விக்கிப்பீடியாவின் பத்தாவது ஆண்டுநிறைவினை யொட்டி சென்னையில் தமிழ் புத்தாண்டு
தினமான 15/1/2011 அல்லது அடுத்த நாள் ஓர் விக்கி சந்திப்பு/பட்டறை நடத்த
திட்டமிடப்பட்டுள்ளது. இது குறித்த பக்கம் ஒன்று உருவாக்கப்பட்டுள்ளது.
[1] http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chennai
ஸ்ரீகாந்த் இதற்கான இடம் மற்றும் பிற ஏற்பாடுகளை செய்து வருகிறார். இது குறித்த
உங்கள் ஆலோசனைகளையும் வழிகாட்டுதல்களையும் எதிர்நோக்குகிறேன்.
அன்புடன்,
மணியன்
மகிழ்நன்,
வரும் சனவரி 15-ம் நாளன்று விக்கிப்பீடியாவின் பத்தாண்டு நிறைவை உலகெங்கிலும்
கொண்டாட ஏற்பாடுகள் நடைபெற்று வருகின்றன.
இந்நிலையில் மதுரையில் காமராசர் பல்கலைக்கழகத்தில் ஒரு சந்திப்பை நடத்த இயலுமா?
இயலுமென்றால் அதற்கான பணிகளைத் தொடங்கலாம்.
http://ten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page என்ற பக்கத்தில் நமது நிகழ்வைப் பதிவு
செய்தால் விக்கிமீடியா அடையாளச் சின்னம் கொண்ட பொருட்களையும் அவர்கள்
அனுப்புவார்கள். அதைச் சந்திப்பில் பங்கேற்பவர்களுக்குத் தரலாம்.
நீங்கள் களத்தில் இருந்து ஒழுங்குபடுத்த இயலுமா எனச் சொல்லுங்கள். நாங்கள் தொலைவில்
இருந்து உதவுகிறோம். தேவைப்பட்டால் நான் ஒருமுறை மதுரைக்கு வழுகிறேன். மலையாள
விக்கியர்களே மதுரையில் வெற்றியுடன் கூட்டம் நடத்தும்போது நம்மால் இயலாதா?
- சுந்தர்
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
Thanks Santhosh for the excellent resource (http://unicode.org/reports/tr31/).
> But for Tamil, I am not aware of any valid pattern where ZWJ or ZWNJ is
> valid.
It's valid only to force the decomposition of ksha (க்ஷ) into k- (க்) followed
by sha (ஷ).
It's an extremely rare and only an historically relevant grantha character and
we can certainly live without this decomposition in urls.
In fact, a) people have disputed the inclusion of ksha and sha under the Tamil
chart in the first place and b) people have argued that, when used, the default
behaviour should be the decomposed form, and a joiner be used to force
concatenation.
After seeing the linked resource, we can safely ask for dropping of these
characters in titles.
- Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
----- Original Message ----
> From: "santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com" <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com>
> To: Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia.
><wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 3:23:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages & unicode issues.
>
> > Update: A Tamil Wikipedian, Mahir, went to the core of the issue that I
> > cited in
> > my previous email and identified that the issue in that instance was due
> > to the
> > superfluous use of the zero width non-joiner HTML entity. We're going to
> > file a
> > bug asking Mediwiki to chomp those entities when they occur in
> > inappropriate
> > places.
>
>
> Qn: Definition for "inappropriate places"?
> Ans: Wikipedia URLs should be considered as "identifiers" and should use
> Unicode standard for Identifier definition using unicode data.
> Unicode Standard Annex #31 defines this clearly.
> http://unicode.org/reports/tr31/ IMHO, Mediawiki should implement this
> standard.
>
> But for Tamil, I am not aware of any valid pattern where ZWJ or ZWNJ is
> valid. I am aware of valid patterns for other Indian languages. So in that
> case we should remove all zwj,zwnj from Tamil urls.
> Sometime back, the inbuilt tool in Malayalam wiki used to allow putting n
> number of zwj in text and we corrected the script to disallow user to put
> more than one zwj, zwnj in sequence(this is what UAX #31 says too).
>
> Thanks
> Santhosh
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
Ragib,
(copied Tamil Wiki list)
We've faced an issue similar to Bug #5948. Due to non-canonicalisation, there
are two articles on the same title in Tamil Wikipedia!
http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9A%…
(Tamil discussion)
- Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
----- Original Message ----
> From: Ragib Hasan <ragibhasan(a)gmail.com>
> To: Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia.
><wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 10:23:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages & unicode issues.
>
> I'm curious about the issue you are discussing ... is this similar to
> a long-standing bug that affects Bengali, Assamese, and Bishnupriya
> Manipuri wikipedias?
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5948
>
>
> Ragib
>
>
> User:Ragib on en and bn
>
>
> --
> Ragib Hasan, Ph.D
> NSF Computing Innovation Fellow and
> Assistant Research Scientist
>
> Dept of Computer Science
> Johns Hopkins University
> 3400 N Charles Street
> Baltimore, MD 21218
>
> Website:
> http://www.ragibhasan.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 1:29 AM, BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
>wrote:
> >> Unicode's decision to bring the second encoding in
> >
> >> standard was widely debated and opposed mainly by FOSS developer
> >> community from Malayalam. Unicode announced the dual encoding scheme
> >> without canonical equivalence definition in 2005 and reverted it when
> >> scholars and developers opposed it.
> >
> > Sadly, you're not alone in this, Santhosh.
> > We have had canonical non-equivalence issues and many more (similar to the
> > atomic chillu issue) in Tamil too. :(
> > Part of it was inherited from the umbrellaish ISCII model (done with good
> > intentions, I believe).
> > They put the abugidas of the Indo-Aryan languages and other systems like
>Tamil
> > (haven't studied other writing systems enough to comment upon) into one
>bucket
> > and we're still suffering for that. They cite stability when legitimate
>changes
> > are sought, but allow such breaking changes.
> >
> > I'm sure you'll be working with the search engines to map the equivalent
>glyph
> > sequences. Also, please explore mediawiki tech solutions to add redirects
or
> > hidden texts (though not ideal).
> >
> > - Sundar
> >
> > "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for
>the
> > expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> > - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com>
> >> To: Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia.
> >><wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> >> Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 10:28:17 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Indic languages & unicode issues.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:43 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
> >> <tinucherian(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > Happened to see Gerard's blog post on issues with Malayalam Wikipedia
> >> > & Unicode upgrade to
> >> > 5.1 http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2010/12/malayalam-enigma.html
> >>
> >>
> >> The issue is very complex. There were heated debates around this topic
> >> in Unicode Indic Mailing list for years. In short the issue is about
> >> dual encoding- representing a letter using two types of unicode
> >> character codes. Unicode's decision to bring the second encoding in
> >> standard was widely debated and opposed mainly by FOSS developer
> >> community from Malayalam. Unicode announced the dual encoding scheme
> >> without canonical equivalence definition in 2005 and reverted it when
> >> scholars and developers opposed it.
> >> The same proposal again introduced. Foss community, language scholars
> >> protested the proposal. The SMC community submitted a document with 17
> >> reasons why dual encoding should not be introduced.- see
> >> http://wiki.smc.org.in/images/2/23/SMC_Unicode_5.1.pdf
> >> Similarly a seminar conducted to discuss the issue by University of
> >> Kerala opposed the proposal. see
>>>http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080131071131/fci/images/1/19/Report…
>f
> >>f
> >> But Unicode technical consortium did not bother to answer both of
> >> these reports and went ahead with the decision in Unicode 5.1. The
> >> dual encoding scheme is with out any canonical equivalence definition.
> >> Since it is not there in standard I doubt whether Operating systems
> >> will implement it, not to mention about search engines.
