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Re: [Wikitech-l] Reducing the...

Derric Atzrott

20 Feb 2014 20 Feb '14

6:56 p.m.

ICANN just delegated the gTLD .WIKI yesterday. It's being managed by Top Level Design, LLC. I'm not entirely sure what that means for all of us exactly, but I suspect that the WMF is going to want to at least register Wikipedia.wiki and Wikimedia.wiki once the gTLD is open for registration. Some of the new gTLDs are already opening up for registration. .sexy and .tattoo will be opening for registration on 25 February. It looks like if we want to get .wiki domains we will be getting them sometime in May or June during the "sunrise" period.[1] ICANN also has a full list of new gTLDs that they have approved.[2] Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology [1]: http://www.namejet.com/Pages/newtlds/tld/WIKI [2]: http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/delegated-strings

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Jeremy Baron

20 Feb 20 Feb

7:03 p.m.

On Feb 20, 2014 1:57 PM, "Derric Atzrott" <datzrott(a)alizeepathology.com> wrote:

...

ICANN just delegated the gTLD .WIKI yesterday. It's being managed by Top

Level

...

Design, LLC. I'm not entirely sure what that means for all of us

exactly, but I

...

suspect that the WMF is going to want to at least register Wikipedia.wiki

and

...

Wikimedia.wiki once the gTLD is open for registration.

I believe they were at Wikimania this past summer and we've definitely been in contact with them for some time now. -Jeremy

Quim Gil

8:24 p.m.

On 02/20/2014 10:56 AM, Derric Atzrott wrote:

...

I'm not entirely sure what that means for all of us exactly, but I suspect that the WMF is going to want to at least register Wikipedia.wiki and Wikimedia.wiki once the gTLD is open for registration.

I'm not even sure media.wiki is a good idea, but here goes the thought. -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

Erik Moeller

9:03 p.m.

We've been in discussions with Top Level Design, both to look into potentially appropriate uses (e.g. URL shorteners) and to prevent squatting of WMF trademarks. James points out that now there's .foundation there's some additional potential for mischief :P. Damn TLDs sprouting like mushrooms .. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Brion Vibber

9:51 p.m.

TLD proliferation is a scam by money-hungry registrars who want people to register (and thus pay) in multiple TLDs to "protect their brands". I recommend we boycott/ignore these various things and just avoid them, but I know we're going to end up registering a bunch for the "brand protection" (racket). -- brion On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Derric Atzrott < datzrott(a)alizeepathology.com> wrote:

...

Marc A. Pelletier

10:05 p.m.

On 02/20/2014 04:51 PM, Brion Vibber wrote:

...

TLD proliferation is a scam by money-hungry registrars who want people to register (and thus pay) in multiple TLDs to "protect their brands".

Well, the ostensible pretext is that .com. is now ridiculously overloaded with myovercomplicateddomain.com because all the meaningful "short" names are taken, and this is supposed to allow you to register in the "right" TLD only. Of course, that's not going to happen in practice as every TLD will be populated by all the people with .com domains for that reason. *sigh* Back in the days when I had "hack.com", I refused to pay money for it to Internic when they started to charge money (thanks, P&G!) as a sign of protest. Fat lot of good that did me -- or the dns. -- Marc

Jasper Deng

11:34 p.m.

One asks whether the Foundation would've asked for a .wikimedia tld when ICANN had that application period open (provided we actually could've afforded funds to pay the huge fees required). On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Marc A. Pelletier <marc(a)uberbox.org> wrote:

...

On 02/20/2014 04:51 PM, Brion Vibber wrote:

TLD proliferation is a scam by money-hungry registrars who want people to register (and thus pay) in multiple TLDs to "protect their brands".

Antoine Musso

21 Feb 21 Feb

12:23 a.m.

Le 20/02/2014 22:51, Brion Vibber a écrit :

...

To the lawyers around there: Can a trademark owner sue the registrar directly? After all it sold a product (the domain) using your trademark. (and yeah agree WMF should not get every possible domains floating around) -- Antoine "hashar" Musso

Luis Villa

12:25 a.m.

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

...

Le 20/02/2014 22:51, Brion Vibber a écrit :

but

I know we're going to end up registering a bunch for the "brand

protection"

(racket).

To the lawyers around there: Can a trademark owner sue the registrar directly? After all it sold a product (the domain) using your trademark.

Remember that "wiki" is not a WMF trademark :) But presumably if someone registered something like pedia.wiki we'd have a variety of tools to have to address the problem. Luis -- Luis Villa Deputy General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation 415.839.6885 ext. 6810 NOTICE: *This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity.*

Chad

2:23 a.m.

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Luis Villa <lvilla(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

Le 20/02/2014 22:51, Brion Vibber a écrit : > TLD proliferation is a scam by money-hungry registrars who want people

register (and thus pay) in multiple TLDs to "protect their brands". I recommend we boycott/ignore these various things and just avoid them,

but

I know we're going to end up registering a bunch for the "brand

protection"

(racket).

