On Friday 20 February 2004 09:33 am, Jimmy Wales wrote:
Sascha Noyes wrote:
Have a look at [[My Lai Massacre]], [[Donald
Rumsfeld]], etc. There
are plenty of historical events that have copyrighted pictures,
where there is no possibility of replacing them with free
ones. (Unless, of course, you have a time machine)
Your point is a valid point, however I'd say that a handful of "fair
use" images of extreme historical importance is a red herring.
Not at all, it is a compromise.
What I
mean is, there are a few of those, and they may be cases where we come
down on the side of relying on fair use, but they aren't relevant to
the central issue.
I see two factions here. The "no fair use" faction, and the group that wants
to allow fair use. As far as I can tell, the "no fair use" insists on getting
rid of every single fair use image, which would include the examples that I
and others have named. (My Lai massacre, Tinament Square, etc.) The pro-fair
use group seems to want to offer a compromise: Only use fair use images for
circumstances where GFDL images are impossible.
I'm much more concerned about images like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Barrymore
Yes, but as I see it we have already opined that as a compromise we should
only keep fair use images which are not attainable by any other means. A
picture of a living actress does not fall into this category. Under the
compromise, all such images would be deleted.
That's a non-free "fair use" image of
Drew Barrymore that suppresses
demand for a free alternative. And a free alternative is almost
certainly possible. Drew Barrymore is a famous actress who regularly
makes public appearances. She surely has a PR firm with access to her
and to images of her that could be released under a free license.
Agreed, hence our restriction to historical images.
Think about where we will be 10 years from now. Will
we have a large
and free encyclopedia with tons of non-free images? Or will we have a
large and free encyclopedia with a massive collection of free images?
How can we get to where we want to be?
Only using fair use images that are not attainable under the GFDL invalidates
this argument, because if we don't allow fair use images for these
circumstances there won't be any image depicting these events. (Eg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tianasquare.jpg) Or do you really think
that this should be depicted as a sketch? That would seem farcical to me.
I think that the answer lies in not using non-free
licenses or
excessive "fair use" exemptions as a crutch. That crutch will prevent
us from ever getting to where we want to go.
It is not a crutch for historical images; for others I agree
Best,
Sascha Noyes
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