--- Erik Moeller erik_moeller@gmx.de wrote:
Anthere- Look, we both agree that the current English logo sucks, OK?
I would not have been so...:-)
So basing an
argument against a largely similar logo among all Wikipedias on the current logo is really not very fair. I have not voiced any objections to the French Wikipedia coming up with their own logo because it is reasonable for you to choose a French logo over an English one, but I would have preferred it if you had made an effort to push for a new, international logo instead.
Just a word there I wonder if the "you" is general, or if it is "me". If me, I will just indicate here that the logo was changed less than a month after I got under my name on the fr wiki. It was not discussed. We were few at that time, so one editor just designed a logo, and send it to Jason to have it placed. He then raised an uproar becaues Jason hesitated to immediately place it, without Jimbo aggrement.
As far as I remember, this lead to 1) noise on the international list 2) one of my first mail to the mailing list to try to explain where that change came from (I was also wondering, I found it http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/intlwiki-l/2002-June/000459.html) 3) a lot of noise afterward on the french wiki, because that had been done without discussion before hand
Afterhand, we decided to keep it :-) Two times, there were some discussions to change it, with no result. Several of us also participated on meta for the choice of a mascott. From time to time, some people try to raise the topic of changing the name for a more french-sound.
I think your comment "I would have preferred it if you had made an effort to push for a new, international logo instead." is quite strange. Very strange.
when we made the change, there was *no* (I insist on the no) communication between the french and the english wikipedias. We were about 10 while you already were hundred. We had about 600 pages. We were still phase I. We were unwelcome on meta. We had no mailing list. The wikipedia-l was for english matters only. I think the only traveller with me was Youssef. There was no place to discuss *anything* in common.
Which is why my first two participations on an english mailing list was to try to explain to Jimbo the matter of the logo, and to try to explain what could have lead the spanish to fork.
I think the third was to call for help because we had *no* sysop, and thus no one had any power against vandals and no one could do house keeping.
And the fourth was to complain there had been an unilateral decision on putting red underlined links default, with no international being ask their opinion. At that time, it was agreed we could have the question marks as preference. It was never done. Anyway, at that time, we were not even internationals. We were basically nothing.
Consequently, I find your comment quite out of context Erik. Now is different (I think in part of all the noise I made :-)). But back then, the idea of french wikipedians suggesting the english to change their logo is totally...
As for changing the default skin, the only wiki that has done so, so far, is the Esperanto wiki, and this was done by Brion without much (any?) discussion. We currently have no policy on this, and there are only two ways to set up such a policy within our current system:
- decision by Jimbo Wales
- authorization of a vote by Jimbo Wales
- consensus among all Wikipedians, including Jimbo
Wales (not gonna happen)
lol. Perhaps not.
Since Wikipedia is not a dictatorship where everything that is not expressly allowed is forbidden, in the absence of a policy, it would be OK for any of the existing wikis to change its default skin. It would be courteous and wise to wait for a word from Jimbo before doing so.
quite true. But we can discuss it :-)
There is another effect: When I first visited the Esperanto Wikipedia out of curiosity, I didn't know about CB yet and initially wondered whether this was still part of the same project -- there was no logo, the site was called "Vikipedio", and it looked entirely different. Many other visitors have reported the same experience on the Village Pump and elsewhere. This kind of reaction goes against anything that a common project with a common name stands for. It deteriorates the Wikipedia brand and common identity.
Agreed. Having a the same time not the same skin, not the same logo, and not the same name...is certainly a pb
as long as *all* skins are available to *all* wikipedias, I see not why we would make one
wikipedia
unhappy
Who will be unhappy? Are we really talking about strong tendencies within the Wikipedias, or only about single individuals who are very vocal?
Well, we can't know this for sure without a poll...
what about setting a poll system ?
Is
there such a thing as a "cultural preference" for a certain skin? The numbers certainly do not indicate this. The following percentages of users have changed their skin from the default to "Cologne Blue":
German: 19.4% English: 8.58% French: 11.8% Polish: 12% Chinese: 9.18% Dutch: 7.42% Swedish: 7.55%
very interesting numbers ! perhaps biased for a lack of choice though
I conclude that the different cultures are reasonably similar for us to set an international default, and that it is only a vocal minority that opposes such a step.
I think the numbers would not be so obvious with one or two good skins. Perhaps you go to quickly to the conclusion. Let's wait Tarquin proposition :-)
Regards,
Erik
Best Erik
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