To the lawyers around there: Can a trademark owner sue the registrar directly? After all it sold a product (the domain) using your trademark.

Remember that "wiki" is not a WMF trademark :) But presumably if someone registered something like pedia.wiki we'd have a variety of tools to have to address the problem.

Or we could do like Brion suggests and completely ignore that .wiki and these other new gTLDs exist. -Chad

Antoine Musso

7:25 a.m.

Le 21/02/2014 01:25, Luis Villa a écrit :

...

Can a trademark owner sue the registrar directly? After all it sold a > product (the domain) using your trademark. >

Remember that "wiki" is not a WMF trademark :) But presumably if someone registered something like pedia.wiki we'd have a variety of tools to have to address the problem.

Sure! I was merely referring to people protecting their brands by buying domain in all TLDs. If I own the trademark "coca-cola" I would assume the registrar would not be able use (ie: sell a domain) without a license from me. -- Antoine "hashar" Musso

Jeremy Baron

8:31 p.m.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

...

If I own the trademark "coca-cola" I would assume the registrar would not be able use (ie: sell a domain) without a license from me.

I don't know about that. Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?) -Jeremy

Paul Dugas

9:19 p.m.

I believe there is a period of time before these TLDs go live when trademark holders are supposed to register and that they want to acquire. Wonder if that means they loose the rights when that period ends. Suspect not. On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Jeremy Baron <jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com> wrote:

...

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf(a)free.fr> wrote:

If I own the trademark "coca-cola" I would assume the registrar would not be able use (ie: sell a domain) without a license from me.

I don't know about that. Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?) -Jeremy _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

-- [image: logo] *Paul Dugas*, *Computer Engineer* Dugas Enterprises, LLC <http://www.dugasenterprises.com/> 522 Black Canyon Park, Canton, GA 30114 USA<http://maps.google.com/?q=522%20Black%20Canyon%20Park,%20Canton,%20G… t: 404-590-5159 *|* m: 404-932-1355 *|* m: paul(a)dugasenterprises.com *|* gtalk: paul(a)dugasenterprises.com

Chad

9:22 p.m.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Paul Dugas <paul(a)dugasenterprises.com>wrote;wrote:

...

Herein lies the probem: supposed to register. See Brion's earlier comment about this all being an awful scam. -Chad

Peter Kaminski

10:19 p.m.

Without getting into the value discussion, I wanted to note there's an official meta-registry called the Trademark Clearinghouse, in which owners of registered trademarks can block/reserve (as opposed to register) their marks in all the new gTLDs, so they don't get squatted. The protection fee at TMCH costs around $150/year/mark: http://trademark-clearinghouse.com/content/trademark-clearinghouse-fees I have an IP lawyer friend helping people with this new gTLD stuff if Wikimedia needs advice or help getting registered with the TMCH. Pete On 2/21/14, 13:22 PM, Chad wrote:

...

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Paul Dugas <paul(a)dugasenterprises.com>wrote;wrote:

Herein lies the probem: supposed to register. See Brion's earlier comment about this all being an awful scam. -Chad _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Yana Welinder

11:02 p.m.

Thanks Pete! We're already taking care of this. -- Yana Welinder Legal Counsel Wikimedia Foundation 415.839.6885 ext. 6867 On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Peter Kaminski <kaminski(a)istori.com> wrote:

...

wrote: I believe there is a period of time before these TLDs go live when

trademark holders are supposed to register and that they want to acquire. Wonder if that means they loose the rights when that period ends. Suspect not. Herein lies the probem: supposed to register. See Brion's earlier

comment about this all being an awful scam. -Chad _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Quinn

26 Mar 26 Mar

5:20 a.m.

Jeremy Baron wrote

...

Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?)

Duplicate the zone and add additional resource requirements (a slew of new server virtual host configurations) just for vanity? -- View this message in context: http://wikimedia.7.x6.nabble.com/wiki-gTLD-tp5022479p5024613.html Sent from the Wikipedia Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jeremy Baron

5:24 a.m.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Quinn <wood.quinn.s(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Jeremy Baron wrote

Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?)

Duplicate the zone and add additional resource requirements (a slew of new server virtual host configurations) just for vanity?

Your quote could use some more context. Whether it should be registered is irrelevant. That was about whether it *could* be. (or if it would be prevented because of the use of a trademark) -Jeremy

Quinn Wood

5:34 a.m.

Jeremy Baron wrote

...

Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?)

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Jeremy Baron <jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com> wrote:

...

Your quote could use some more context. Whether it should be registered is irrelevant. That was about whether it *could* be. (or if it would be prevented because of the use of a trademark)

If you were delegated authority for "startwars.wiki." by the operators of "wiki." and added "starwars.wiki. IN CNAME starwars.wikia.com." to your zone file, George Lucas and friends may attempt to prevent you from using the zone/record. I'd assume the closer your zone/record gets to the root the more of a chance they would have of convincing a judge that they needed to defend the trademark. WMF wouldn't have a say in the matter.

