Quite easy to reproduce: Go to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l Click on any item in the "downloadable version" column, say the one for december 2006. It's a link to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/2006-December.txt And htdig (?) then tells you "No such list 2006-december.txt". However, it should probably link to http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2006-December.txt as does http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ (to anticipate a response: Yes, I guess the very first link might not really be a good start page to browse the archive, yes, you should rather use the second one with the pipermail in it, yes, only the second one is linked. But still, as it delivers intelligible output, the links should be correct).
Michael
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Michael Bimmler wrote:
Quite easy to reproduce: Go to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l
You're at the wrong place, you want to be at: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/
- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
On 12/12/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
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Michael Bimmler wrote:
Quite easy to reproduce: Go to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l
You're at the wrong place, you want to be at: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/
And I thought, I couldn't emphasize the anticipated-response-bit more... Yes, I know, that I most likely wouldn't be there. But if I for some reason go to this page (maybe somebody gave me this wrong link) and if there appears neither a 404 error nor a 403 error nor a 501 error, I should also be able to expect the links not to be broken.
Michael
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Michael Bimmler wrote:
Michael Bimmler wrote:
Quite easy to reproduce: Go to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l
You're at the wrong place, you want to be at: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/
And I thought, I couldn't emphasize the anticipated-response-bit more... Yes, I know, that I most likely wouldn't be there. But if I for some reason go to this page (maybe somebody gave me this wrong link) and if there appears neither a 404 error nor a 403 error nor a 501 error, I should also be able to expect the links not to be broken.
Bluhhh, sorry, brainfart. :P
Ok, the fun thing:
When you follow links from the search engine results you end up at individual message links through htdig's dir like here: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l/2003-November/008257.html
All the archive links in there seem to work ok... _but_ if you strip off too much from the URL you might find yourself at pseudo-directories like this: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l/2003-November
where you're actually supposed to be here: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l/2003-November/
With the final / missing, the relative links in the HTML go bonkers. With it present, everything works fine.
Now when going directly to the pipermail URLs: http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November
you get forwarded straight to the right place: http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November/
and everything works.
Possible solution options: * tell people not to go to the wrong links ;) * hack the mailman htdig interface to forward correctly * hack the mailman htdig interface to just send to the regular pipermail urls (why doesn't it by default?) * rip out the whole archive system with something that actually works the way we'd like it in the first place ;)
- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
On 12/13/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote: <snip wise (no irony here!) explanations about the importance of final '/'> right. Same is also true, if you strip the month part ('2003-November')as well.
Possible solution options:
- tell people not to go to the wrong links ;)
Well, I don't think the page in question is anywhere linked. I myself only discovered it because I was 1. looking at a message found by htdig 2. wanting to go to the list archive 3. thinking I could do so by just removing the month and msg-id bit, as this works in the pipermail-environment. Let's say, this one is the zero-budget and zero-time solution ;)
- hack the mailman htdig interface to forward correctly
- hack the mailman htdig interface to just send to the regular pipermail
urls (why doesn't it by default?)
Hm, if anybody considers hacking the interface (no idea how difficult this is), I'd prefer this option. Can't give a really good reason, though, I just think it looks nicer if there is only one archive page (/pipermail/...) and not a nominally separate archive (/htdig/...)
- rip out the whole archive system with something that actually works
the way we'd like it in the first place ;)
Okay, this is probably the opposite of the first one... Might be bit of an utopia though. Michael
Brion Vibber wrote:
Michael Bimmler wrote:
Quite easy to reproduce: Go to http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l
You're at the wrong place, you want to be at: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/
Brion,
I realise you may have a busy day or whatever, but that's really no excuse for replying to an e-mail (or posting) without reading it.
Can you please make http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l return a 404 or some other error if it's not supposed to be correct?
Timwi
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:41:57PM +0000, Timwi wrote:
Can you please make http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l return a 404 or some other error if it's not supposed to be correct?
Well, perhaps there was a transient failure. That URL returns the Archive index page to me now.
Cheers, -- jra
On 12/13/06, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:41:57PM +0000, Timwi wrote:
Can you please make http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l return a 404 or some other error if it's not supposed to be correct?
Well, perhaps there was a transient failure. That URL returns the Archive index page to me now.
Sure it returns the same output as http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/pipermail/wikien-l but with broken links. Michael
Cheers,
-- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates The Things I Think '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 07:54:30PM +0100, Michael Bimmler wrote:
On 12/13/06, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:41:57PM +0000, Timwi wrote:
Can you please make http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l return a 404 or some other error if it's not supposed to be correct?
Well, perhaps there was a transient failure. That URL returns the Archive index page to me now.
Sure it returns the same output as http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/pipermail/wikien-l but with broken links.
So it does, but "please make the URL return 404 *instead of a page witn inoperative links" is a different trouble report.
:-)
And indeed, the URL with *pipermail* in it currently *is* returning 404.
Cheers, -- jra
On 12/13/06, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 07:54:30PM +0100, Michael Bimmler wrote:
On 12/13/06, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:41:57PM +0000, Timwi wrote:
Can you please make http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l return a 404 or some other error if it's not supposed to be correct?
Well, perhaps there was a transient failure. That URL returns the Archive index page to me now.
Sure it returns the same output as http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/pipermail/wikien-l but with broken links.
So it does, but "please make the URL return 404 *instead of a page witn inoperative links" is a different trouble report.
well. My original report was "please fix the links". Brion then said, this page shouldn't be used. So Timwi said "please make it return 404".
:-)
And indeed, the URL with *pipermail* in it currently *is* returning 404.
Yes, you have to strike the 'mailman' bit out of it. http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/ works. Michael
Cheers,
-- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates The Things I Think '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
On 13/12/06, Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com wrote:
And indeed, the URL with *pipermail* in it currently *is* returning 404.
For our next trick, ladies and gentlemen, we will be altering mailman to zap spammers. Watch this space...
Rob Church
wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org