> >>
> >> Since the new encoding scheme is defined without backward
> >> compatibility, or against unicode's stability policy, Malayalam FOSS
> >> community decided not to implement it until issues are resolved and
> >> continuing with unicode 5.0 encoding. Malayalam news portals also
> >> follow unicode 5.0. Most of the tools from Google also continue with
> >> unicode 5.0 based encoding. Malayalam wikipedia decided to go ahead
> >> with latest version of unicode. I had resisted this move in the
> >> discussion pages of Malayalam wikipedia. The decision was taken based
> >> on voting by a small community of editors and not based on proper
> >> technical analysis.
> >>
> >>
> >> Believe it or not, this is how Malayalam wiki is rendered inWindows XP
> >> IE 8 box with OS default font:
> >> http://thottingal.in/tmp/ml-wiki-winxp-IE8.png
> >> I hope it gives some clue about the issue that Gerard mentioned.
> >>
> >> Most of the discussions happened around the encoding issue was in
> >> Malayalam(in Malayalam wiki or in blogs), but this English blog post
> >> might summarize it
> >> http://www.j4v4m4n.in/2009/11/07/unicode-or-malayalam/
> >>
> >>
> >> Discussions happened in Malayalam wikipedia(content in Malayalam
> >> language)
>>>http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/വിക്കിപീഡിയ:പഞ്ചായത്ത്_(സാങ്കേതികം)/യൂണികോഡ്_5…
>)
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Santhosh Thottingal
> >> http://thottingal.in
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimediaindia-l l mailing list
> >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
Dear Martin,
We'll certainly like to reuse the processes and code developed for the English
Wiki and Malayalam Wiki projects.
Shiju and Santhosh have also offered to customise their code for us, if
required.
Let us get back to you with specific requests soon.
We can have a Skype call at that time.
> Also, if you have introduced any new schemes on the Tamil Wikipedia that
> we don't have, and that work well, please tell me! We are keen to learn
> from your experiences.
We shall write a short summary of the recently concluded article writing
contest, if that would be of use.
> In Gdansk, I met Mr. R Mayooranathan, a professional architect working on
> the Tamil Wikipedia. Is he helping in this offline project, too?
Certainly so. Mayooranathan is our longest and one of the topmost contributors
and he is involved in most of our growth initiatives to date.
Best regards,
Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
----- Original Message ----
> From: Martin A. Walker <walkerma(a)potsdam.edu>
> To: BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> Cc: Jessie Wild <jwild(a)wikimedia.org>; ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com;
>wikita-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Sent: Mon, December 20, 2010 9:39:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school & WP
>
> Sundar,
>
> Great to hear from you! I recall us talking in Argentina - and I'm
> delighted to see that you're looking at doing an offline release too. Our
> assessment and selection system has worked very well on the English
> Wikipedia. Our latest release has tested a new system for finding a safe
> article version (revisionID) that is free of vandalism. The code is all
> available for people to adapt and use. If there is anything we can do,
> please let me know. If you like, we can talk by Skype or by phone, or set
> up a meeting on IRC.
>
> Also, if you have introduced any new schemes on the Tamil Wikipedia that
> we don't have, and that work well, please tell me! We are keen to learn
> from your experiences.
>
> As you probably know, Shiju Alex and Santosh Thottingal did a Malayalam
> release recently:
> http://shijualex.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/creating-malayalam-wikipedia-cd/
>
> They have a lot of experience with non-Latin scripts, and I'm sure they
> would also be keen to help their neighbours in Tamil Nadu.
>
> In Gdansk, I met Mr. R Mayooranathan, a professional architect working on
> the Tamil Wikipedia. Is he helping in this offline project, too?
>
> Regards
> Martin (User:Walkerma)
> Martin A. Walker
> Department of Chemistry
> SUNY College at Potsdam
> Potsdam, NY 13676 USA
> +1 (315) 267-2271
>
>
> BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> > Thanks for the connection, Jessie.
> >
> > Hello Prof.Martin,
> >
> > If you recall, we had a good discussion on the sidelines of Wikimania
> > Argentina.
> > Having observed the good work of the Offline Editions project team, I'm
> > sure we
> > can immensely benefit from your advice and help.
> > I've copied the Tamil Wikipedians' list as well.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sundar
> > "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium
> > for
> > the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> > - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Jessie Wild <jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> To: BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com; Martin A. Walker
> >> <walkerma(a)potsdam.edu>
> >> Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 3:33:35 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school & WP
> >>
> >> Glad to here things are underway - thanks for the update!
> >>
> >> I think you are right in taking the thorough approach to creating the
> >> best selection of Tamil Wikipedia. Using this approach in the English
> >> Wikipedia has resulted in some highly valuable editions/versions that
> >> were immediately useful as well as constructed in such a way to be
> >> iterated upon - that is, each release is an improved iteration of the
> >> last version.
> >>
> >> I have CC'd Martin Walker on this email who is the key lead behind the
> >> Wikipedia 1.0 project - the project of English offline article
> >> selections. He has gone through a lot of the trial and error behind
> >> article selection in general, so it would likely be incredibly
> >> beneficial for you to talk. Please feel free to reach out to him!
> >>
> >> Thanks again for your hard work on this!
> >> Jessie
> >>
> >> On 12/16/2010 7:43 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >> > Hi Jessie,
> >> >
> >> > Just a quick note to say that discussion on this is progressing,
> >> albeit
> >>slowly.
> >> > The consensus seems to be that we should do a thorough job with the
> > selected
> >> > articles as this is going to be our first major release.
> >> > Will update you when things move to the next stage.
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > Sundar
> >> > "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a
> >> medium
> >>for
> >> > the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >> > - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----
> >> >> From: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >> >> To: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> >> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com
> >> >> Sent: Thu, November 25, 2010 8:33:36 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >> >>
> >> >> Sure. I've left a notice on the mailing list as well as our VP
> >> inviting a
> >>wiki
> >> >> co-ordinator.
> >> >> Will update you of the progress.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks a lot.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sundar
> >> >> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a
> >> medium
> >>for
> >> >> the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >> >> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> >>> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> >>> To: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >> >>> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com
> >> >>> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:44:17 PM
> >> >>> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sure - if you would like to begin the discussion on Village Pump
> >> that
> >> >>> would be great! I think a lot of the questions we walked briefly
> > through
> >> >>> are the ones where some community support would be needed.
> >>Specifically:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Immediate support:
> >> >>> 1 - Selecting the articles/creating collections of articles.
> >> >>> 2 - Creating training materials on how to use WP and how to
> >> incorporate
> >> >>> it into the classroom
> >> >>> 3 - Working with government officials on distribution policies
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Future support:
> >> >>> 4 - Distributing/installing software
> >> >>> 5 - Conducting teacher trainings
> >> >>>
> >> >>> As you probably suspect, I don't understand Tamil, so I'd love if
> >> you'd
> >> >>> just keep me in the loop with what happens on the Tamil and
> >> village
> > pump
> >> >> :)
> >> >>> Jessie
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 11/24/2010 2:50 AM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >> >>> > Sorry for the delay on our part, Jessie.
> >> >>>> The Kenyan project is a useful project to learn from.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Though we have a list at
> >> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikita-l,
> >> >>>> we still use the Village Pump to begin most of the discussions.
