Please preload a space in the page for the banner - Wikitech-l

Roan Kattouw

20 Nov 20 Nov

12:42 p.m.

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect.

CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). Roan

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Russell Nelson

21 Nov 21 Nov

12:17 a.m.

Perhaps we should keep the banner space there during the time of the fundraiser, and if the person requests to not see Jimmy, then show them Brandon. And if Brandon makes them unhappy (as if!), they could switch to seeing pretty panorama photos. I'll contribute this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelson/5843684817/ On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:

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On 20/11/11 22:42, Roan Kattouw wrote:

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect.

CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching).

If you hard code a space into the cached HTML, there will be no way to turn off the banner via cookies. You'd have the opposite problem, a blank space would appear and then disappear after a few seconds. Maybe we could have a <script> tag in the <head> that modifies the relevant stylesheet rules based on cookies present. -- Tim Starling _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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K. Peachey

12:43 p.m.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Hell no! When I say "I don't wanna see any fundraiser banners", it means "i don't wanna see ANY banners related to the fundraiser, no mater how pretty they look". Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. You should respect your "no ads" policy even for your own ads. :)

I think Russell forgot his sarcasm tags in the email :p

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Jay Ashworth

7:53 p.m.

----- Original Message -----

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From: jidanni(a)jidanni.org

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>>>> "S" == Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com> writes:

S> Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list.

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No wonder Wikipedia ads are so irritating (besides making babies cry), they are the only ads on the net one still sees these days, http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+banner+fundraiser+adblockplus

Wow.... the sense of (unwarranted) entitlement among most of those comments complaining about this policy is just... breathtaking. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra(a)baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

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Jeremy Baron

8:43 p.m.

On Nov 21, 2011 1:48 PM, <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> wrote:

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>>>> "S" == Strainu <strainu10(a)gmail.com> writes:

S> Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. No wonder Wikipedia ads are so irritating (besides making babies cry), they are the only ads on the net one still sees these days, http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+banner+fundraiser+adblockplus

This one's for Ariel: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-…

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Jay Ashworth

9:35 p.m.

----- Original Message -----

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From: jidanni(a)jidanni.org

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Doing this doesn't work, and never did. Creepy Jimmy, with his "come to my van, child" eyes invariably comes back, like a particularly nasty genital infection, within 2 days at most.

Ok, JL? That is *right* around the bend to "making you look worse than you think he is", "projecting", and probably actionable for libel in the bargain. Please stop now. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra(a)baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

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Russell Nelson

11:20 p.m.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:33 PM, <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> wrote:

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>>>> "JB" == Jeremy Baron <jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com> writes:

JB> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-… Naw, http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-… + [8861] Rachel says: 27 Nov 2010 at 11:04 am Doing this doesn't work, and never did. Creepy Jimmy, with his "come to my van, child" eyes invariably comes back, like a particularly nasty genital infection, within 2 days at most.

Indeed, Rachel is much nastier. She even got a personal reply from Neal. Some people are beyond helping...

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Arthur Richards

11:38 p.m.

Getting back on track here... There's already a bug open for this issue in bugzilla ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234). Relative to the current priorities for fundraiser engineering, this is pretty low. But if someone outside of the team wanted to take a stab at resolving this, we could potentially roll out a fix much quicker :) Also, Kaldari started a page on wikitech for brainstorming ways to cope with the issue ( http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/CentralNotice/Optimizing_banner_loading). The ideas currently on that list focus more on speeding up the actual loading of the banner rather than totally getting read of the page jumping problem. If you have other thoughts on the matter, feel free to add them to the list. Tim/Roan, I'm going ahead and adding your suggestions to the list. Thanks! Arthur On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:

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On 20/11/11 22:42, Roan Kattouw wrote:

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect.

CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching).

If you hard code a space into the cached HTML, there will be no way to turn off the banner via cookies. You'd have the opposite problem, a blank space would appear and then disappear after a few seconds. Maybe we could have a <script> tag in the <head> that modifies the relevant stylesheet rules based on cookies present. -- Tim Starling _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

-- Arthur Richards Software Engineer Fundraising/Features/Offline/Mobile [[User:Awjrichards]] IRC: awjr +1-415-839-6885 x6687

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Peter Gehres

22 Nov 22 Nov

1:14 a.m.

FWIW, we have pretty much standardized on a banner height of 172px and, to my knowledge, have no plans to modify that. If we did, it would get smaller and not larger. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari(a)wikimedia.org>wrote;wrote:

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This has already been hashed out technically, and is doable. The only issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size, which I've tried for the past few months to get people to agree on, but with no luck. In order for this to work we need a benevolent dictator (Zach?, Erik?) to state that all banners (including chapter banners) need to be a certain height during the fundraiser. As it's not a high priority issue currently, I'm not sure if there's any likelihood of that actually happening. If people want to discuss further, the bug is at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234 Ryan Kaldari On 11/20/11 3:42 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote:

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard<dgerard(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect.

CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). Roan

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Peter Gehres

1:33 a.m.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:18 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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On 22 November 2011 00:14, Peter Gehres <lists(a)pgehres.com> wrote:

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari(a)wikimedia.org wrote:

> This has already been hashed out technically, and is doable. The only > issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size, which I've > tried for the past few months to get people to agree on, but with no > luck. In order for this to work we need a benevolent dictator (Zach?, > Erik?) to state that all banners (including chapter banners) need to be > a certain height during the fundraiser. As it's not a high priority > issue currently, I'm not sure if there's any likelihood of that actually > happening. > If people want to discuss further, the bug is at: > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234

FWIW, we have pretty much standardized on a banner height of 172px and,

to

my knowledge, have no plans to modify that. If we did, it would get smaller and not larger.

That doesn't appear to square with Ryan's statement. Is the banner height really 172px, i.e. will a 172px preloaded space really solve the problem? - d.

I am in a better position to comment about banner size than Kaldari. It's not necessarily a good solution as we plan to bring the banners down for logged in users fairly soon. I assume that they would rather not have the jump in the reverse direction :-) I'm sure that we could have two separate pre-loaded empty divs (one for anon, and one for logged in) but that still does not account for project, language, and country variations. Additionally, it has yet to be determined whether or not reserving the space has an effect on click rate. I could see reasons why it could effect it both positively and negatively. - Peter

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jidanni＠jidanni.org

15 Mar 15 Mar

2:42 a.m.

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>>>> "H" == Helder <helder.wiki(a)gmail.com> writes: > A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This > pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top > of the page, the banner grabs it instead.

And also further down the page, we aim for link 32, and as our finger presses down, link 33 or 34 is slid under our mouse instead!

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