Hey,
From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and must therefore follow US Copyright.
I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld online since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they have different copyright lengths.
If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located in the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case the user could use a VPN.)
What about where a company is registered?
Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host Finnegans Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country is responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so, it sounds likely).
Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there any good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German subsidiary legal entity for it or something?
Thanks very much, Julius
Yes, there was a wikilivres project in Canada (pma +50) but it fizzled out. There have also been attempts to have a local EDP or “fair use” of the lesser term, but that would be up to the local wikisource community. (English has resisted this) Other institutions have transcription efforts not constrained by commons copyright rules. For example, transcribed si.org Sorry about that Jim hayes
On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:05 AM Julius Hamilton juliushamilton100@gmail.com wrote:
Hey,
From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and must therefore follow US Copyright.
I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld online since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they have different copyright lengths.
If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located in the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case the user could use a VPN.)
What about where a company is registered?
Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host Finnegans Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country is responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so, it sounds likely).
Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there any good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German subsidiary legal entity for it or something?
Thanks very much, Julius
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi,
Some explanations/clarifications here : - applicable law is a millennia old unsolved nightmare, but to make it short, both US and local laws are applicable on Wikimedia Commons. - when you say "Finnegans Wake by James Joyce", what are you talking about exactly? There are a lot of editions, with a lot of corresponding copyright (and I would say that some - if not most - of them are already public domain in both the local country and US). Who is the translator? What is the publication date in the US? Was there a copyright notice? - "internet barrier" is indeed not possible (hence my first point) - "a German subsidiary legal entity" (or any/all other countries) has already been discussed many times, in the end it's just not feasible (see previous point) nor realistic (US law is probably still applicable anyway).
PS: in any case, it will clearly be public domain in the US in 2035, which is quite soon (we have files marked to undelete as far as 2160 on Commons/Wikisource ;) ) and there is a lot more other work to transcribe on Wikisource meanwhile.
Cheers, Nicolas
Le mer. 1 juin 2022 à 21:56, J Hayes slowking4@gmail.com a écrit :
Yes, there was a wikilivres project in Canada (pma +50) but it fizzled out. There have also been attempts to have a local EDP or “fair use” of the lesser term, but that would be up to the local wikisource community. (English has resisted this) Other institutions have transcription efforts not constrained by commons copyright rules. For example, transcribed si.org Sorry about that Jim hayes
On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:05 AM Julius Hamilton juliushamilton100@gmail.com wrote:
Hey,
From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and must therefore follow US Copyright.
I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld online since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they have different copyright lengths.
If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located in the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case the user could use a VPN.)
What about where a company is registered?
Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host Finnegans Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country is responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so, it sounds likely).
Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there any good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German subsidiary legal entity for it or something?
Thanks very much, Julius
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
According to Joyce foundation “all works published during his lifetime are in the public domain” [in the EU, UK and Ireland. ] https://joycefoundation.utulsa.edu/joyce-copyright/joyce-works-copyright-pub...
apparently this is a URAA item https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:URAA-restored_copyrights
i do not see that it has ever been deleted on commons.
however "*YES. URAA cannot be used as the sole reason for deletion."* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Massive_restoration_of_deleted_im...
here it is a internet archive https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.463592/page/n3/mode/2up
so a bold individual, might well defy precautionary principle and upload expect a deletion nomination in response.
jim hayes
On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 10:03 AM Nicolas VIGNERON vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Some explanations/clarifications here :
- applicable law is a millennia old unsolved nightmare, but to make it
short, both US and local laws are applicable on Wikimedia Commons.
- when you say "Finnegans Wake by James Joyce", what are you talking
about exactly? There are a lot of editions, with a lot of corresponding copyright (and I would say that some - if not most - of them are already public domain in both the local country and US). Who is the translator? What is the publication date in the US? Was there a copyright notice?
- "internet barrier" is indeed not possible (hence my first point)
- "a German subsidiary legal entity" (or any/all other countries) has
already been discussed many times, in the end it's just not feasible (see previous point) nor realistic (US law is probably still applicable anyway).
PS: in any case, it will clearly be public domain in the US in 2035, which is quite soon (we have files marked to undelete as far as 2160 on Commons/Wikisource ;) ) and there is a lot more other work to transcribe on Wikisource meanwhile.
Cheers, Nicolas
Le mer. 1 juin 2022 à 21:56, J Hayes slowking4@gmail.com a écrit :
Yes, there was a wikilivres project in Canada (pma +50) but it fizzled
out.
