On 11/12/13 22:21, Ryan Lane wrote: From a common (wiki) user standpoint, however, gerrit for instance might as well be a proprietary third party website as well - it's not easily accessible or directly connected to the wiki (different accounts, different interface, etc), so many of the same principles apply there too. This does support Matt's point, though - we all come into discussions with different perspectives, so if someone looks at it like a content editor and another looks at it like a platform developer, of course they might think the other is trolling because these perspectives can be so very different. We're not necessarily seeing or discussing the same things, and that's actually a good thing because it means we can cover the different sides of the problems better, but we do need to keep that in mind for it to work. -I

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:03 AM, Rob Lanphier <robla(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: people are accused of trolling, they are actually serious; and most of the times when people are trolling, they're taken seriously and no one expresses any suspicion that they were trolling.

On 11/12/13 23:28, Petr Bena wrote: This. When you get right down to it, what even is trolling? And should it necessarily matter? Even if someone is trolling, that doesn't mean they may not have a real point to it, though perhaps they could be more polite. Thing is, the most effective trolling is generally effective precisely /because/ they have a point - a point which may be somehow uncomfortable, something neglected or ignored or that the target doesn't want to admit for whatever reason, but if the point is relevant it often should be brought up. Unfortunately with such points bringing them in any way, no matter how politely, can potentially be called trolling. -L

Yeah, and at this very moment we are getting a "Bugzilla etiquette[1]" instead of improving a plain text explanation to bug submitters how our process works. //Saper [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Bugzilla_etiquette