Adding to James' response -

From our standpoint, the most important thing for wikis in an opt-out

configuration is to make it clear that VisualEditor is in beta. The first-use beta warning that explains that you're using VisualEditor and that it is in beta is now shown on all wikis, opt-in and opt-out alike. (You can most easily replicate this warning by using VisualEditor in a private browser tab e.g. on fr.wp.)

We added the "beta" superscript and changed the tab order on en.wp in an effort to find a good middle ground between the previous state and a full opt-in mode. While well-received, the changes didn't really achieve that objective, and are probably unlikely to do so elsewhere -- that is, if a community feels that VisualEditor should be opt-in, it'll likely feel that way even if those changes are made. At the same time, the "beta" superscript adds visual clutter to the page (especially for section edit links), far more than is IMO warranted. The first-use warning already tells the user that they're trying a feature that is still in beta and points them to "Edit source".

I'm more ambivalent about the change of tab order. The reason to put VE first is that aspirationally, we should see it as the user experience new users "grow up with" and that we want to make so powerful that it can serve the purposes and needs of most editors. Changing it at a later point would be confusing. At the same time, it's clear that VE usage will still be low among the existing user community even in opt-out wikis for some time.

I think we should continue to discuss the merits of these changes, but I would argue for trying to find the simplest, most consistent model possible. A simple opt-in state and a simple opt-out state that is consistent across wikis would be ideal, IMO. Because every little per-wiki customization adds complexity for users who hop from one wiki to another.

Erik

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:12 PM, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:

Risker,

No. The tabs will be in the "Edit" | "Edit source" configuration, like all wikis except one. (This also is subject to community request, of course.)

J.

On 27 September 2013 18:13, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:

...

James, does this mean that there will now be two tabs of equal prominence, with the local language equivalent of Edit Source/Edit this page (Beta) tabs, in that order? That is, it will remain very obvious how to select source editing?

Risker

On 27 September 2013 19:12, James Forrester jforrester@wikimedia.org wrote:

...

Forwarding to wikitech-ambassadors for info.

As a note, we hope that switching to provide VisualEditor to all users (other than those who opt-out) will be a success for those wikis below. However, if there is community consensus that your wiki does not want it yet or is not ready, it can of course be reversed to "opt-in" - just file a Bugzilla request or contact your local community liaison.

Yours,

J.

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Greg Grossmeier greg@wikimedia.org Date: 27 September 2013 13:36 Subject: [Engineering] Deployment Highlights - week of September 30th, 2013 To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org, Development and Operations engineers engineering@lists.wikimedia.org

Hello and here's your latest edition of the deployment highlights email!

Full schedule here: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments#Week_of_September_30th

== Monday ==

• VisualEditor will be enabled by default for Logged-in users on the following wikis: Bulgarian (bg), Catalan (ca), Cebuano (ceb), Czech (cs), Danish (da), Estonian (et), Basque (eu), Finnish (fi), Galician (gl), Croatian (hr), Hungarian (hu), Indonesian (id), Latvian (lv), Malay (ms), Norwegian - Nynorsk (nn), Norwegian - Bokmål (no), Simple English (simple), Slovak (sk), Slovenian (sl), Turkish (tr), Ukrainian (uk), Volapük (vo), Waray-Waray (war), Modern Greek (el), Neopolitan (nap), Venetian (vec), Sicilian (scn)

  See: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor#Timeline

• MediaWiki 1.22wmf19 will deployed to all non-Wikipedia wikis (eg: Commons, Wikitionary, Wikisource, etc)

== Wednesday ==

• MobileFrontEnd: Of note: the Mobile Team will be transitioning to simply 'riding the MW Core train' soon. This means there will not be a separate Mobile Team deploy window each week but instead all of their changes will ride along with the MediaWiki 1.22wmfXX version update.

== Thursday ==

• MediaWiki 1.22wmf19 to group2 (all Wikipedias)

• MediaWiki 1.22wmf20 to group0 (test/test2/testwikidata/loginwiki/mediawiki/)

• Growth Team deploy window consisting of: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Growth_Deployment_2013-10-03

Let me know if you have any questions,

Greg

-- | Greg Grossmeier GPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @greg A18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

---

Engineering mailing list Engineering@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/engineering

-- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

---

Wikitech-ambassadors mailing list Wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors

-- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforrester@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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Wikitech-ambassadors mailing list Wikitech-ambassadors@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors