Problème de copyright dans l'usage de vos sources Wikipedia

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia and...

Anthere

26 May 2005 26 May '05

8:09 p.m.

Bonjour, Nous sommes ravis que votre site utilise du contenu de Wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/), l'encyclop�die libre, en n�erlandais, fran�ais et allemand. Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du mat�riel provenant de Wikipedia, il est n�cessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence. Nous ne doutons pas de votre bonne volont�, puisqu'� de multiples endroits, le lien vers wikipedia, vers la foundation, vers l'historique des articles sont utilis�s. Nous aimerions cependant signaler deux petits probl�mes. D'une part, vous remplacez � de nombreux endroits le terme "Wikipedia" par "encyclopedie", ce qui d'une part ne garantie pas correctement le respect de la citation de la source... exemple : *http://encyclopedie.izynews.be/nl/lexImpressum.htm Mais en plus aboutit � des articles inexacts. exemple : *http://encyclopedie.izynews.be/fr/lexw.aspx?doc=Wikipedia Le deuxi�me probl�me a trait avec la licence de nos images. Contrairement au texte qui est toujours sous GFDL, nos images peuvent �tre de diff�rentes licenses, par domaine public ou variations des creative commons. Or, vous indiquez toujours la GFDL. Examples : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3ACopenhagen_statue_of_Absalon.jpg http://lexicon.izynews.be/nl/lexw.aspx?doc=Afbeelding%3aCopenhagen%20statue… Serait il possible que vous corrigiez ces deux probl�mes ? Merci encore d'utiliser notre contenu. En vous remerciant par avance de votre attention. Florence Devouard VP Wikimedia Foundation __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Jean-Baptiste Soufron

27 May 27 May

10:15 a.m.

...

Bonjour, Nous sommes ravis que votre site utilise du contenu de Wikipedia (http://www.wikipedia.org/), l'encyclopédie libre, en néerlandais, français et allemand. Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du matériel provenant de Wikipedia, il est nécessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence.

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Mais l'utilisation du matériel provenant de Wikipédia est subordonnée au respect d'un certain nombre d'éléments. Les contenus disponibles sur le site appartiennent toujours à leur auteur qui ont autorisés leur diffusion dans le cadre du respect des conditions du contrat de mise à disposition GNU FDL.

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Nous aimerions notamment signaler deux petits problèmes. D'une part, vous remplacez à de nombreux endroits le terme "Wikipedia" par "encyclopedie", ce qui d'une part ne garantie pas correctement le respect de la citation de la source...

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D'une part, vous remplacez à de nombreux endroits le terme "Wikipedia" par "encyclopedie", ce qui d'une part ne garantie pas correctement le respect de la source et s'avère contraire aux prescriptions de la GNU FDL

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exemple : *http://encyclopedie.izynews.be/nl/lexImpressum.htm Mais en plus aboutit à des articles inexacts. exemple : *http://encyclopedie.izynews.be/fr/lexw.aspx?doc=Wikipedia

...

Le deuxième problème a trait avec la licence de nos images. Contrairement au texte qui est toujours sous GFDL, nos images peuvent être de différentes licenses, par domaine public ou variations des creative commons.

---- Le deuxième problème a trait avec les conditions accompagnant la diffusion de nos images. Contrairement au texte qui est toujours sous GNU FDL, les images de wikipedia peuvent utiliser différentes contrats de mise à dispositionos (comme les différentes variations des creative commons) ou appartenir au domaine public.

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Or, vous indiquez toujours la GNU FDL. Examples : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image% 3ACopenhagen_statue_of_Absalon.jpg http://lexicon.izynews.be/nl/lexw.aspx?doc=Afbeelding%3aCopenhagen% 20statue%20of%20Absalon.jpg Serait il possible que vous corrigiez ces deux problèmes ?

...

Merci encore d'utiliser notre contenu. En vous remerciant par avance de votre attention. Florence Devouard VP Wikimedia Foundation __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Timwi

28 May 28 May

6:36 p.m.

Anthere wrote:

...

Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du matériel provenant de Wikipedia, il est nécessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence.

Il n'est pas nécessaire de citer la source. Il est pourtant nécessaire de citer l'histoire de chaque article inclus les auteurs, et normalement nous recommandons aux utilisateurs de notre contenu de faire cela en liant à l'article original sur Wikipédia. Au moins, c'était toujours mon impression. :-) Timwi

Anthere

29 May 29 May

9:46 a.m.

Timwi a écrit:

...

Anthere wrote:

Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du matériel provenant de Wikipedia, il est nécessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence.

Normallement, ce n'est pas la source qui devrait être citée, mais les auteurs. En pratique, on observe que souvent, ce ne sont pas les auteurs qui sont cités, mais Wikipedia directement. Sur le net, les sites web pourraient faire l'effort de mettre un lien vers les auteurs... mais si l'article est réutilisé dans un livre par exemple... cela sera un peu compliqué :-) D'où une certaine tolérance vis à vis de ceux qui ne font que citer Wikipedia. Cela étant, je n'ai reçu aucune réponse de Izynews. Ni de modifications... JB, si d'ici une semaine aucune modification n'a été faite, penses tu que je doive leur écrire une seconde fois directement, ou devons nous commencer à donner une teinte plus juridique à l'affaire ? Anthere

Wouter Steenbeek

4:50 p.m.

...

Anthere wrote:

Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du matériel provenant de Wikipedia, il est nécessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence.

I guess you're right. It is even unusual for encyclopaedias to quote, unless it comes to information which is tied very strongly to one source. That is what sets encyclopaedias apart from scientifical publications. But I prefer you to hold this discussion in English, indeed to hold any discussion on this list in English. There will be a lot of people who are unable to read French... Wouter _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger doet het altijd en overal http://webmessenger.msn.com/

Anthere

6:05 p.m.

Wouter Steenbeek a écrit:

...

Anthere wrote:

Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du matériel provenant de Wikipedia, il est nécessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence.

I wrote in french for two reasons 1) there are apparently a good many people here who are currently forgetting that we are not in an english-restricted list. I think it is good to remind people from time to time that we are multilingual and that speaking english requires an effort for some of us. 2) second, the problem mentionned in terms of copyright only concerns the dutch, the french and the german wikipedias. When I write to a website publishing in french, dutch and german, I see no valid reason to write them in a fourth language. I will add that being allowed to speak in my language help me cooling down, keep faith in a multilingual project, and to avoid just plainly unregistering from this list as I have been seriously considering in the past few days. Ant

Mark Williamson

10:36 p.m.

D'accord Ant, ��ΤǤ��Z�Ǖ��ޤ��礦! (ekri nan lot lang ki nou pale / najuN kutubanu hwukaga wuti kaccana / cando podemus, iscriemus in sas limbas ��teras) Ccccccccccependant j' dois dire que dans la phrase japonaise, j'n'suis pas �� l'aise 100 % avec sa grammaire (sepedan m dwe di ke nan sa fraz japon��z, m se pa 100% konf��tab av��k sa gram��) Wouter pokipa ou ekri pa nan limborg��? Mark On 29/05/05, Anthere <anthere9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Wouter Steenbeek a ��crit:

Anthere wrote:

Toutefois, nous aimerions signaler que lorsque vous utilisez du mat��riel provenant de Wikipedia, il est n��cessaire de citer d'une part la source et d'autre part la licence.

Il n'est pas n��cessaire de citer la source. Il est pourtant n��cessaire de citer l'histoire de chaque article inclus les auteurs, et normalement nous recommandons aux utilisateurs de notre contenu de faire cela en liant �� l'article original sur Wikip��dia. Au moins, c'��tait toujours mon impression. :-) Timwi

-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE

Timwi

6:22 p.m.

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

...

But I prefer you to hold this discussion in English, indeed to hold any discussion on this list in English.

I am sure many people will "prefer" that, but that doesn't stop us from using other languages whenever we feel like it.

...

There will be a lot of people who are unable to read French...

There are people who are unable to read English. Picture that.

Wouter Steenbeek

6:35 p.m.

...

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

But I prefer you to hold this discussion in English, indeed to hold any discussion on this list in English.

I am sure many people will "prefer" that, but that doesn't stop us from using other languages whenever we feel like it.

There will be a lot of people who are unable to read French...

There are people who are unable to read English. Picture that.

