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Magnus Manske

23 Mar 2004 23 Mar '04

4:35 p.m.

What's up with the en being down (pardon the pun)? I can reach de quite well. Magnus

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Gabriel Wicke

23 Mar 23 Mar

5:45 p.m.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:35:41 +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:

What's up with the en being down (pardon the pun)? I can reach de quite well.

Long story short: the colo blocked the ip en points to because they thought wikipedia was a spam business.. Everything was fine, just the traffic to 207.142.131.236 was missing. -- Gabriel Wicke

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Brion Vibber

5:52 p.m.

On Mar 23, 2004, at 08:45, Gabriel Wicke wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:35:41 +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:

What's up with the en being down (pardon the pun)? I can reach de quite well.

Long story short: the colo blocked the ip en points to because they thought wikipedia was a spam business.. Everything was fine, just the traffic to 207.142.131.236 was missing.

Would they mind telling us why? -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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Gabriel Wicke

6 p.m.

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:52:44 -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:

Would they mind telling us why?

Apparently some nigerian spam business sent mails with a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent-Desire_Kabila, that triggered a semi-automatic blocking system that sent a few mails that got lost (as spam). Without reply they just went ahead and blocked the ip. -- Gabriel Wicke

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Magnus Manske

6:59 p.m.

First the print media, then TV, and now the Nigerian spammers. Wikipedia has finally made it! I'm so proud... ;-) Gabriel Wicke wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:52:44 -0800, Brion Vibber wrote:

Would they mind telling us why?

Apparently some nigerian spam business sent mails with a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurent-Desire_Kabila, that triggered a semi-automatic blocking system that sent a few mails that got lost (as spam). Without reply they just went ahead and blocked the ip.

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Anthere

7:49 p.m.

Magnus Manske a écrit:

First the print media, then TV, and now the Nigerian spammers. Wikipedia has finally made it! I'm so proud... ;-)

ROFL

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Jimmy Wales

8:55 p.m.

I'm working with people at the colo to make sure that this never never happens again. Gabriel Wicke wrote:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:35:41 +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:

What's up with the en being down (pardon the pun)? I can reach de quite well.

Long story short: the colo blocked the ip en points to because they thought wikipedia was a spam business.. Everything was fine, just the traffic to 207.142.131.236 was missing. -- Gabriel Wicke _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Guillaume Blanchard

24 Mar 24 Mar

5:51 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

Hi all, I developed a PHP program (named WikiHiero) to convert text wrote according to the "Hieroglyphs coding manual" (international standard for typing hieroglyph text on computer) syntax into HTML tables using a set of image (no image generation like TeX). I'd like to add this program into Wikimedia software that we can easily use hieroglyphs in Wikipedia, WikiSource and Wikitionary. We need a new tag (for example [[hiero:]]) then send to the WikiHiero program the text into that tags. This program create a string with HTML tags (<table> and <img>) we can print (echo) into the page during parsing. [[hiero:w-i-k-i-p:d-i-a]] => echo WikiHiero("w-i-k-i-p:d-i-a"); I put a test version of WikiHiero at http://aoineko.free.fr. You can, for example, try to type w-i-k-i-p:d-i-a, your name, or what you want ;o) ('-' is for block separation and ':' for glyph superposition). I personally planed to use it in Wikipedia, but there are many hieroglyph texts available we may add to WikiSource (if under a free licence). The set of image contain about 1000 small PNG pictures for a total size of about 1 Mb. I didn't tune yet the program, but I think parsing time is inconsequential for small text (I avoid all file check by creating pre-calculate tables). I'm sure we can make many speed improvements, but I think this version is quick enough to be added to Wikimedia. Any advices to speed process are welcome. I add an option to output hieroglyph as text (for text only browser) using the glyph phonemes. Ypu can test it on http://aoineko.free.fr by choosing the "Text only" mode. The better may be to add an option into preference (like TeX) to choose the render method. The program is under GFDL (I didn't released source yet because I want to comment them first) and hieroglyphs pictures author authorized me to put them under GFDL. Aoineko