> >> >>>> Perhaps we can start a thread on the list or on meta and put a
> >> note
> >>at
> >> >>>> http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VP?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> > - Sundar
> >> >>>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not
> >> merely a
> >> >> medium
> >> >>
> >> >>> for
> >> >>> > the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >> >>> > - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >> >>> >> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> >>>>> To: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >> >>> >> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com
> >> >>> >> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 12:58:10 AM
> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>>>> Thanks for the thorough answers - it's so great you've thought
> >>through
> >> >>>>> so many of these things so carefully.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I'm not sure if you are familiar with the project in Kenya
> >> that is
> >> >>>>> somewhat comparable:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>
>http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/Project_for_Kenyan_Schools
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>>>> In terms of next steps, I think you are right in suggesting
> >> to put
> >>up
> >> >> a
> >> >>>>> proposal on a wiki. I think the approach the Kenyan
> >> Wikimedians have
> >> >>>>> taken to project planning is quite thorough and consequently
> >> very
> >> >>>>> helpful, and constructing something similar for Tamil Nadu
> >> could
> >> >>> >> likewise be beneficial.
> >> >>>>> I would suggest getting other members of the Tamil community
> > onboard
> >> >>> >> with the planning as soon as possible; is there a list
> >> serve
> >>that I
> >> >>>>> should get on to follow the conversations?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Jessie
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>> >> On 11/18/2010 9:31 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >> >>> >>>> I definitely agree that the offline versions will be
> >> useful,
> >>and
> >> >> the
> >> >>>>> type of
> >> >>>>>>> project you are describing is exactly the type of offline
> >>work I
> >> >> am
> >> >>>>> helping
> >> >>>>>>> orchestrate - so yes: let's brainstorm and work
> >> together
> > on
> >> >> this!
> >> >>>>>> Thanks a lot, Jessie. :)
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>>>>>> * For the Tamil Wikipedia project, is this the same project
> >>proposed
> >> >>>>> back in
> >> >>>>>>> 2007, or is it an extension of it? I am curious of
> >> this
> > ever
> >> >> got
> >> >>
> >> >>> off
> >> >>> >>>> the
> >> >>> >>>> ground initially.
> >> >>>>>> It derives from the same thought, but the earlier project did
> >> not
> >>go
> >> >>> >> anywhere.
> >> >>>>>> At present, we have more editors and hence will be able to
> >> curate
> >> >> content
> >> >>> >>> easily.
> >> >>>>>> We also have richer content on many interesting topics.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>> * Also, I am curious what are you thinking for the
> >> collection
> >>of
> >> >>>>> articles to
> >> >>>>>>> be included on the CD. Would you want the whole Tamil
> >> >>> >> Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> >> >>>>>>> collection? Or would you go through the process of
> >> screening
> >> > the
> >> >>>>> articles to
> >> >>>>>>> make sure they were student appropriate / of high
> >> academic
> >> >> quality?
> >> >>>>>> We're only thinking of releasing a selection of articles based
> >> on
> >> >> quality
> >> >>>>> (we've
> >> >>>>>> just started with a rating system),
> >> >>> >>> interestingness and suitability for students, and
> >> >> comprehensiveness.
> >> >>>>>> WikiProject Indian Mammals and articles on chemical
> >> elements form
> >>a
> >> >> good
> >> >>> >>> collection to share with students.
> >> >>> >>> The above are only examples, we can select articles from
> >> across
> >> >> several
> >> >>>>>> categories.
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>>>>>> * In addition, in regards to article selection (above
> >> point),
> >>would
> >> >>>>> the
> >> >>> >>>> Tamil Nadu government need to approve the articles that
> >> were
> >> >> being
> >> >>>>>>> distributed into schools?
> >> >>>>>> Yes, perhaps. Due to our prior engagement with them in the
> >> recently
> >> >>>>> conducted
> >> >>> >>> article writing contest sponsored by the Government of
> >> Tamil
> >>Nadu,
> >> >>>>> co-ordination
> >> >>>>>> would be easier. We have points of contact in the IT
> >> department,
> >> >>> Department
> >> >>>>> of
> >> >>>>>> Translation, and the Department of Education in fairly senior
> >>levels.
> >> >> The
> >> >>> >>> Director of Tamil Virtual Academy is also a keen
> >> supporter of
> >>Tamil
> >> >>>>> Wikipedia
> >> >>>>>> (and an occasional editor).
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> * Why CD? Why not USB? Just curious!
> >> >>>>>> I just thought CDs are less expensive. We can certainly
> >> evaluate
> >>USB
> >> >>>>> storage.
> >> >>>>>>> * How are you thinking of getting the CDs to the different
> >>schools?
> >> >>> >> Who is
> >> >>>>>>> going to download the materials onto the school computers?
> >>Will
> >> >>> there
> >> >>>>> (or
> >> >>>>>>> does there need to be) any training involved?
> >> >>>>>> We should take the help of the School Education department
> >> who have
> >> >>>> existing
> >> >>>>>> channels.
> >> >>>>>> Some amount of training will be required. The Government
> >> already
> >> >> trains
> >> >>>>> selected
> >> >>>>>> teachers in each District on various skills and then
> >> encourages
> >>them
> >> >> to
> >> >>> >> train
> >> >>>>>> their colleagues. We can follow the same model. It might
> >> require us
> >> > to
> >> >>>> offer
> >> >>> >>> training in approximately 40 locations.
> >> >>> >>> Or we can do it at the zonal level, say, in 5-8
> >> locations.
> >> >>>>>> Please suggest how we can take this forward.
> >> >>>>>> Perhaps put up a proposal on an appropriate wiki if we're
> >>satisfied
> >> >> with
> >> >>> >> the
> >> >>>>>> skeleton?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>> - Sundar
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and
> >> not
> >>merely a
> >> >>> medium
> >> >>>>> for
> >> >>> >>> the expression of thought, is a truth generally
> >> admitted."
> >> >>>>>> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>>>>>> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> >>> >>>> To: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >> >>> >>>> Cc:ravishankar.ayyakkannu@gmail.com
> >> >>> >>>> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 4:45:14 AM
> >> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >> >>>>>>> Thanks, Sundar.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> I definitely agree that the offline versions will be useful,
> >> and
> >>the
> >> >>>>> type of
> >> >>>>>>> project you are describing is exactly the type of offline
> >> work
> >>I
> >> >> am
> >> >>>>> helping
> >> >>>>>>> orchestrate - so yes: let's brainstorm and work
> >> together on
> >> >> this!
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>> A couple questions to get our conversations going:
> >> >>> >>>> * For the Tamil Wikipedia project, is this the same
> >> project
> >> > proposed
> >> >>>>> back in
> >> >>>>>>> 2007, or is it an extension of it? I am curious of
> >> this
> >>ever
> >> >> got
> >> >>
> >> >>> off
> >> >>>>>>> the
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>> ground initially.
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>> * Also, I am curious what are you thinking for the
> >> collection of
> >> >>>>> articles to
> >> >>>>>>> be included on the CD. Would you want the whole Tamil
> >> >>>>> Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> >> >>> >>>> collection? Or would you go through the process of
> >>screening
> >> >> the
> >> >>>>> articles to
> >> >>>>>>> make sure they were student appropriate / of high
> >> academic
> >> >>> quality?
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>> * In addition, in regards to article selection (above
> >> point),
> >>would
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>> >>>> Tamil Nadu government need to approve the articles that
> >> were
> >> >> being
> >> >>>>>>> distributed into schools?
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> * Why CD? Why not USB? Just curious!
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>> * How are you thinking of getting the CDs to the
> >> different
> >>schools?
> >> >>>>> Who is
> >> >>>>>>> going to download the materials onto the school computers?
> >>Will
> >> >>> there
> >> >>>>> (or
> >> >>>>>>> does there need to be) any training involved?
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Sorry for the many questions - hopefully they'll push us
> >> closer to
> >> >>> > some
> >> >>>>>>> productive movement!
