms and feature sets for me :)
However, you're right, implementing a new platform without having the goal to replace the other platforms with it, doesn't make much sense. On the other hand, without having a pilot for people actually supporting users on the support desk, to find out, if it is a platform they can work with, isn't really helpful. And, like I said, Discourse has a good chance of being a better platform for giving support as the current Support desk (and probably also better as the IRC channel and probably the mediawiki-l mailing list, too).
Best Florian
-----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel Datum: 2017-11-19T16:14:14+0100 Von: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" nemowiki@gmail.com An: "wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
If the proposal is triggered by technical problems at [[mw:Project:Support desk]], a simple solution is to make it a wikitext page.
As for the "one place" argument, https://xkcd.com/927/ applies.
Federico
_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Le 19/11/2017 à 04:33, Brian Wolff a écrit :
Neither project:support_desk nor project:current_issues is really meant for that purpose - support desk is mainly for user and (external) sysadmin support. And current_issues is the village pump of mediawiki.org (the website not the software)
Honestly, I kind of think that lqt was better than flow for support desk. As much as lqt sucked at least search sort of worked.
Although the bigger problem probably is that project:support desk is protected so new users arent allowed to ask questions(!)
On the subject of search, i do think that https://lists.wikimedia.org/robots.txt is rediculous. At least for technical lists we should let google in, and the privacy concern is silly as there are mirrors that are indexed.
The foundation is not responsible for, possibly illegal, behaviour of external parties. It's not silly to disallow copyrighted content on Commons just because you can find them on popular website which publish them illegaly.
-- bawolff
On Saturday, November 18, 2017, Sam Wilson sam@samwilson.id.au wrote:
Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying and pasting and losing context).
Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised! (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining
are
the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for
something
else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
they
will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
Talk
pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used
to
any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is
them,
not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote: > The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a
developer
> support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding
New
> Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
Discourse
> (starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to
point
> the many existing scattered channels there. What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones?
Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some
answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you
involved
in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how
it
would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or
shutting
down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Niharika Software Engineer Community Tech Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hi Mathieu,
This pilot doesn't have Wikimedia SUL as a requirement, but a move to production would. For a discussion about Discourse and single sign-on, see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124691
The content license would be the same as MediaWiki.org, unless someone has a better suggestion: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:19 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave@culture-libre.org> wrote:
Le 19/11/2017 à 04:33, Brian Wolff a écrit :
Neither project:support_desk nor project:current_issues is really meant for that purpose - support desk is mainly for user and (external) sysadmin support. And current_issues is the village pump of mediawiki.org (the website not the software)
Honestly, I kind of think that lqt was better than flow for support desk. As much as lqt sucked at least search sort of worked.
Although the bigger problem probably is that project:support desk is protected so new users arent allowed to ask questions(!)
On the subject of search, i do think that https://lists.wikimedia.org/robots.txt is rediculous. At least for technical lists we should let google in, and the privacy concern is silly as there are mirrors that are indexed.
The foundation is not responsible for, possibly illegal, behaviour of external parties. It's not silly to disallow copyrighted content on Commons just because you can find them on popular website which publish them illegaly.
-- bawolff
On Saturday, November 18, 2017, Sam Wilson sam@samwilson.id.au wrote:
Hear hear to being able to properly search past conversations.
I know it's not the fashionably geek thing to say, but I must admit that I always find mailing lists to be incredibly annoying, compared to forums. Not only is searching completely separate from reading, even browsing old topics is another interface again (assuming one hasn't been subscribed forever and kept every old message). Then, when you do manage to find an old message, there's no way to reply to it (short of copying and pasting and losing context).
Maybe https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk (and its sibling https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Current_issues ?) is the best place to ask questions about the software, its development, and other things. If so, let's make that fact much more well advertised! (Although, I think Flow is brilliant, when it's for discussing a wiki page — because the topic is already set (effectively by the title of the page its attached to). When it's trying to be a host to multiple unrelated topics, it becomes pretty annoying to use.)
On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, at 05:57 AM, Niharika Kohli wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
Not to mention ease of use. Discourse is way more usable than IRC or mailing lists. Usability is the main reason there are so many questions about MediaWiki asked on Stackoverflow instead: https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki https://stackoverflow.com/unanswered/tagged/mediawiki, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-api?sort=newest, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mediawiki-extensions...
I'd personally hope we can stop asking developers to go to IRC or mailing lists eventually and use Discourse/something else as a discussion forum for support.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi, I have expanded
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse#One_place_to_ seek_developer_support
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk is the only channel whose main purpose is to provide support. The volunteers maintaining
are
the ones to decide about its future. There is no rush for any decisions
there. First we need to run a successful pilot.
The rest of channels (like this mailing list) were created for
something
else. If these channels stop receiving questions from new developers,
they
will continue doing whatever they do now.
I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve matters.
For new developers arriving to our shores, being able to ask a first question about any topic in one place with a familiar UI is a big improvement over having to figure out a disseminated landscape of wiki
Talk
pages, mailing lists and IRC channels (especially if they are not used
to
any of these environments). The reason to propose this new space is
them,
not us.