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Guillaume Blanchard

25 Mar 25 Mar

10:13 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

My "wonderful" tool doesn't seem to interest developers. :o( I really like to add it to Mediawiki, so if you have any objections, please give me good reasons. Indifference is worse than refusal. If you have no objections, I'd like to first add it to http://test.wikipedia.org. Can I get root access to the test site? Or a developer agrees to help install my tool? Please take a look at : http://aoineko.free.fr Aoineko PS: Looking at "Parser.php", I think my tool integration may be very easy if I can use a namespace (like [[hiero:xxx]]). From: "Guillaume Blanchard"

Hi all, I developed a PHP program (named WikiHiero) to convert text wrote

according

to the "Hieroglyphs coding manual" (international standard for typing hieroglyph text on computer) syntax into HTML tables using a set of image (no image generation like TeX). I'd like to add this program into Wikimedia software that we can easily

use

hieroglyphs in Wikipedia, WikiSource and Wikitionary. We need a new tag

(for

example [[hiero:]]) then send to the WikiHiero program the text into that tags. This program create a string with HTML tags (<table> and <img>) we

can

print (echo) into the page during parsing. [[hiero:w-i-k-i-p:d-i-a]] => echo WikiHiero("w-i-k-i-p:d-i-a"); I put a test version of WikiHiero at http://aoineko.free.fr. You can, for example, try to type w-i-k-i-p:d-i-a, your name, or what you want ;o) ('-' is for block separation and ':' for glyph superposition). I personally planed to use it in Wikipedia, but there are many hieroglyph texts available we may add to WikiSource (if under a free licence). The set of image contain about 1000 small PNG pictures for a total size of about 1 Mb. I didn't tune yet the program, but I think parsing time is inconsequential for small text (I avoid all file check by creating pre-calculate tables). I'm sure we can make many speed improvements, but I think this version is quick enough to be added to Wikimedia. Any advices to speed process are welcome. I add an option to output hieroglyph as text (for text only browser) using the glyph phonemes. Ypu can test it on http://aoineko.free.fr by choosing the "Text only" mode. The better may be to add an option into preference (like TeX) to choose the render method. The program is under GFDL (I didn't released source yet because I want to comment them first) and hieroglyphs pictures author authorized me to put them under GFDL. Aoineko _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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E23

11:55 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

We need to decide on the <rend type="hiero">xxx</rend> vs. <hiero>xxx</hiero> issue so we can start implementing all kinds of nice features like this. I vote for the latter. Or did I miss when this was decided? // E23 Guillaume Blanchard gblanchard-at-arcsy.co.jp |wikipedia| wrote:

My "wonderful" tool doesn't seem to interest developers. :o( I really like to add it to Mediawiki, so if you have any objections, please give me good reasons. Indifference is worse than refusal. If you have no objections, I'd like to first add it to http://test.wikipedia.org. Can I get root access to the test site? Or a developer agrees to help install my tool? Please take a look at : http://aoineko.free.fr

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Guillaume Blanchard

1:53 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

From: "E23"

We need to decide on the <rend type="hiero">xxx</rend> vs. <hiero>xxx</hiero> issue so we can start implementing all kinds of nice features like this. I vote for the latter. Or did I miss when this was decided? // E23

I also prefer the last (more simple for non-programmers). Can someone tell me how can I test my stuff on test.wikipedia?

Guillaume Blanchard gblanchard-at-arcsy.co.jp |wikipedia| wrote: >My "wonderful" tool doesn't seem to interest developers. :o( >I really like to add it to Mediawiki, so if you have any objections,

please

give me good reasons. Indifference is worse than refusal. If you have no objections, I'd like to first add it to http://test.wikipedia.org. Can I get root access to the test site? Or a developer agrees to help install my tool? Please take a look at : http://aoineko.free.fr

_______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Luc Van Oostenryck

7:23 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

Guillaume Blanchard wrote:

From: "E23"

We need to decide on the <rend type="hiero">xxx</rend> vs. <hiero>xxx</hiero> issue so we can start implementing all kinds of nice features like this. I vote for the latter. Or did I miss when this was decided? // E23

I also prefer the last (more simple for non-programmers). Can someone tell me how can I test my stuff on test.wikipedia?