> >> >>> >>>> Jessie
> >> >>> >>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On 11/17/2010 7:05 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> Hi Jessie,
> >> >>> >>>>> On another note, we at Tamil Wikipedia have been
> >> discussing
> >> >>>>> ways to
> >> >>>>>>>> publish an offline edition (primarily CD-based) of
> >> >> selected
> >> >>>>> articles
> >> >>> >>>> >from Tamil Wikipedia and possibly the whole
> >> of
> >>Tamil
> >> >>>>> Wiktionary. Will
> >> >>>>>>>> you be interested in helping with this?
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>> This will be useful in schools, because the TN
> >> government
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> has
> >> >>>>> provided
> >> >>>>>>>> almost every school with a couple of computers.
> >> In
> >>fact,
> >> >>> they're
> >> >>>>> also
> >> >>>>>>>> training the teachers (including my mom) in
> >> basic
> >> >> computer
> >> >>>>> usage. With
> >> >>> >>>>> an offline edition, students can immediately
> >>benefit
> >> >>> regardless
> >> >>> >> of
> >> >>>>>>>> whether they have access to the internet.
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>> - Sundar
> >> >>> >>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not
> > merely
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> a
> >> >>>>> medium
> >> >>>>>> for the expression of thought, is a truth generally
> >> >> admitted."
> >> >>> >>>>> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award
> >> Lecture
> >> >>> >>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> >>> >>>>>>
To:sundarbecse@yahoo.com;ravishankar.ayyakkannu@gmail.com
> >> >>> >>>>>> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:56:55 AM
> >> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>> Sundar / Ravishankar -
> >> >>> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this wonderful story below! What a
> >> >>>>> great
> >> >>> >>>>>> example of how WP can be useful in schools.
> >> >>>>>>>>> So, I'm working on the development and deployment of
> >> >>> >>> offline
> >> >>>>>>>>> Wikipedia, and the areas we think will be most
> >> >>> effective
> >> >>>>> to get
> >> >>> >>>>>> into are schools in areas without
> >> consistent
> >>access
> >> >> to
> >> >>> >> Internet.
> >> >>>>>>>>> To that end, hearing this story raised a
> >> couple
> >> >>> immediate
> >> >>>>>>>>> questions in my mind which I thought
> >> I'd ask
> >> > you:
> >> >>> >>>>>> (1) What was this school's connection to the
> >> Internet?
> >> >>>>> That is,
> >> >>>>>>>>> were they connecting to Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> >> >> online?
> >> >>>>>>>>> (2) What exactly is a "state-funded free education
> >> >>>>> school"? Does
> >> >>>>>>>>> that just mean that students do not have to
> >> pay
> >>to
> >> >>> attend,
> >> >>>>> or is
> >> >>> >>>>>> this a specific type of school (sorry, I
> >> am
> >>not
> >> >>> familiar
> >> >>>>> with the
> >> >>> >>>>>> phrase so just want to make sure I
> >>understand!)?
> >> >>> >>>>>> (3) Why did Mr. Jothimani choose to use
> >> >>>>> Wikipedia/Wiktionary over
> >> >>> >>>>>> other sources?
> >> >>> >>>>>> (4) Do we know if the students had used Wikipedia
> >> prior
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> to
> >> >>>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> launch of this project? Had the teachers?
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>> Thank you both so much; what an awesome story!
> >> >>>>>>>>> Jessie
> >> >>> >>>>>>
> >> >>> >>>>>> On 11/16/2010 8:15 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> Hi Sue, I just got reminded of the following story about
> >> how
> >> >> students
> >> >>>>> and staff
> >> >>>>>>>>> of a village school benefited from Tamil Wikipedia. We
> >> found
> >>this
> >> >>> from
> >> >>>>> an
> >> >>> >>>>>> article in a magazine called "pudhiya thalaimurai"
> >> (New
> >> >> Generation)
> >> >>
> >> >>> and
> >> >>>>> another
> >> >>>>>>>>> blogpost.[1] It is about how a school headmaster
> >> Mr.Jothimani
> >> >>> transformed
> >> >>>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> state-funded free education school at a village Mangudi
> >> near
> >> >>> Kumbakonam
> >> >>>>> in
> >> >>>>>>>>> Tamil Nadu. Among others, it includes a section on how
> >> Tamil
> >> >>> Wikipedia
> >> >>>>> and
> >> >>>>>>>>> Wiktionary are being used by the students and staff.
> >>Subsequently,
> >> >> a
> >> >>>>> Tamil
> >> >>> >>>>>> Wikipedian Ravishankar Ayyakkannu (User:Ravidreams)
> >> called
> >> >>> Mr.Jothimani
> >> >>>>> over
> >> >>>>>>>>> phone and collected more information. He wrote the
> >> findings in
> >>the
> >> >>> Tamil
> >> >>> >>>>>> Wikipedia blogpost.[2] Translation of some excerpts:
> >> *
> >>Students
> >> >> of
> >> >>>>> sixth,
> >> >>> >>>>>> seventh, and eighth standard (aged ~11-13) use Tamil
> >>Wikipedia.
> >> >> *
> >> >>
> >> >>> One
> >> >>>>> class
> >> >>>>>>>>> everyday is dedicated for Wikipedia during school hours.
> >> During
> >> >> this
> >> >>>>> period,
> >> >>> >>>>>> students research about the topics that they learned
> >> that
> >>day in
> >> >>> other
> >> >>>>> classes
> >> >>> >>>>>> (examples below). If they need to access the Wiki
> >> for their
> >>home
> >> >>> work,
> >> >>>>> writing
> >> >>> >>>>>> or speaking contests, students spend time online
> >> during
> >>lunch or
> >> >>>>>>>> after hours.
> >> >>>>>>>>> * They find the information accessible most of the time.
> >> *
> >> >> Teachers
> >> >>
> >> >>> too
> >> >>>>> find it
> >> >>>>>>>>> useful. * They felt that they could use more of local
> >>information
> >> >>> about
> >> >>> >> their
> >> >>>>>>>>> district and about Tamil Nadu and India in general. *
> >>Example
> >> >> use
> >> >>> >> cases: if
> >> >>>>>>>>> the teacher gives a topic "statesmen", students look for
> >> Nehru,
> >> >>>>> Kamarajar,
> >> >>>>>>>>> etc., If they give a story writing contest of the title "a
> >>story
> >> >> of
> >> >>>>> itself told
> >> >>>>>>>>> by River Cauvery", they search for the article on the
> >> river and
> >> >> write
> >> >>> >> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> details in first person. They also go find other
> >> interlinked
> >> >>> articles on
> >> >>> >> Coorg,
> >> >>>>>>>>> Poombuhar, etc., and get excited about their findings. The
> >> >> headmaster
> >> >>> >> finds
> >> >>>>>>>>> that the students' creative expression has clearly
> >> increased
> >> > after
> >> >>> >> introducing
> >> >>>>>>>>> Tamil Wikipedia. A student who would write 20 sentences on
> >> a
> >>topic
> >> >>> now
> >> >>>>> writes
> >> >>>>>>>>> 60 sentences. * They also use the Tamil Wiktionary which
> >> has
> >> >> nearly
> >> >>
> >> >>> two
> >> >>>>> hundred
> >> >>> >>>>>> thousand entries including technical glossaries
> >> donated by
> >>the
> >> >> Tamil
> >> >>>>> Virtual
> >> >>> >>>>>> Academy. Given that typically students in such
> >> remote
> >>villages
> >> >> do
> >> >>
> >> >>> not
> >> >>>>> have
> >> >>>>>>>>> access to much information, the utility of this exposure
> >> is
> >> >> immense.
