--- Guillaume Blanchard <gblanchard(a)arcsy.co.jp> wrote: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States Aoi, je ne saurais d�crire la profondeur de perplexit� dans laquelle ton message me plonge... ?!? Anthere __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com

Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)bomis.com> wrote: "Anti-French sentiment in the United States" is a somewhat balanced article, but is it _encyclopedic_? At the very least, it needs a better title, one more closely matching the contents, which are strongly linked to current events. Point is the americans think it balanced, when the french think it is not balanced. Hence, by definition, if some think this article is not fair, it is not NPOV. I think there is a valid topic lurking here, but to be encyclopedic, I think we need to place the current state of French-American relations into the context of history. America and France have had a love-hate relationship for a very long time, and the cultural friction between us is not simply the product of current events. --Jimbo You are right. I forgot his name, but one person decided to start an *historical* [[anti-french sentiment in the United-States]]. It appears to me the point of replacing it in an historical context is a good move; much better than focusing on couple of months old (or even couple of years old) events. The current article will result in an article of a deceiving viability on the long term. Besides, replacing an article in historical context will attract more historians, who show integrity. However, as regards Chadolar (well, the person with this type of name, I really apologize for not remembering) is planning to do, I think we are heading directly in an article even more biaised than this one, and even more offending to french people. The fact is, it is not good for an article to be just a collection of facts poorly reflecting a more global feeling. For the ones hated can only watch being displayed in dismay a list of facts they can not reflect on. With such a list as the one currently provided, there is little that can be done to try to explain why it is so, and why now, and why perhaps hate is not justified sometimes, and the different patterns of love and hate. It is certainly interesting for french people to read such a list of reasons to hate us, a collection of proofs of hateful feeling, for as we already privately discussed it together, we are not aware really of the level of hate you currently feel for us.But, I wonder which interest this type of article has on american people, except for fondly recollecting their emotions, except of nourrishing their resentment with further facts they had not been aware of, except for having a good time writing it and having fun at our reaction reading it. In short, I don't think an encyclopedic article only dealing with one side of a relationship can be anything else than unbalanced. In particular because many people writing the article are *not* having any intention for it to be fair. It appears to me that if such a wider article was to be written, it should be more something like [[Relationship between France and United States]] or [[Americans-French relationships]]. Then, we can start communicating instead of bashing, reflecting instead of ruminating aggressive feelings, learning of both sides, and perhaps adding some water in the wine (well...americans need to stop pouring the french wine on french imported cars before, right ?). And also, seeing there are some hate feelings, as well as love feelings.I think it potentially more fruitful. And then, I will renew my son american passport. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

I tend to agree with Anthere that a more useful article would be "French and American relations" or similar, rather than focussing solely on the negatives.

Actually, no, some Americans, myself included, think it bends over backwards to make the French feel good while making the Americans look bad, something that is done with great regularity on Wikipedia. Zoe Anthere <anthere6(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)bomis.com> wrote: "Anti-French sentiment in the United States" is a somewhat balanced article, but is it _encyclopedic_? At the very least, it needs a better title, one more closely matching the contents, which are strongly linked to current events. Point is the americans think it balanced, when the french think it is not balanced. Hence, by definition, if some think this article is not fair, it is not NPOV. I think there is a valid topic lurking here, but to be encyclopedic, I think we need to place the current state of French-American relations into the context of history. America and France have had a love-hate relationship for a very long time, and the cultural friction between us is not simply the product of current events. --Jimbo You are right. I forgot his name, but one person decided to start an *historical* [[anti-french sentiment in the United-States]]. It appears to me the point of replacing it in an historical context is a good move; much better than focusing on couple of months old (or even couple of years old) events. The current article will result in an article of a deceiving viability on the long term. Besides, replacing an article in historical context will attract more historians, who show integrity. However, as regards Chadolar (well, the person with this type of name, I really apologize for not remembering) is planning to do, I think we are heading directly in an article even more biaised than this one, and even more offending to french people. The fact is, it is not good for an article to be just a collection of facts poorly reflecting a more global feeling. For the ones hated can only watch being displayed in dismay a list of facts they can not reflect on. With such a list as the one currently provided, there is little that can be done to try to explain why it is so, and why now, and why perhaps hate is not justified sometimes, and the different patterns of love and hate. It is certainly interesting for french people to read such a list of reasons to hate us, a collection of proofs of hateful feeling, for as we already privately discussed it together, we are not aware really of the level of hate you currently feel for us.But, I wonder which interest this type of article has on american people, except for fondly recollecting their emotions, except of nourrishing their resentment with further facts they had not been aware of, except for having a good time writing it and having fun at our reaction reading it. In short, I don't think an encyclopedic article only dealing with one side of a relationship can be anything else than unbalanced. In particular because many people writing the article are *not* having any intention for it to be fair. It appears to me that if such a wider article was to be written, it should be more something like [[Relationship between France and United States]] or [[Americans-French relationships]]. Then, we can start communicating instead of bashing, reflecting instead of ruminating aggressive feelings, learning of both sides, and perhaps adding some water in the wine (well...americans need to stop pouring the french wine on french imported cars before, right ?). And also, seeing there are some hate feelings, as well as love feelings.I think it potentially more fruitful. And then, I will renew my son american passport. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.