Jasper Deng

5:43 a.m.

Ultimately, registering .wiki names for Wikimedia wikis might improve accessibility to our wikis and further the concept of wikis in general, but (second-level) domain names aren't free (with few exceptions), so the foundation would have to take it up as an additional cost. On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Quinn Wood <wood.quinn.s(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Jeremy Baron wrote

Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?)

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Jeremy Baron <jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com> wrote:

Your quote could use some more context. Whether it should be registered is irrelevant. That was about whether it *could* be. (or if it would be prevented because of the use of a trademark)

VP Singh

7:30 a.m.

For the record media.wiki is registered by Top design LLC or reserved. You have to sue them to get the name or just ignore them. On 3/25/14, Jasper Deng <jasper(a)jasperswebsite.com> wrote:

...

Jeremy Baron wrote

Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in place?)

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Jeremy Baron <jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com> wrote:

Your quote could use some more context. Whether it should be registered is irrelevant. That was about whether it *could* be. (or if it would be prevented because of the use of a trademark)

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Derric Atzrott

2 Apr 2 Apr

6:06 p.m.

...

For the record media.wiki is registered by Top design LLC or reserved. You have to sue them to get the name or just ignore them.

My understanding from before was that the WMF was in talks with them about our trademarks. Erik had earlier stated: "We've been in discussions with Top Level Design, both to look into potentially appropriate uses (e.g. URL shorteners) and to prevent squatting of WMF trademarks." I imagine that this is just that in action. Thank you, Derric Atzrott

Gryllida

22 Feb 22 Feb

9:37 a.m.

That is a tough one, since most project names /start/ with "wiki". "pedia.wiki" just sounds awkward, as do many others. On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, at 5:56, Derric Atzrott wrote:

...

addshorewiki

10:17 a.m.

en.wiki data.wiki meta.wiki media.wiki en.books.wiki en.voyage.wiki Most of them sound rather plausible. Addshore That is a tough one, since most project names /start/ with "wiki". "pedia.wiki" just sounds awkward, as do many others. On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, at 5:56, Derric Atzrott wrote:

...

ICANN just delegated the gTLD .WIKI yesterday. It's being managed by Top

Level

...

Design, LLC. I'm not entirely sure what that means for all of us

exactly, but I

...

suspect that the WMF is going to want to at least register Wikipedia.wiki

and

...

Wikimedia.wiki once the gTLD is open for registration. Some of the new gTLDs are already opening up for registration. .sexy and .tattoo will be opening for registration on 25 February. It looks like if we want to get .wiki domains we will be getting them

sometime

...

in May or June during the "sunrise" period.[1] ICANN also has a full list of new gTLDs that they have approved.[2] Thank you, Derric Atzrott Computer Specialist Alizee Pathology [1]: http://www.namejet.com/Pages/newtlds/tld/WIKI [2]: http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/delegated-strings _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Anthony

7:12 p.m.

I wouldn't think any of those other than perhaps "media.wiki" would implicate a WMF trademark. As far as MediaWiki, WMF does claim a trademark on that. On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 5:17 AM, addshorewiki <addshorewiki(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

...

ICANN just delegated the gTLD .WIKI yesterday. It's being managed by Top

Level

Design, LLC. I'm not entirely sure what that means for all of us

exactly, but I

suspect that the WMF is going to want to at least register Wikipedia.wiki

and

sometime

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Quinn

26 Mar 26 Mar

5:17 a.m.

addshorewiki wrote

...

en.wiki data.wiki meta.wiki media.wiki en.books.wiki en.voyage.wiki

I plead with anyone willing to listen: do not jump on the temptation to have a dozen vanity domains for one person, project, or organization. One delegated zone from the top level zone is good enough. -- View this message in context: http://wikimedia.7.x6.nabble.com/wiki-gTLD-tp5022479p5024612.html Sent from the Wikipedia Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Manuel Schneider

22 Feb 22 Feb

11:38 a.m.

Am 22.02.2014 10:37, schrieb Gryllida:

...

That is a tough one, since most project names /start/ with "wiki". "pedia.wiki" just sounds awkward, as do many others.

right, let's get .pedia delegated to WMF. Also a way to make money ;-) SCNR. -- Manuel Schneider - Chief Information Officer Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Lausanne, +41 (21) 340 66 22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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participants (20)

addshorewiki
Anthony
Antoine Musso
Brion Vibber
Chad
Derric Atzrott
Erik Moeller
Gryllida
Jasper Deng
Jeremy Baron
Luis Villa
Manuel Schneider
Marc A. Pelletier
Paul Dugas
Peter Kaminski
Quim Gil
Quinn
Quinn Wood
VP Singh
Yana Welinder