> >> >>>>> Also, most
> >> >>>>>>>>> of the students of state-run schools come from
> >> under-previleged
> >> > and
> >> >>>>> low-income
> >> >>> >>>>>> families. Given that, this helps to even out the
> >> systemic
> >>bias
> >> >>>>> somewhat. I've
> >> >>> >>>>>> taken the liberty to copy Ravishankar who spoke to the
> >> >> headmaster. -
> >> >>>>>> Sundar
> >> >>>>>>>>> [1]
> >> -http://infinityholes.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post.html
> >>(in
> >> >>> Tamil)
> >> >>>>> [2] -
> >> >>> >>>>>>
> >>http://tamilwikipedia.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post_5826.html
> >> >> (in
> >> >>>>> Tamil) "That
> >> >>>>>>>>> language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely
> >> a
> >>medium
> >> >> for
> >> >>>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted." -
> >> George
> >> >> Boole,
> >> >>>>> quoted in
> >> >>>>>>>>> Iverson's Turing Award Lecture ----- Original Message
> >>----
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> From: Sue Gardner<sgardner(a)wikimedia.org> To:
> >> "Local
> >>Chapters,
> >> >>> board
> >> >>>>> and
> >> >>> >>>>>>> officers coordination (closed
> >> >>> >> subscription)"<Internal-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> >> >>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 12:01:48 PM Subject:
> >>[Internal-l]
> >> >>> Looking
> >> >>>>> for
> >> >>> >>>>>>> stories of readers affected by Wikipedia Hi folks,
> >> Megan
> >> >> Hernandez
> >> >>
> >> >>> on
> >> >>> >> the
> >> >>>>>>>>>> staff is looking out for me, for stories of readers
> >> whose
> > lives
> >> >> have
> >> >>>>> been
> >> >>>>>>>>>> impacted by Wikipedia or the other projects. (Donors
> >> often
> >>send
> >> >> us
> >> >>>>> stories like
> >> >>> >>>>>>> that, and I am often looking for stories to tell
> >> people
> >>about
> >> >> the
> >> >>>>> projects. So
> >> >>> >>>>>>> I've asked her to send good ones to me.) I was
> >> writing
> >>her a
> >> >> set
> >> >>
> >> >> of
> >> >>>>> criteria
> >> >>>>>>>>>> for the kinds of stories I want, and it occurred to me
> >> that you
> >> >>> might
> >> >>> >>>>>>> yourselves have some good stories of exactly this
> >> kind. So I
> >>am
> >> >>> sending
> >> >>>>> along
> >> >>> >>>>>>> the criteria here too :-) If you have stories that
> >> fit
> >>many/all
> >> >> of
> >> >>>>> these
> >> >>> >>>>>>> criteria, please send them to me, onlist or off.
> >> And
> >>please
> >> >> forgive
> >> >>
> >> >>> my
> >> >>> >>>>>>> cross-posting to several lists at once. Thanks, Sue
> >> *
> >> >> Ideally,
> >> >>
> >> >>> they'd
> >> >>>>> be
> >> >>>>>>>>>> along the theme of "how Wikipedia made my life better."
> >> This
> >> >> might
> >> >>
> >> >>> be
> >> >>> >> an
> >> >>>>>>>>>> anecdote, or bigger-picture (ie, 'how Wikipedia makes my
> >> life
> >> >> better
> >> >>>>> every
> >> >>>>>>>>>> day'). * Ideally, they would be stories of people
> >> who
> >> >>>>>>>>>> pre-exposure-to-Wikipedia would have had circumscribed
> >> access
> >> >> to
> >> >>>>> information.
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Because they grew up in a small town with no library,
> >> because
> >> >> their
> >> >>>>> school
> >> >>>>>>>>>> didn't stock certain kinds of books, because materials
> >> in
> >>their
> >> >>>>> language are of
> >> >>>>>>>>>> limited availability, because their government limits
> >> access
> > to
> >> >>> certain
> >> >>> >> types
> >> >>>>>>>>>> of information -- in general, because their
> >> >>> >>>>>> economic/political/socio-cultural
> >> >>> >>>>>>> circumstances somehow impede(d) easy access to
> >>information. *
> >> >>> Ideally,
> >> >>>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>>> information that Wikipedia gives them is important, and
> >>directly,
> >> >>>>> immediately
> >> >>>>>>>>>> useful. Like, it helped them better understand a health
> >> issue
> >> >> they
> >> >>
> >> >>> were
> >> >>> >> having,
> >> >>>>>>>>>> or it equipped them to do some important task better; it
> > helped
> >> >> them
> >> >>> >> understand
> >> >>>>>>>>>> a new situation or some aspect of themselves, or enabled
> >> them
> >>to
> >> >>> solve
> >> >>>>> an
> >> >>>>>>>>>> important problem. Maybe it helped them get a job they
> >> > otherwise
> >> >>>>> couldn't have
> >> >>> >>>>>>> gotten, or enabled them to avoid some specific
> >> danger or
> >>risk.
> >> >> *
> >> >>>>> And/or, the
> >> >>>>>>>>>> information fed a general curiosity and desire to
> >> understand
> >>the
> >> >>> world
> >> >>> >> better.
> >> >>>>>>>>>> It got them interested in going to college which nobody
> >> in
> >>their
> >> >>> family
> >> >>>>> had
> >> >>>>>>>>>> done before, it helped them develop a more thoughtful
> > position
> >> >> on a
> >> >>>>> public
> >> >>>>>>>>>> policy issue, it stimulated them to travel or read more
> > widely,
> >> >> or
> >> >>
> >> >>> to
> >> >>>>> question
> >> >>>>>>>>>> assumptions they had been making. * Ideally, their
> >> lives are
> >> >> better
> >> >>>>> today
> >> >>> >>>>>>> because of the information they are exposed to via
> >>Wikipedia.
> >> >> Maybe
> >> >>>>> this would
> >> >>> >>>>>>> be better in some really specific way -- like, "Three
> >>months
> >> >> later
> >> >>
> >> >> I
> >> >>>>> persuaded
> >> >>>>>>>>>> my doctor to let me try the new treatment, and it
> >> worked." Or,
> >>it
> >> >>> might
> >> >>> >> be much
> >> >>>>>>>>>> more general. * It is fine if the information they
> >> found on
> >> >>> Wikipedia
> >> >>>>> might
> >> >>> >>>>>>> otherwise have been kept from them, either
> >> deliberately
> > or
> >> >> through
> >> >>
> >> >>> lack
> >> >>>>> of easy
> >> >>>>>>>>>> opportunity. It is fine if the information is considered
> >> risky
> >> > or
> >> >>>>> controversial
> >> >>>>>>>>>> in some way. Sue Gardner Executive Director
> >> Wikimedia
> >> >>> Foundation
> >> >>>>> 415 839
> >> >>> >>>>>>> 6885 office 415 816 9967 cell Imagine a world in
> >> which
> >>every
> >> >> single
> >> >>>>> human
> >> >>> >>>>>>> being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.
> >> Help
> >>us
> >> >> make it
> >> >>
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> >>>>>>> reality!http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> >> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > Internal-l
> >> >> mailing
> >> >>>>> list
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Internal-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >> >>> >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-l
> >> >>> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> Internal-l
> >> >> mailing
> >> >>
> >> >>> list
> >> >>>>>>>>> Internal-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >> >>> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-l
> >> >>> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> -- Jessie Wild Special Projects Manager Gloabl
> >> Development
> >> >>> Wikimedia
> >> >>>>>>> Foundation
> >> >>>>>> -- Jessie Wild Special Projects Manager Gloabl Development
> >> > Wikimedia
> >> >>>>> Foundation
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> Jessie Wild
> >> >>>>> Special Projects Manager
> >> >>>>> Gloabl Development
> >> >>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Jessie Wild
> >> >>> Special Projects Manager
> >> >>> Gloabl Development
> >> >>> Wikimedia Foundation
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jessie Wild
> >> Special Projects Manager
> >> Gloabl Development
> >> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
Thanks for the connection, Jessie.
