November 2002 - Wikitech-l - lists.wikimedia.org

Re: WikiEN-L
by Toby Bartels 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

elian wrote: >Toby Bartels wrote: >>Or not have moderation. >>Other than approving posts by nonmembers, why do we need it? >>When was this decided? >Never. The question was about administration, not moderation. Choosing >taglines, defining welcome greetings and all the technical stuff. Well, I certainly trust Ed to do *that*. -- Toby

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userprefs redesign
by elian 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

Hello, I've never worked on an open-source project, so if there are any conventions to follow, please tell me. I did some redesign of the user-prefs form (tested on my MacOS X browser zoo and Linux, seems to work still ;-). Shall I commit such stuff directly to CVS or post it here so that everyone can test it first? Note to Magnus: Could you mail me your test.php for the portal page? Question to all: I got wikipedia running (macos 10.1.5, mysql 3.23, apache 1.3.22), but one problem remains, I get the following error when trying to upload a file: UPDATE cur SET cur_timestamp='20021116204723', cur_user=3, cur_user_text='Elian', cur_text=' * 20:47, 16. Nov 2002 [[Homepage:Elian|Elian]] \"[[:Bild:Mjwinde.png|Mjwinde.png]]\" hochgeladen (test) ', cur_comment='\"Mjwinde.png\" hochgeladen: test' WHERE cur_id= aus der Funktion "wfRecordUpload". MySQL meldete den Fehler "1064: You have an error in your SQL syntax near '' at line 1". Any ideas? The files are uploaded, though. greetings, elian -- Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question and the answer is NO.

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Image archive download?
by Erik Moeller 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

Hi, is there a way to download the image directory of the en.wikipedia? There are the database tarballs, but those do not include the images. Regards, Erik -- FOKUS - Fraunhofer Insitute for Open Communication Systems Project BerliOS - http://www.berlios.de

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vandalism
by Erik Zachte 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

Maybe this has been asked before, anyway: couldn't a script be writtten for administrators to roll back all changes made by a certain user or ip address after a certain date/time, provided noone else has updated since. Links to articles that have been updated by someone else than the vandal could be stored in a special Vandalism/Userxxxx/Versionyyy article for easy reference. Erik Zachte

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user deletion and "top" user changes
by Magnus Manske 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

Regarding the latest vandalism: Two things that could be achieved with minimum effort are: 1. On the user contributions list, mark those changes that are in the "cur" table (call it "top" changes, as they are on top of the article stack). For a vandal user, that means they have not been fixed yet. 2. On the user list, for sysops, have a "delete this user" link after each user. The latter could be combined with a "delete top edits", automatically reverting all "top" changes by this user prior to deletion. That way, we wouldn't have to clean up everything manually. I might do that later, if noone beats me to it... Magnus

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Vandalisme en
by Anthere 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

Some help against vandals is - I believe - needed on the en.wiki __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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TMC script
by Poor, Edmund W 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

Hey, Brion or Magnus or LDC, When are you going to run the TMC name change script? Ed Poor

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stop-words
by youandme＠poczta.fm 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

Hi list, I'm planning to compile a list of stop words for Polish Wikipedia. I wanted to base on English list which exists somewhere for sure, as it is incorporated in English Wikipedia. I browsed through CVS, searched through Wikipedia namespaces and found none. Is it a copyrighted material? If no, can somebody give me hint where I can find it or place it eg. somewhere in Wikipedia: namespace or on meta. It will be usefull for all languages, I'm sure! Eg. it could be a part of help on serching. And if Polish stop words are collected, can they be incorporated into software of Polish Wikipedia before upgrade to Phase III? Regards User:Youandme

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Re: [wikitech-l] stop-words
by youandme＠poczta.fm 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