Yes, but not one this list; at least I am confident that anyone having suscribed to this list can read English. The sole reason why I prefer English here (note: just *here*, not on Wikisource, Wikiquote, the commons etc.) is a practical one. It makes communication easier. I can very well read your French (but hardly respond in the same language, unfortunately) and - if necessary - German and Spanish as well, but I would be lost if people began to write in Chinese, Arabic or Swahili, though these are quite viable international languages in certain parts of the world. Others however might be willing to use languages like these. Anything posted here must be accesible to all of us, imo. I must stress I fully support multilinguality. Wouter Steenbeek _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger doet het altijd en overal http://webmessenger.msn.com/

Erik Moeller

7:05 p.m.

Hello Wouter, wikipedia-l explicitly allows posts in languages other than English, especially since intlwiki-l was merged into it. However, list members are encouraged to translate messages from one language into the other. This is a bit messy given the limits of the medium, but it's certainly possible - just post a translation as a reply. There are quite a few people for whom writing in English is a lot of effort, just like writing in French is for you and me. And of course there are people who don't speak English at all. These people should not be excluded -- they should be able to start discussions, which could be opened up to a larger group by anyone reading this list and being able to translate them into other languages. Of course, if you speak English, using it is a good way to reach the largest number of readers possible. But that is a decision that should be up to the original author of a message. NB: It appears that you sent something which was sent to you off-list to the public mailing list. Subjects like OFF or OFFLIST are generally used to indicate that something is private and not meant to be shared. Best, Erik

Wouter Steenbeek

7:10 p.m.

...

NB: It appears that you sent something which was sent to you off-list to the public mailing list. Subjects like OFF or OFFLIST are generally used to indicate that something is private and not meant to be shared.

Imo, it was quite serious so I could hardly imagine it was not intended for the mailing list. I just wanted everyone to know I at least support the sender of the mail you discuss here. But sorry then, I did not intend to do so. It is quite stupid: you see I'm a newbe. Should I unsubscribe then and let the whole goddamned wikipedia project lay aside forever? All of my contributions seem to be irrelevant. On language choice: It seems to be highly unusual that someone uses an other language than English. So one should have grave reasons to do so: it excludes others. Wouter _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger doet het altijd en overal http://webmessenger.msn.com/

Timwi

8:49 p.m.

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

...

It seems to be highly unusual that someone uses an other language than English. So one should have grave reasons to do so: it excludes others.

I believe that "I want to" is a pretty damn grave reason.

Angela

7:11 p.m.

New subject: Problème de copyrigh t dans l'usage de vos sources Wikipedia

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

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> Anything posted here must be accessible to all of us, imo.

I don't agree with this. If someone wants to post in a language other than English, I'd rather they do that than not post at all. We would risk missing out on a lot of news and issues from the others Wikipedias if we tried to enforce any sort of English-only policy here. If the message is on this list, it gives other people the opportunity to quickly translate it into English, or any other languages that might be useful to people reading the thread. It would be very difficult to prevent English-only speakers ever seeing another language in a project as multilingual as Wikipedia.

...

I can very well read your French (but hardly respond in the same language…)

Mark Williamson

10:44 p.m.

New subject: Problème de copyrig h t dans l'usage de vos sources Wikipedia

Angela l di trè byen. M ou raple souple ki Wikipedia se yon projè d plizyè lang, ankli limborgè-la ki ou-menm pale ak ekri. Mark On 29/05/05, Angela <beesley(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

> Anything posted here must be accessible to all of us, imo.

I can very well read your French (but hardly respond in the same language…)

I don't think anyone is claiming you do need to respond in the same language. I've posted English replies to the mailing lists of non-English Wikipedias with no complaints that I'm aware of - or maybe just no complaints I could read ;) Angela. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE

Ray Saintonge

10:20 p.m.

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

...

Wouter Steenbeek wrote:

But I prefer you to hold this discussion in English, indeed to hold any discussion on this list in English.

I am sure many people will "prefer" that, but that doesn't stop us from using other languages whenever we feel like it.

There will be a lot of people who are unable to read French...

There are people who are unable to read English. Picture that.

As a rule I write to this list in English, but if I want to respond to someone who has written in French I will do so in that language. I don't object to people using other languages, as long as they realize that I may have no clue about what they are saying. If I think that I adequately misunderstand, I will respond in English. I may even grace a response to Italian comments with "Va bene" before I switch to English. In no event will I complain about someone's use of another language. Ec

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participants (8)

Angela
Anthere
Erik Moeller
Jean-Baptiste Soufron
Mark Williamson
Ray Saintonge
Timwi
Wouter Steenbeek