Hello Prof.Martin,
If you recall, we had a good discussion on the sidelines of Wikimania
Argentina.
Having observed the good work of the Offline Editions project team, I'm sure we
can immensely benefit from your advice and help.
I've copied the Tamil Wikipedians' list as well.
Regards,
Sundar
"That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for
the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
- George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
----- Original Message ----
> From: Jessie Wild <jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> To: BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com; Martin A. Walker <walkerma(a)potsdam.edu>
> Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 3:33:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school & WP
>
> Glad to here things are underway - thanks for the update!
>
> I think you are right in taking the thorough approach to creating the
> best selection of Tamil Wikipedia. Using this approach in the English
> Wikipedia has resulted in some highly valuable editions/versions that
> were immediately useful as well as constructed in such a way to be
> iterated upon - that is, each release is an improved iteration of the
> last version.
>
> I have CC'd Martin Walker on this email who is the key lead behind the
> Wikipedia 1.0 project - the project of English offline article
> selections. He has gone through a lot of the trial and error behind
> article selection in general, so it would likely be incredibly
> beneficial for you to talk. Please feel free to reach out to him!
>
> Thanks again for your hard work on this!
> Jessie
>
> On 12/16/2010 7:43 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> > Hi Jessie,
> >
> > Just a quick note to say that discussion on this is progressing, albeit
>slowly.
> > The consensus seems to be that we should do a thorough job with the
selected
> > articles as this is going to be our first major release.
> > Will update you when things move to the next stage.
> >
> > Best,
> > Sundar
> > "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium
>for
> > the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> > - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >> To: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com
> >> Sent: Thu, November 25, 2010 8:33:36 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >>
> >> Sure. I've left a notice on the mailing list as well as our VP inviting a
>wiki
> >> co-ordinator.
> >> Will update you of the progress.
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot.
> >>
> >> Sundar
> >> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium
>for
> >> the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >>> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >>> To: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >>> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com
> >>> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:44:17 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >>>
> >>> Sure - if you would like to begin the discussion on Village Pump that
> >>> would be great! I think a lot of the questions we walked briefly
through
> >>> are the ones where some community support would be needed.
>Specifically:
> >>>
> >>> Immediate support:
> >>> 1 - Selecting the articles/creating collections of articles.
> >>> 2 - Creating training materials on how to use WP and how to incorporate
> >>> it into the classroom
> >>> 3 - Working with government officials on distribution policies
> >>>
> >>> Future support:
> >>> 4 - Distributing/installing software
> >>> 5 - Conducting teacher trainings
> >>>
> >>> As you probably suspect, I don't understand Tamil, so I'd love if you'd
> >>> just keep me in the loop with what happens on the Tamil and village
pump
> >> :)
> >>> Jessie
> >>>
> >>> On 11/24/2010 2:50 AM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >>> > Sorry for the delay on our part, Jessie.
> >>>> The Kenyan project is a useful project to learn from.
> >>>>
> >>>> Though we have a list at
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikita-l,
> >>>> we still use the Village Pump to begin most of the discussions.
> >>>> Perhaps we can start a thread on the list or on meta and put a note
>at
> >>>> http://ta.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VP?
> >>>>
> >>> > - Sundar
> >>>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a
> >> medium
> >>
> >>> for
> >>> > the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >>> > - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >>> >
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>> >> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >>>>> To: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >>> >> Cc: ravishankar.ayyakkannu(a)gmail.com
> >>> >> Sent: Tue, November 23, 2010 12:58:10 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >>> >>
> >>>>> Thanks for the thorough answers - it's so great you've thought
>through
> >>>>> so many of these things so carefully.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not sure if you are familiar with the project in Kenya that is
> >>>>> somewhat comparable:
> >>>>>
> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Kenya/Project_for_Kenyan_Schools
> >>> >>
> >>>>> In terms of next steps, I think you are right in suggesting to put
>up
> >> a
> >>>>> proposal on a wiki. I think the approach the Kenyan Wikimedians have
> >>>>> taken to project planning is quite thorough and consequently very
> >>>>> helpful, and constructing something similar for Tamil Nadu could
> >>> >> likewise be beneficial.
> >>>>> I would suggest getting other members of the Tamil community
onboard
> >>> >> with the planning as soon as possible; is there a list serve
>that I
> >>>>> should get on to follow the conversations?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jessie
> >>>>>
> >>> >> On 11/18/2010 9:31 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >>> >>>> I definitely agree that the offline versions will be useful,
>and
> >> the
> >>>>> type of
> >>>>>>> project you are describing is exactly the type of offline
>work I
> >> am
> >>>>> helping
> >>>>>>> orchestrate - so yes: let's brainstorm and work together
on
> >> this!
> >>>>>> Thanks a lot, Jessie. :)
> >>> >>>
> >>>>>>> * For the Tamil Wikipedia project, is this the same project
>proposed
> >>>>> back in
> >>>>>>> 2007, or is it an extension of it? I am curious of this
ever
> >> got
> >>
> >>> off
> >>> >>>> the
> >>> >>>> ground initially.
> >>>>>> It derives from the same thought, but the earlier project did not
>go
> >>> >> anywhere.
> >>>>>> At present, we have more editors and hence will be able to curate
> >> content
> >>> >>> easily.
> >>>>>> We also have richer content on many interesting topics.
> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>> * Also, I am curious what are you thinking for the collection
>of
> >>>>> articles to
> >>>>>>> be included on the CD. Would you want the whole Tamil
> >>> >> Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> >>>>>>> collection? Or would you go through the process of screening
> > the
> >>>>> articles to
> >>>>>>> make sure they were student appropriate / of high academic
> >> quality?
> >>>>>> We're only thinking of releasing a selection of articles based on
> >> quality
> >>>>> (we've
> >>>>>> just started with a rating system),
> >>> >>> interestingness and suitability for students, and
> >> comprehensiveness.
> >>>>>> WikiProject Indian Mammals and articles on chemical elements form
>a
> >> good
> >>> >>> collection to share with students.
> >>> >>> The above are only examples, we can select articles from across
> >> several
> >>>>>> categories.
> >>> >>>
> >>>>>>> * In addition, in regards to article selection (above point),
>would
> >>>>> the
> >>> >>>> Tamil Nadu government need to approve the articles that were
> >> being
> >>>>>>> distributed into schools?
> >>>>>> Yes, perhaps. Due to our prior engagement with them in the recently
> >>>>> conducted
> >>> >>> article writing contest sponsored by the Government of Tamil
>Nadu,
> >>>>> co-ordination
> >>>>>> would be easier. We have points of contact in the IT department,
> >>> Department
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> Translation, and the Department of Education in fairly senior
>levels.
> >> The
> >>> >>> Director of Tamil Virtual Academy is also a keen supporter of
>Tamil
> >>>>> Wikipedia
> >>>>>> (and an occasional editor).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Why CD? Why not USB? Just curious!
> >>>>>> I just thought CDs are less expensive. We can certainly evaluate
>USB
> >>>>> storage.
> >>>>>>> * How are you thinking of getting the CDs to the different
>schools?
> >>> >> Who is
> >>>>>>> going to download the materials onto the school computers?
>Will
> >>> there
> >>>>> (or
> >>>>>>> does there need to be) any training involved?
> >>>>>> We should take the help of the School Education department who have
> >>>> existing
> >>>>>> channels.
> >>>>>> Some amount of training will be required. The Government already
> >> trains
> >>>>> selected
> >>>>>> teachers in each District on various skills and then encourages
>them
> >> to
> >>> >> train
> >>>>>> their colleagues. We can follow the same model. It might require us
> > to
> >>>> offer
> >>> >>> training in approximately 40 locations.
