Thanks for suggestions.... I can only promise, I'll think about them. The question by Micru is particularly hard. :-( 

@ Jane: I've to read your mail again and again; nevertheless a well compiled pagelist tag can really identify into a unique way any page of the book, even if they have no page number, and tl|Pg manages djvu page/book page relationship easily even if book page is identified by something like "Figure 1, Figure 2....". I'll take a look at your book. 


2013/6/7 Jane Darnell <>
I have been wondering the same thing for years. When I upload prints
to Wikimedia Commons, I am generally in a hurry and just use the
default uploader to get it out there. Weeks or months or sometimes
years later I will add in the detailed metadata like the book it was
first published in, alternate sources for the print from the one I
used, the publisher if that is a different person than the artist,
etc. What I don't bother with is page numbers, because this is often
unknown and changes from edition to edition. You can get around this
problem by naming specific editions held in specific libraries with
specific page numbers, which I have done occasionally. Some prints are
so well known they go by their own titles, and the Wikimedia Commons
artwork template even has a field "Original title" to deal with this

When you go through an index of plates in any older book, generally
there are some mistakes, such as blank pages that are indexed because
the plate didn't make it to the printer, some plates the printer added
that didn't make it into the index, and of course the really confusing
one, the prints that a reprinter added that neither the original
author nor the original publisher ever saw.

One reason I have not spent much time on Wikisource is because I feel
I have to decide up front what the structure of the book will be with
page numbering (which sometimes does not count the plates), so I need
to base this on the original index or original list of chapters.
Sometimes a book becomes famous just for one passage, and that passage
may not even be indexed in the original version. How do you add these
links? On Wikimedia Commons you can keep on adding values to fields,
and change the "Information" template to "Artwork" to get more fields.
You can even add annotations to files and then put links to other
files in the annotations, so that through the "Global usage" property
you can see where such prints have been "quoted" or re-used. How do
you do this with books?

I would like to see a flexible way to set this up that makes it easy
to come back and make corrections or additions to the published
information in both indexes and ToC's based on later discovery. This
book of prints for example shows a page order based on one edition
that was reproduced in facsimile version, but other versions exist
with different plates:
How do you set up page numbers for this, because there weren't any to
start with?

2013/6/7, Andrea Zanni <>:
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:36 AM, David Cuenca <> wrote:
>> Automatic creation of page transclusion is nice but also dangerous... too
>> many structures to have an easy solution.
> What Alex is thinking, if I understand his work correctly, is that when you
> work on a new book in nsPage,
> you "define" what the structure is (his work right now is wrapping
> titles/chapters in {{title}} templates, to give the book a logic
> structure), and then a bot runs, create corrispondent ns0 chapters and
> transclude pages.
> I think that ns0 automation is something long needed, as we could suggest
> users to focus just on nsPage and Indexes. All the difficult transclusion
> part would be automatic (or semi-automatic).
> I wonder if there is a better way to define the logic structure of our
> book, maybe directly in the Index page.
> I don't know what would be easier for the user:
> * define the table of content once for all in the Index page
> * define the table of content once in the book Toc (there is often one, if
> not always, when needed)
> * define the table of content just putting templates thorough the book, as
> the reader goes through the book.
> What do you all think?
> Aubrey

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