Yes, the second one is consistent with <table>, <math> & so on. -- Looxix

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Timwi

28 Mar 28 Mar

9:03 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

Luc Van Oostenryck wrote:

Guillaume Blanchard wrote:

From: "E23"

We need to decide on the <rend type="hiero">xxx</rend> vs. <hiero>xxx</hiero> issue so we can start implementing all kinds of nice features like this. I vote for the latter. Or did I miss when this was decided? // E23

I also prefer the last (more simple for non-programmers). Can someone tell me how can I test my stuff on test.wikipedia?

Yes, the second one is consistent with <table>, <math> & so on.

That alone doesn't make it simpler for non-programmers. I've already mentioned in the past that I gravely dislike <math>...</math> because it is very awkward to type and very un-wiki. Now adding <hiero>...</hiero> only makes it worse. Why duplicate the word "hiero" anyway? It's not like we're going to nest a hiero inside a math or vice-versa. So, I still maintain that a much more sensical syntax would be something like (this is just an example): [!math x^2 + y^2 = z^2 !] [!hiero b-l:a-h !] I had previously even advocated to use, say, [[!...!]] for maths and then perhaps [[^...^]], [[#...#]] etc. for other things in order to avoid anglocentrism, but I suppose that is a lost cause. Timwi

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Tomasz Wegrzanowski

10:02 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

On Sun, Mar 28, 2004 at 08:03:36AM +0100, Timwi wrote:

Yes, the second one is consistent with <table>, <math> & so on.

That alone doesn't make it simpler for non-programmers. I've already mentioned in the past that I gravely dislike <math>...</math> because it is very awkward to type and very un-wiki. Now adding <hiero>...</hiero> only makes it worse. Why duplicate the word "hiero" anyway? It's not like we're going to nest a hiero inside a math or vice-versa. So, I still maintain that a much more sensical syntax would be something like (this is just an example): [!math x^2 + y^2 = z^2 !] [!hiero b-l:a-h !] I had previously even advocated to use, say, [[!...!]] for maths and then perhaps [[^...^]], [[#...#]] etc. for other things in order to avoid anglocentrism, but I suppose that is a lost cause.

math is just a word - [[!...%^$#%$#%]] is a string of random characters. Guess which one is easier ?

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Timwi

11:30 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:

math is just a word - [[!...%^$#%$#%]] is a string of random characters. Guess which one is easier ?

... Sorry? Could you translate that into English for me? Where did I write "[[!...%^$#%$#%]]"? What are you referring to as "easier"? [!...!] is certainly easier to type than <math>...</math>, and no less easier to remember. "math" is just a word, yes, but "<math>...</math>" is more than just "math", and more than [!...!] too.

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Guillaume Blanchard

3:14 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

From: "Timwi"

Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:

math is just a word - [[!...%^$#%$#%]] is a string of random characters. Guess which one is easier ?

... Sorry? Could you translate that into English for me? Where did I write "[[!...%^$#%$#%]]"? What are you referring to as "easier"? [!...!] is certainly easier to type than <math>...</math>, and no less easier to remember. "math" is just a word, yes, but "<math>...</math>" is more than just "math", and more than [!...!] too.

What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific names)? Aoineko

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Nicolas Weeger

3:14 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific names)?

IMO language-specific names are even worse. Right now you can copy & paste a page from/to any Wikipedia (short of metaspace name, granted), and it'll work fine. Translating special keywords would require translating in case of copy/paste. Just my 2 cents

Aoineko

Ryo

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Nikola Smolenski

10:23 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

On Sunday 28 March 2004 15:14, Nicolas Weeger wrote:

What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific names)?

IMO language-specific names are even worse. Right now you can copy & paste a page from/to any Wikipedia (short of metaspace name, granted), and it'll work fine. Translating special keywords would require translating in case of copy/paste.

Not if any Wikipedia is able to use all keywords. I doubt that there will ever be a clash.

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Timwi

30 Mar 30 Mar

3:13 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

Nicolas Weeger wrote:

What about {{math: ...}} and {{hiero: ...}} (with language specific names)?