> >>> >>> Or we can do it at the zonal level, say, in 5-8 locations.
> >>>>>> Please suggest how we can take this forward.
> >>>>>> Perhaps put up a proposal on an appropriate wiki if we're
>satisfied
> >> with
> >>> >> the
> >>>>>> skeleton?
> >>>>>>
> >>> >>> - Sundar
> >>>>>>
> >>> >>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not
>merely a
> >>> medium
> >>>>> for
> >>> >>> the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted."
> >>>>>> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>
> >>>>>>> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >>> >>>> To: BalaSundaraRaman<sundarbecse(a)yahoo.com>
> >>> >>>> Cc:ravishankar.ayyakkannu@gmail.com
> >>> >>>> Sent: Fri, November 19, 2010 4:45:14 AM
> >>> >>>> Subject: Re: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >>>>>>> Thanks, Sundar.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I definitely agree that the offline versions will be useful, and
>the
> >>>>> type of
> >>>>>>> project you are describing is exactly the type of offline work
>I
> >> am
> >>>>> helping
> >>>>>>> orchestrate - so yes: let's brainstorm and work together on
> >> this!
> >>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> A couple questions to get our conversations going:
> >>> >>>> * For the Tamil Wikipedia project, is this the same project
> > proposed
> >>>>> back in
> >>>>>>> 2007, or is it an extension of it? I am curious of this
>ever
> >> got
> >>
> >>> off
> >>>>>>> the
> >>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> ground initially.
> >>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> * Also, I am curious what are you thinking for the collection of
> >>>>> articles to
> >>>>>>> be included on the CD. Would you want the whole Tamil
> >>>>> Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> >>> >>>> collection? Or would you go through the process of
>screening
> >> the
> >>>>> articles to
> >>>>>>> make sure they were student appropriate / of high academic
> >>> quality?
> >>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> * In addition, in regards to article selection (above point),
>would
> >>>> the
> >>> >>>> Tamil Nadu government need to approve the articles that were
> >> being
> >>>>>>> distributed into schools?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Why CD? Why not USB? Just curious!
> >>>>>>>
> >>> >>>> * How are you thinking of getting the CDs to the different
>schools?
> >>>>> Who is
> >>>>>>> going to download the materials onto the school computers?
>Will
> >>> there
> >>>>> (or
> >>>>>>> does there need to be) any training involved?
> >>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> Sorry for the many questions - hopefully they'll push us closer to
> >>> > some
> >>>>>>> productive movement!
> >>> >>>> Jessie
> >>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> On 11/17/2010 7:05 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Jessie,
> >>> >>>>> On another note, we at Tamil Wikipedia have been discussing
> >>>>> ways to
> >>>>>>>> publish an offline edition (primarily CD-based) of
> >> selected
> >>>>> articles
> >>> >>>> >from Tamil Wikipedia and possibly the whole of
>Tamil
> >>>>> Wiktionary. Will
> >>>>>>>> you be interested in helping with this?
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> This will be useful in schools, because the TN government
> >>
> >>
> >>> has
> >>>>> provided
> >>>>>>>> almost every school with a couple of computers. In
>fact,
> >>> they're
> >>>>> also
> >>>>>>>> training the teachers (including my mom) in basic
> >> computer
> >>>>> usage. With
> >>> >>>>> an offline edition, students can immediately
>benefit
> >>> regardless
> >>> >> of
> >>>>>>>> whether they have access to the internet.
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>> - Sundar
> >>> >>> "That language is an instrument of human reason, and not
merely
> >>
> >>
> >>> a
> >>>>> medium
> >>>>>> for the expression of thought, is a truth generally
> >> admitted."
> >>> >>>>> - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture
> >>> >>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> From: Jessie Wild<jwild(a)wikimedia.org>
> >>> >>>>>> To:sundarbecse@yahoo.com;ravishankar.ayyakkannu@gmail.com
> >>> >>>>>> Sent: Thu, November 18, 2010 12:56:55 AM
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Qs regarding village school& WP
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Sundar / Ravishankar -
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this wonderful story below! What a
> >>>>> great
> >>> >>>>>> example of how WP can be useful in schools.
> >>>>>>>>> So, I'm working on the development and deployment of
> >>> >>> offline
> >>>>>>>>> Wikipedia, and the areas we think will be most
> >>> effective
> >>>>> to get
> >>> >>>>>> into are schools in areas without consistent
>access
> >> to
> >>> >> Internet.
> >>>>>>>>> To that end, hearing this story raised a couple
> >>> immediate
> >>>>>>>>> questions in my mind which I thought I'd ask
> > you:
> >>> >>>>>> (1) What was this school's connection to the Internet?
> >>>>> That is,
> >>>>>>>>> were they connecting to Wikipedia/Wiktionary
> >> online?
> >>>>>>>>> (2) What exactly is a "state-funded free education
> >>>>> school"? Does
> >>>>>>>>> that just mean that students do not have to pay
>to
> >>> attend,
> >>>>> or is
> >>> >>>>>> this a specific type of school (sorry, I am
>not
> >>> familiar
> >>>>> with the
> >>> >>>>>> phrase so just want to make sure I
>understand!)?
> >>> >>>>>> (3) Why did Mr. Jothimani choose to use
> >>>>> Wikipedia/Wiktionary over
> >>> >>>>>> other sources?
> >>> >>>>>> (4) Do we know if the students had used Wikipedia prior
> >>
> >>
> >>> to
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> launch of this project? Had the teachers?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> Thank you both so much; what an awesome story!
> >>>>>>>>> Jessie
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>> >>>>>> On 11/16/2010 8:15 PM, BalaSundaraRaman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Sue, I just got reminded of the following story about how
> >> students
> >>>>> and staff
> >>>>>>>>> of a village school benefited from Tamil Wikipedia. We found
>this
> >>> from
> >>>>> an
> >>> >>>>>> article in a magazine called "pudhiya thalaimurai" (New
> >> Generation)
> >>
> >>> and
> >>>>> another
> >>>>>>>>> blogpost.[1] It is about how a school headmaster Mr.Jothimani
> >>> transformed
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> state-funded free education school at a village Mangudi near
> >>> Kumbakonam
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> Tamil Nadu. Among others, it includes a section on how Tamil
> >>> Wikipedia
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> Wiktionary are being used by the students and staff.
>Subsequently,
> >> a
> >>>>> Tamil
> >>> >>>>>> Wikipedian Ravishankar Ayyakkannu (User:Ravidreams) called
> >>> Mr.Jothimani
> >>>>> over
> >>>>>>>>> phone and collected more information. He wrote the findings in
>the
> >>> Tamil
> >>> >>>>>> Wikipedia blogpost.[2] Translation of some excerpts: *
>Students
> >> of
> >>>>> sixth,
> >>> >>>>>> seventh, and eighth standard (aged ~11-13) use Tamil
>Wikipedia.
> >> *
> >>
> >>> One
> >>>>> class
> >>>>>>>>> everyday is dedicated for Wikipedia during school hours. During
> >> this
> >>>>> period,
> >>> >>>>>> students research about the topics that they learned that
>day in
> >>> other
> >>>>> classes
> >>> >>>>>> (examples below). If they need to access the Wiki for their
>home
> >>> work,
> >>>>> writing
> >>> >>>>>> or speaking contests, students spend time online during
>lunch or
> >>>>>>>> after hours.