There have also been attempts to have a local EDP or “fair use” of the
lesser term, but that would be up to the local wikisource community. (English has resisted this)
Other institutions have transcription efforts not constrained by commons
copyright rules. For example, transcribed si.org
Sorry about that Jim hayes
On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:05 AM Julius Hamilton <
juliushamilton100@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey,
From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and
must therefore follow US Copyright.
I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld
online since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to
WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they have different copyright lengths.
If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located in
the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case the user could use a VPN.)
What about where a company is registered?
Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host Finnegans
Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country is
responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so, it sounds likely).
Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there any
good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German subsidiary legal entity for it or something?
Thanks very much, Julius
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi all, yes, the consensus was not to delete no-URAA files only on the basis of US law. But there is an ongoing discussion about reverting this decision apparently: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:WikiProject_Public_Domain/UR... I recommend to participate, in order to fix a consensus. A. *Ruthven* on Wikipedia
On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 01:32, J Hayes slowking4@gmail.com wrote:
According to Joyce foundation “all works published during his lifetime are in the public domain” [in the EU, UK and Ireland. ]
https://joycefoundation.utulsa.edu/joyce-copyright/joyce-works-copyright-pub...
apparently this is a URAA item https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:URAA-restored_copyrights
i do not see that it has ever been deleted on commons.
however "*YES. URAA cannot be used as the sole reason for deletion."*
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Massive_restoration_of_deleted_im...
here it is a internet archive https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.463592/page/n3/mode/2up
so a bold individual, might well defy precautionary principle and upload expect a deletion nomination in response.
jim hayes
On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 10:03 AM Nicolas VIGNERON < vigneron.nicolas@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Some explanations/clarifications here :
- applicable law is a millennia old unsolved nightmare, but to make it
short, both US and local laws are applicable on Wikimedia Commons.
- when you say "Finnegans Wake by James Joyce", what are you talking
about exactly? There are a lot of editions, with a lot of corresponding copyright (and I would say that some - if not most - of them are already public domain in both the local country and US). Who is the translator? What is the publication date in the US? Was there a copyright notice?
- "internet barrier" is indeed not possible (hence my first point)
- "a German subsidiary legal entity" (or any/all other countries) has
already been discussed many times, in the end it's just not feasible (see previous point) nor realistic (US law is probably still applicable anyway).
PS: in any case, it will clearly be public domain in the US in 2035, which is quite soon (we have files marked to undelete as far as 2160 on Commons/Wikisource ;) ) and there is a lot more other work to transcribe on Wikisource meanwhile.
Cheers, Nicolas
Le mer. 1 juin 2022 à 21:56, J Hayes slowking4@gmail.com a écrit :
Yes, there was a wikilivres project in Canada (pma +50) but it fizzled
out.
There have also been attempts to have a local EDP or “fair use” of the
lesser term, but that would be up to the local wikisource community. (English has resisted this)
Other institutions have transcription efforts not constrained by
commons copyright rules. For example, transcribed si.org
Sorry about that Jim hayes
On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:05 AM Julius Hamilton <
juliushamilton100@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey,
From what I understand WikiSource’s servers are located in the US and
must therefore follow US Copyright.
I would like a much deeper understanding of how copyright is upheld
online since it’s so easy to access “foreign” websites, of course.
I would like to upload a book - Finnegans Wake by James Joyce - to
WikiSource. It’s out of copyright in Europe but on the US, because they have different copyright lengths.
If we assume US copyright law applying to servers physically located
in the US, that much makes sense. But is there a law that people in the US cannot access those same materials on foreign servers where they are not copyrighted? If that’s actually a law, how do they enforce that? They would need to stick up some kind of internet barrier, internet censorship. Is that legal? How could they achieve it? Wouldn’t they basically have to get internet service providers to block a certain domain or something? So… the government would say, “We heard foreign site X is serving copyrighted material to American citizens; block that site for all Americans”? And then the foreign site would respond (to get unblocked) by checking the location of whoever’s requesting their webpage and probably specifically limit content depending on region, to comply with the government? (In which case the user could use a VPN.)
What about where a company is registered?
Can Wikisource.de - if it’s actually hosted in Germany - host
Finnegans Wake even if Wikisource is perhaps trademarked in the US or something?
Does the law work that way, that a company registered in one country
is responsible for complying with copyright law internationally? (I assume so, it sounds likely).
Anyway: if we cannot host Finnegans Wake on Wikisource.de, is there
any good workaround? Wikipedia is a very international phenomenon, it would be too bad if it only were ruled by American law. Can’t we create a German subsidiary legal entity for it or something?
Thanks very much, Julius
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikisource-l mailing list -- wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikisource-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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