On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
What do people think? This is also bug 5411.
Rob Church
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Rob Church wrote:
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
Yes!
Preferences are evil; they multiply code complexity, tech support burden, and the user's mental model of the site leading to more mistakes made.
New preferences should very rarely be added.
- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
On 18/12/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Yes!
Normally I get "what a stupid idea", "you retard" and other colourful phrases (not necessarily from Brion).
Preferences are evil; they multiply code complexity, tech support burden, and the user's mental model of the site leading to more mistakes made.
It's gone as of r18435.
Rob Church
On 12/19/06, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com wrote:
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
I concur. It doesn't make sense for patrollers' edits to be considered patrollable as well - it just adds to workload.
Steve
'''Support'''! I can't think of any reason this would ever need to NOT be set in the wikimedia setting.
en:xaosflux
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Church" robchur@gmail.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: [Wikitech-l] Auto-patrol preference
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
What do people think? This is also bug 5411.
Rob Church _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
there was a huge fuss when the feature was introduced on nl: :)
henna
On 12/19/06, xaosflux xaosflux@gmail.com wrote:
'''Support'''! I can't think of any reason this would ever need to NOT be set in the wikimedia setting.
en:xaosflux
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Church" robchur@gmail.com To: "Wikimedia developers" wikitech-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 3:22 PM Subject: [Wikitech-l] Auto-patrol preference
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
What do people think? This is also bug 5411.
Rob Church _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 19/12/06, henna henna@wikipedia.be wrote:
there was a huge fuss when the feature was introduced on nl: :)
Perhaps if Patroller ever makes it live, you'll have something else to fuss over...
Rob Church
On 19/12/06, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com wrote:
On 19/12/06, henna henna@wikipedia.be wrote:
there was a huge fuss when the feature was introduced on nl: :)
I've been advised that this change is causing problems on projects where all autoconfirmed users are allowed to mark changes patrolled, since it's negating the effects of recent changes patrol for users older than four days.
I'm not sure what the most effective cure for this would be, to be honest; I would think it more appropriate to restrict patrolling back up to administrators. Of course, if we had a nice new interface for assigning permissions, then we could probably create a "patrollers" group and have done with it.
Rob Church
On 12/19/06, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com wrote:
On 19/12/06, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com wrote:
On 19/12/06, henna henna@wikipedia.be wrote:
there was a huge fuss when the feature was introduced on nl: :)
I've been advised that this change is causing problems on projects where all autoconfirmed users are allowed to mark changes patrolled, since it's negating the effects of recent changes patrol for users older than four days.
I'm not sure what the most effective cure for this would be, to be honest; I would think it more appropriate to restrict patrolling back up to administrators. Of course, if we had a nice new interface for assigning permissions, then we could probably create a "patrollers" group and have done with it.
I'm seriously in favor of creating a group with patrollers rights, preferably something that you get automatically (like autoconfirmed, but longer), but that you can be trown out from easily when patrolling the wrong stuff. For this we would need a record of who patrolled what tho.
henna
On 12/20/06, henna henna@wikipedia.be wrote:
I'm seriously in favor of creating a group with patrollers rights, preferably something that you get automatically (like autoconfirmed, but longer), but that you can be trown out from easily when patrolling the wrong stuff. For this we would need a record of who patrolled what tho.
Yeah. There are squillions of trustworthy users who perform de facto patrolling but for various reasons aren't admins.
I'm one. :)
Steve
On 12/18/06, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com wrote:
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
What do people think? This is also bug 5411.
And you propose this just one week after I managed to make Anthere toggle her edits on meta to automatically marked as patrolled... :)
2006/12/18, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com:
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
I'm wondering whether or not it would have been a better idea for me to simply make this the default behaviour, and do away with the toggle altogether; it certainly makes more sense now, on reflection.
What do people think? This is also bug 5411.
Recent changes patrol is on on Dutch Wikipedia, and auto-patrolling edits is very much frowned upon there. You would get more agreement on a change where noone can check their own edits as patrolled than on a change where people do this automatically.
Andre Engels wrote:
2006/12/18, Rob Church robchur@gmail.com:
On wikis where recent changes patrol ($wgUseRCPatrol) is enabled, users who are permitted to mark edits as patrolled (administrators, usually) have an additional user preference; when enabled, this causes their edits to be automatically marked as patrolled. I added this some time ago.
What do people think? This is also bug 5411.
Recent changes patrol is on on Dutch Wikipedia, and auto-patrolling edits is very much frowned upon there. You would get more agreement on a change where noone can check their own edits as patrolled than on a change where people do this automatically.
Right. I believe it rather comes down to how patrolling is being used on each project. _If_ we assume that all patrollers are implicitly trusted (say, admins), _and_ that patrollers are only expected to check for problems that any trusted user will always recognize (say, blatant vandalism), then it makes sense for the edits of patrollers to be marked as patrolled, since we trust them and expect them to recognize any potential problems in their own edits.
However, if we're allowing potentially untrusted users to patrol (on the assumption that most of them are still trustworthy, and that having one untrustworthy user patrol the edit of another is even less likely), or if we're expecting patrollers to check for mistakes that even generally trusted users might make in good faith, then it certainly doesn't make sense to allow, let alone force, users to patrol their own edits.
The former situation apparently holds on Meta, the latter on the Dutch Wikipedia. Perhaps the solution is to make this a project-wide setting, rather than a per-user one.
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