> >>>>>>>>> * They find the information accessible most of the time. *
> >> Teachers
> >>
> >>> too
> >>>>> find it
> >>>>>>>>> useful. * They felt that they could use more of local
>information
> >>> about
> >>> >> their
> >>>>>>>>> district and about Tamil Nadu and India in general. *
>Example
> >> use
> >>> >> cases: if
> >>>>>>>>> the teacher gives a topic "statesmen", students look for Nehru,
> >>>>> Kamarajar,
> >>>>>>>>> etc., If they give a story writing contest of the title "a
>story
> >> of
> >>>>> itself told
> >>>>>>>>> by River Cauvery", they search for the article on the river and
> >> write
> >>> >> the
> >>>>>>>>> details in first person. They also go find other interlinked
> >>> articles on
> >>> >> Coorg,
> >>>>>>>>> Poombuhar, etc., and get excited about their findings. The
> >> headmaster
> >>> >> finds
> >>>>>>>>> that the students' creative expression has clearly increased
> > after
> >>> >> introducing
> >>>>>>>>> Tamil Wikipedia. A student who would write 20 sentences on a
>topic
> >>> now
> >>>>> writes
> >>>>>>>>> 60 sentences. * They also use the Tamil Wiktionary which has
> >> nearly
> >>
> >>> two
> >>>>> hundred
> >>> >>>>>> thousand entries including technical glossaries donated by
>the
> >> Tamil
> >>>>> Virtual
> >>> >>>>>> Academy. Given that typically students in such remote
>villages
> >> do
> >>
> >>> not
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> access to much information, the utility of this exposure is
> >> immense.
> >>>>> Also, most
> >>>>>>>>> of the students of state-run schools come from under-previleged
> > and
> >>>>> low-income
> >>> >>>>>> families. Given that, this helps to even out the systemic
>bias
> >>>>> somewhat. I've
> >>> >>>>>> taken the liberty to copy Ravishankar who spoke to the
> >> headmaster. -
> >>>>>> Sundar
> >>>>>>>>> [1] -http://infinityholes.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post.html
>(in
> >>> Tamil)
> >>>>> [2] -
> >>> >>>>>>
>http://tamilwikipedia.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post_5826.html
> >> (in
> >>>>> Tamil) "That
> >>>>>>>>> language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a
>medium
> >> for
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted." - George
> >> Boole,
> >>>>> quoted in
> >>>>>>>>> Iverson's Turing Award Lecture ----- Original Message
>----
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> From: Sue Gardner<sgardner(a)wikimedia.org> To: "Local
>Chapters,
> >>> board
> >>>>> and
> >>> >>>>>>> officers coordination (closed
> >>> >> subscription)"<Internal-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 12:01:48 PM Subject:
>[Internal-l]
> >>> Looking
> >>>>> for
> >>> >>>>>>> stories of readers affected by Wikipedia Hi folks, Megan
> >> Hernandez
> >>
> >>> on
> >>> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>> staff is looking out for me, for stories of readers whose
lives
> >> have
> >>>>> been
> >>>>>>>>>> impacted by Wikipedia or the other projects. (Donors often
>send
> >> us
> >>>>> stories like
> >>> >>>>>>> that, and I am often looking for stories to tell people
>about
> >> the
> >>>>> projects. So
> >>> >>>>>>> I've asked her to send good ones to me.) I was writing
>her a
> >> set
> >>
> >> of
> >>>>> criteria
> >>>>>>>>>> for the kinds of stories I want, and it occurred to me that you
> >>> might
> >>> >>>>>>> yourselves have some good stories of exactly this kind. So I
>am
> >>> sending
> >>>>> along
> >>> >>>>>>> the criteria here too :-) If you have stories that fit
>many/all
> >> of
> >>>>> these
> >>> >>>>>>> criteria, please send them to me, onlist or off. And
>please
> >> forgive
> >>
> >>> my
> >>> >>>>>>> cross-posting to several lists at once. Thanks, Sue *
> >> Ideally,
> >>
> >>> they'd
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>> along the theme of "how Wikipedia made my life better." This
> >> might
> >>
> >>> be
> >>> >> an
> >>>>>>>>>> anecdote, or bigger-picture (ie, 'how Wikipedia makes my life
> >> better
> >>>>> every
> >>>>>>>>>> day'). * Ideally, they would be stories of people who
> >>>>>>>>>> pre-exposure-to-Wikipedia would have had circumscribed access
> >> to
> >>>>> information.
> >>>>>>>>>> Because they grew up in a small town with no library, because
> >> their
> >>>>> school
> >>>>>>>>>> didn't stock certain kinds of books, because materials in
>their
> >>>>> language are of
> >>>>>>>>>> limited availability, because their government limits access
to
> >>> certain
> >>> >> types
> >>>>>>>>>> of information -- in general, because their
> >>> >>>>>> economic/political/socio-cultural
> >>> >>>>>>> circumstances somehow impede(d) easy access to
>information. *
> >>> Ideally,
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> information that Wikipedia gives them is important, and
>directly,
> >>>>> immediately
> >>>>>>>>>> useful. Like, it helped them better understand a health issue
> >> they
> >>
> >>> were
> >>> >> having,
> >>>>>>>>>> or it equipped them to do some important task better; it
helped
> >> them
> >>> >> understand
> >>>>>>>>>> a new situation or some aspect of themselves, or enabled them
>to
> >>> solve
> >>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>> important problem. Maybe it helped them get a job they
> > otherwise
> >>>>> couldn't have
> >>> >>>>>>> gotten, or enabled them to avoid some specific danger or
>risk.
> >> *
> >>>>> And/or, the
> >>>>>>>>>> information fed a general curiosity and desire to understand
>the
> >>> world
> >>> >> better.
> >>>>>>>>>> It got them interested in going to college which nobody in
>their
> >>> family
> >>>>> had
> >>>>>>>>>> done before, it helped them develop a more thoughtful
position
> >> on a
> >>>>> public
> >>>>>>>>>> policy issue, it stimulated them to travel or read more
widely,
> >> or
> >>
> >>> to
> >>>>> question
> >>>>>>>>>> assumptions they had been making. * Ideally, their lives are
> >> better
> >>>>> today
> >>> >>>>>>> because of the information they are exposed to via
>Wikipedia.
> >> Maybe
> >>>>> this would
> >>> >>>>>>> be better in some really specific way -- like, "Three
>months
> >> later
> >>
> >> I
> >>>>> persuaded
> >>>>>>>>>> my doctor to let me try the new treatment, and it worked." Or,
>it
> >>> might
> >>> >> be much
> >>>>>>>>>> more general. * It is fine if the information they found on
> >>> Wikipedia
> >>>>> might
> >>> >>>>>>> otherwise have been kept from them, either deliberately
or
> >> through
> >>
> >>> lack
> >>>>> of easy
> >>>>>>>>>> opportunity. It is fine if the information is considered risky
> > or
> >>>>> controversial
> >>>>>>>>>> in some way. Sue Gardner Executive Director Wikimedia
> >>> Foundation
> >>>>> 415 839
> >>> >>>>>>> 6885 office 415 816 9967 cell Imagine a world in which
>every
> >> single
> >>>>> human
> >>> >>>>>>> being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help
>us
> >> make it
> >>
> >>> a
> >>> >>>>>>> reality!http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
Internal-l
> >> mailing
> >>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>> Internal-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-l
> >>> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Internal-l
> >> mailing
> >>
> >>> list
> >>>>>>>>> Internal-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/internal-l
> >>> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -- Jessie Wild Special Projects Manager Gloabl Development
> >>> Wikimedia
> >>>>>>> Foundation
> >>>>>> -- Jessie Wild Special Projects Manager Gloabl Development
> > Wikimedia
> >>>>> Foundation
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Jessie Wild
> >>>>> Special Projects Manager
> >>>>> Gloabl Development
> >>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jessie Wild
> >>> Special Projects Manager
> >>> Gloabl Development
> >>> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>>
> >>>
>
> --
> Jessie Wild
> Special Projects Manager
> Gloabl Development
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