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 5:01 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Brian Wolff wrote:
> On Friday, November 17, 2017, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote: > >> The Technical Collaboration team proposes the creation of a >> > developer
support channel focusing on newcomers, as part of our Onboarding
>> > New
Developer program. We are proposing to create a site based on
>> > Discourse
(starting with a pilot in discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org) and to >> > point
the many existing scattered channels there. >> > What does point existing channels to discouse mean exactly? Are you > planning to shutdown any existing channels? If so, which ones? > Excellent questions. I'd like to know the answers as well.
I raised a similar point at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Discourse. I skimmed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678, looking for some
answers,
and
I didn't find any.
Quim, are you involved in MediaWiki support in places such as the #mediawiki IRC channel or the mediawiki-l mailing list? Are you
involved
in MediaWiki support elsewhere? I'm trying to better understand how
it
would be appropriate for you to seemingly suggest disrupting or
shutting
down these established and functioning venues. If this is not your
suggestion, I'd like to understand how adding a venue will improve
matters.
MZMcBride
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Quim Gil Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Niharika Software Engineer Community Tech Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Niharika Kohli nkohli@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
No discussion system I've ever seen has managed to solve the problem of people asking the same question instead of searching for past replies. I'm skeptical that this new one will be any different.
Yes, the existing mailing lists have issues with searchability, although to a large extent that's due to a misguided robots.txt policy preventing the archives from being indexed in the first place.
I totally agree, that it's very unlikely, that we can solve the problem of having newcomers ask the same questions over and over again with a technical tool, however, it's probably easier for people who _wants_ to search before they ask, if they've the possibility to do so. This is most likely not all of the newcomers, but isn't it still worth it? :D
Best, Florian
-----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel Datum: 2017-11-19T23:41:29+0100 Von: "Brad Jorsch (Anomie)" bjorsch@wikimedia.org An: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Niharika Kohli nkohli@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout on the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot of repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
No discussion system I've ever seen has managed to solve the problem of people asking the same question instead of searching for past replies. I'm skeptical that this new one will be any different.
Yes, the existing mailing lists have issues with searchability, although to a large extent that's due to a misguided robots.txt policy preventing the archives from being indexed in the first place.
I am admin of a discourse community (https://discourse.opensourcedesign.net/) and could answer questions about its use, if you are interested.
Jan
2017-11-20 10:10 GMT+00:00 Florian Schmidt < florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de>:
I totally agree, that it's very unlikely, that we can solve the problem of having newcomers ask the same questions over and over again with a technical tool, however, it's probably easier for people who _wants_ to search before they ask, if they've the possibility to do so. This is most likely not all of the newcomers, but isn't it still worth it? :D
Best, Florian
-----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel Datum: 2017-11-19T23:41:29+0100 Von: "Brad Jorsch (Anomie)" bjorsch@wikimedia.org An: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Niharika Kohli nkohli@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you hangout
on
the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot
of
repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and effort.
No discussion system I've ever seen has managed to solve the problem of people asking the same question instead of searching for past replies. I'm skeptical that this new one will be any different.
Yes, the existing mailing lists have issues with searchability, although to a large extent that's due to a misguided robots.txt policy preventing the archives from being indexed in the first place.
-- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Senior Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l%EF%BB%BF
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Hi, just a note to say that a test Discourse instance with a Sandbox for all kinds of tests is available at https://discourse.wmflabs.org/c/Sandbox
This is an instance that Ad Huikeshoven and others set up almost a couple of years ago to explore Discourse as a complement to mailing lists ( https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124690). *This is not the instance where the developers support pilot will be run*, but it is just as good to test Discourse.
Thanks to Sam Wilson for resuscitating this instance, and to Ad and other promoters for setting it up in the first place.
On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Jan Dittrich jan.dittrich@wikimedia.de wrote:
I am admin of a discourse community (https://discourse. opensourcedesign.net/) and could answer questions about its use, if you are interested.
Jan
2017-11-20 10:10 GMT+00:00 Florian Schmidt < florian.schmidt.welzow@t-online.de>:
I totally agree, that it's very unlikely, that we can solve the problem
of
having newcomers ask the same questions over and over again with a technical tool, however, it's probably easier for people who _wants_ to search before they ask, if they've the possibility to do so. This is most likely not all of the newcomers, but isn't it still worth it? :D
Best, Florian
-----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for a developer support channel Datum: 2017-11-19T23:41:29+0100 Von: "Brad Jorsch (Anomie)" bjorsch@wikimedia.org An: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Niharika Kohli nkohli@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'd like to add that having Discourse will provide the one thing IRC channels and mailing lists fail to - search capabilities. If you
hangout
on
the #mediawiki IRC channel, you have probably noticed that we get a lot
of
repeat questions all the time. This would save everyone time and
effort.
No discussion system I've ever seen has managed to solve the problem of people asking the same question instead of searching for past replies.
I'm
skeptical that this new one will be any different.
Yes, the existing mailing lists have issues with searchability, although
to
a large extent that's due to a misguided robots.txt policy preventing the archives from being indexed in the first place.
-- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Senior Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l%EF%BB%BF
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
-- Jan Dittrich UX Design/ User Research
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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