IMO language-specific names are even worse. Right now you can copy & paste a page from/to any Wikipedia (short of metaspace name, granted), and it'll work fine.

Not really. You have to translate the page into the target language either way.

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Jens Frank

26 Mar 26 Mar

7:47 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 01:51:15PM +0900, Guillaume Blanchard wrote:

I add an option to output hieroglyph as text (for text only browser) using the glyph phonemes. Ypu can test it on http://aoineko.free.fr by choosing the "Text only" mode. The better may be to add an option into preference (like TeX) to choose the render method.

Can we, to keep the preferences small, assume that whoever wants to have text formulas is using a text browser and wants text hieroglyphs, too?

The program is under GFDL (I didn't released source yet because I want to comment them first) and hieroglyphs pictures author authorized me to put them under GFDL.

GFDL is not compatible with the GPL. To include the code into MediaWiki, the code must be released under a compatible license, like GPL, LGPL, Public Domain, etc. I would volunteer to include hieroglyph support into the new parser, this will not affect performance when there are no hieroglyphs in the code. Can you release a first draft of the code tonight? Best regards, jens frank

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Guillaume Blanchard

8:43 a.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

From: "Jens Frank"

Can we, to keep the preferences small, assume that whoever wants to have text formulas is using a text browser and wants text hieroglyphs, too?

Does it mean no user preference and automatically choose text/image render by detecting browser type? It may be sufficient for now. By the way, to reduce preferences page size, it may be a good idea to use menu box (<select>) instead of radio button list. Like this LaTeX option may be only 1 line long. But perhaps, text browser can't use <select> tag? Or what do you think about have a "preference page" and an "advanced preference page"?

GFDL is not compatible with the GPL. To include the code into MediaWiki, the code must be released under a compatible license, like GPL, LGPL, Public Domain, etc.

Ho! I didn't know. So, consider the program is under GPL and pictures under GFDL.

I would volunteer to include hieroglyph support into the new parser, this will not affect performance when there are no hieroglyphs in the code. Can you release a first draft of the code tonight?

Thanks! I will annotate the source and send it to you (or to this list?) shortly. I already send an uncommented version to E23, to have his opinion about code. Cheers, Guillaume Blanchard (Aoineko)

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Guillaume Blanchard

12:42 p.m.

New subject: WikiHiero is here !!

Ok, I released a "clean" version of WikiHiero. It can be download from my test server: http://aoineko.free.fr/index.php?lang=en Or directly: http://aoineko.free.fr/wikihiero.rar (811.71 Kb) http://aoineko.free.fr/wikihiero.zip (1.16 Mb) Regards, Aoineko ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jens Frank" <JeLuF(a)gmx.de> To: "Wikimedia developers" <wikitech-l(a)Wikipedia.org> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] WikiHiero is here !!

On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 01:51:15PM +0900, Guillaume Blanchard wrote: > > I add an option to output hieroglyph as text (for text only browser)

using

> the glyph phonemes. Ypu can test it on http://aoineko.free.fr by

choosing

the "Text only" mode. The better may be to add an option into preference (like TeX) to choose the render method.

Can we, to keep the preferences small, assume that whoever wants to have text formulas is using a text browser and wants text hieroglyphs, too? > The program is under GFDL (I didn't released source yet because I want

to

comment them first) and hieroglyphs pictures author authorized me to put them under GFDL.

GFDL is not compatible with the GPL. To include the code into MediaWiki, the code must be released under a compatible license, like GPL, LGPL, Public Domain, etc. I would volunteer to include hieroglyph support into the new parser, this will not affect performance when there are no hieroglyphs in the code. Can you release a first draft of the code tonight? Best regards, jens frank _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)Wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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21 comments

13 participants

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participants (13)

Anthere
Brion Vibber
E23
Gabriel Wicke
Guillaume Blanchard
Jens Frank
Jimmy Wales
Luc Van Oostenryck
Magnus Manske
Nicolas Weeger
Nikola Smolenski
Timwi
Tomasz Wegrzanowski