On 15 Nov 2002 at 21:23, elian wrote: > Hello, > > youandme(a)poczta.fm writes: > > > I'm planning to compile a list of stop words for Polish Wikipedia. I > > wanted to base on English list which exists somewhere for sure, as > > it is incorporated in English Wikipedia. I browsed through CVS, > > searched through Wikipedia namespaces and found none. > > Here is the stopwordlist. Should be also in the cvs. > > greetings, > elian Thank you elian, Shame on me... I know I should start wearing contact lenses :-) Hmmm... I grepped only "stopwords" and variations, and here I see "Fullstop". Anyway, looking at syntax I see that it is rather not localized. No En suffixes. So non-English Wikipedias should replace that file with their own copy or any "switch" based on language setup is planned? Greetings User:Youandme ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Znajdz swoja druga polowe... >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1681

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stop-words
by youandme＠poczta.fm 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

Hi list, I'm planning to compile a list of stop-words for Polish Wikipedia. I wanted to base on English list which exists somewhere for sure, as it is incorporated in English Wikipedia. I browsed through CVS, searched through Wikipedia namespaces and found none. Is it a copyrighted material? If no, can somebody give me hint where I can find it or place it eg. somewhere in Wikipedia: namespace or on meta. It will be usefull for all languages, I'm sure! Eg. it could be a part of help on serching. And if Polish stop-words are collected, can they be incorporated into software of Polish Wikipedia before upgrade to Phase III? Regards User:Youandme ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Znajdz swoja druga polowe... >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1681

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RE: [Wikitech-l] Name for policy discussion list
by Poor, Edmund W 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

Erik, I'll do as I'm told. "One is happy to be of service," as Andrew Martin used to say. Ed Poor

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RE: WikiEN-L
by Daniel Mayer 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

Axel Boldt wrote: >Ed Poor wrote: > >> I am willing to moderate any English-language mailing list >> that Elian wants me to moderate. > >I am against Ed administrating one of our mailing lists since he has >repeatedly shown in the past that he is capable of all sorts of stupid >actions in the heat of the moment. > >Axel Ouch! I guess that excludes me and many other people too. I don't remember you ever exhibiting "stupid actions in the heat of the moment" so I nominate you to do the work. Of course if you or somebody else who is similarly un-tainted doesn't want to to do the work then I guess we will have to settle for Ed. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

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Re: Wikitech-l digest, Vol 1 #230 - 17 msgs
by Anthere 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

From: Toby Bartels <toby+wikipedia(a)math.ucr.edu> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Request for setting up of the Polish mailing list >Jimmy Wales wrote: >>I thought that was just a joke. >The request for <wikiEN-l>? That's no joke. >It's certainly still a controversial subject, >but there are a lot of us that think that such a list should >exist, and should take most of the traffic from <wikipedia-l>. >See, well, practically everything anthere's written lately. -- Toby Hu ? I did not have the feeling I only wrote about that lately ! :-) I will stay on the en.list btw. I strongly support this change to help the international ones to get more involved, plus to make it clear what is a english concern, and what should be a whole community concern. >From: The Cunctator <cunctator(a)kband.com> >Another mailing list is not the answer, unless it's moderated. >A bbs needs >to be set up. I agree it will probably be a better choice. But, it will certainly take time to set up. And what do you mean by moderated ? If it's to gently point out to messages maybe not in the right list until people get used to it, ok. Or what ? Content ? Why would we give the power to any one person to decide what is worth talking about or how we should talk ? (exxxcept Jimmy of course...) Imho, nobody should be "declared" and accept to be moderator of a list, without knowing what it means and implies. The international list could be merged with the mainlist. Interlinking or coding are not only issues for international wikis. It could also be issues to the english one. Again, why setting a difference between the english and the others ? I agree the english is the bigger most comprehensive... one by large, but why should that impact setting relationship between all wikis ? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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Name for policy discussion list
by Poor, Edmund W 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

How about Wikipolicy-l ? Ed Poor -----Original Message----- From: Magnus Manske [mailto:magnus.manske@epost.de] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:52 PM To: wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Request for setting up of the Polish mailing list Jimmy Wales wrote: >I thought that was just a joke. > > Nope, some guys from the de.wikipedia want to discuss the project without hearing about TMC and related stuff in 95% of the mails... Magnus

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Re: WikiEN-L
by Axel Boldt 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

Ed Poor wrote: > I am willing to moderate any English-language mailing list > that Elian wants me to moderate. I am against Ed administrating one of our mailing lists since he has repeatedly shown in the past that he is capable of all sorts of stupid actions in the heat of the moment. Axel __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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Fwd: Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Wikitech-l digest, Vol 1 #229 - 17 msgs
by Anthere 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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RE: [Wikitech-l] WikiEN-L
by Poor, Edmund W 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

> It's not really a problem ;-), but it would be maybe more appropriate if > someone native to the English wikipedia did the administration. > > If someone likes to do it, drop me a mail and I'll add your address to the > administrators-list. > > greetings, > elian I am willing to moderate any English-language mailing list that Elian wants me to moderate. Just tell me what you want me to do. For example, help sort out which posts belong on which list? Ed Poor

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Re: Wikitech-l digest, Vol 1 #229 - 17 msgs
by Anthere 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

From: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)bomis.com> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Request for setting up of the Polish mailing list >Now *this* is funny. I also propose that we have a meta policy >list, >not to discuss policy, but to discuss policies on policies. >That's >99% of what wikipedia-l is about. :-) There is no use to set up a meta list, it already exist and is called the main list. elian wrote: > Jason Richey <jasonr(a)bomis.com> writes: > > > Anybody else need a list? > > Yes, an english list to reduce traffic at wikipedia-l. Yes, an english list for english users. No, it is not a joke. What about copying all the main list accounts on the english list accounts ? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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RE: [Wikitech-l] As a technical matter
by Poor, Edmund W 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

I checked the user_id with the following: select user_id, user_name from user where user_name like 'Throb%' and I got: user_id user_name ------- --------- 4754 Throbbing Monster Cock So I think the 5 update queries Brion wrote will work. Ed Poor

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As a technical matter
by Jimmy Wales 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

How hard is it going to be for me to change Throbbing Monster Cock's username to TMC? Any discussion of the wisdom of so doing should be directed to wikipedia-l. I can easily change his name in the table of users, but this will break a lot of links in articles and elsewhere? So those would need to be changed as well? --Jimbo

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logarithmic approximations
by Chris Bourke 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

I'm working on a project right now using GNU's multiprecision library. However, and unfortunately, there are no library functions to do any logarithmic functions. I'm merely trying to get a ceiling (or floor) or the lg (base 2) of a large integer. Of course, I could always send it into a loop requiring O(lg^3(n)) to get it, but I know there must be a way to do a simpler approximation, especially since I don't need very high precision. I asked this question of some math associates and they suggested the usual taylor series, etc. However, I am unable to find a satisfactory series for a large n (taylor only works for x<1, right?). Any help would be appreciated. ----------------------------------------------- Chris Bourke cbourke(a)cse.unl.edu 402-432-0795

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RE: [Wikitech-l] logarithmic approximations
by Poor, Edmund W 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

How about shifting left, and counting how many shifts it takes to get to the first "1" digit? This will work, if you have an unsigned two's-complement integer, won't it? Ed Poor -----Original Message----- From: Chris Bourke [mailto:cbourke@cse.unl.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:19 AM To: wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org Subject: [Wikitech-l] logarithmic approximations I'm working on a project right now using GNU's multiprecision library. However, and unfortunately, there are no library functions to do any logarithmic functions. I'm merely trying to get a ceiling (or floor) or the lg (base 2) of a large integer. Of course, I could always send it into a loop requiring O(lg^3(n)) to get it, but I know there must be a way to do a simpler approximation, especially since I don't need very high precision. I asked this question of some math associates and they suggested the usual taylor series, etc. However, I am unable to find a satisfactory series for a large n (taylor only works for x<1, right?). Any help would be appreciated. ----------------------------------------------- Chris Bourke cbourke(a)cse.unl.edu 402-432-0795

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RE: [Wikitech-l] Another pair of eyes
by Poor, Edmund W 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

> Ed, can you do a dump of a freshly created wikipedia database and let me > see it? > > Jonathan No, I can't. I only joined the mailing list this week, and I have neither Developer rights nor the knowledge of how to do a Wikipedia dump. (I do know what a dump is, though.) Regretfully, Ed Poor

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] LAG
by Lars Aronsson 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

Jonathan Walther wrote: > On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 06:38:41PM -0500, The Cunctator wrote: > >I'm always suspicious when someone makes the assertion that Language or > >Database X is vastly inferior to Language or Database Y, especially when > > I'm not saying Postgres would result in dramatic speedups; it's about > equal to MySQL in speed. But I believe the slowdown caused by locks > WOULD go away. I agree with you that better indexing could speed things This is just like an edit war, so let's apply the NPOV. That is, let's agree that we are working towards a faster, smoother operation of the system, regardless of which combination of tools eventually achieve that goal. Before we have tried Postgres, let's refrain from claiming that it has "obvious" advantages or drawbacks. Otherwise we risk getting entrenched in prestigious preferences, and few things can be more destructive. To assess whether an alternative solution really is better or worse, I think we should begin by measuring the current performance, then change, then measure again. Luckily, I've been running some response time measurements continuously since we were running the phase II software. And yes, it has gotten worse in the last 3-4 weeks than before. Week Percentage of samples when [[Chemistry]] starting took more than 5 seconds to retrieve --------- ---------------------------------------- 13 May 02 9% 20 May 02 8% 27 May 02 8% 3 Jun 02 11% 10 Jun 02 8% 17 Jun 02 n/a 24 Jun 02 n/a 1 Jul 02 n/a 8 Jul 02 13% 15 Jul 02 8% 22 Jul 02 4% <-- move to phase III software, all gets faster 29 Jul 02 5% 5 Aug 02 0% 12 Aug 02 n/a 19 Aug 02 n/a 26 Aug 02 1% 2 Sep 02 n/a 9 Sep 02 n/a 16 Sep 02 n/a 23 Sep 02 n/a <-- n/a means my measurement script was broken 30 Sep 02 1% 7 Oct 02 3% <-- still pretty good 14 Oct 02 6% <-- worse 21 Oct 02 17% <-- bad 28 Oct 02 12% <-- bad 4 Nov 02 8% <-- bad 11 Nov 02 11% (Mon-Wed) (Yes, in Sweden weeks start on Monday) Let's get those numbers below 5% again. My script only tries to retrieve (read) pages. It doesn't try to submit updates. At regular intervals, it accesses a URL for a page, and outputs a log of the date and time, the URL, the HTTP status code, the number of bytes retrieved, and the amount of elapsed time. If you have a better idea for how to extract useful conclusions from such data, please let me know. -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) tel +46-70-7891609 http://aronsson.se/ http://elektrosmog.nu/ http://susning.nu/

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please help; Postgres
by Jonathan Walther 13 Nov '02

13 Nov '02

Brion, can you run the PHP script that makes and initializes a new Wikipedia database, and then run the "dumpdb" program to dump it as plain-text SQL? If I could have that, it would help immensely in the Postgres porting work. Jonathan -- Geek House Productions, Ltd. Providing Unix & Internet Contracting and Consulting, QA Testing, Technical Documentation, Systems Design & Implementation, General Programming, E-commerce, Web & Mail Services since 1998 Phone: 604-435-1205 Email: djw(a)reactor-core.org Webpage: http://reactor-core.org Address: 2459 E 41st Ave, Vancouver, BC V5R2W2

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Wikitech-l November 2002