There is a long and tedious history to this which your posting plainly
reveals your are unaware of.
I am certainly no advocate of blanket bans etc, however this is one which is
seriously belated, and our failure to act and remove the troubled and
troublesome Ms Hecht has severely set back work on several key areas of
historical work. Every effort has been made to accommodate her within the
programme and she has studiously and assiduously refused to comply with even
simple requests to conform with good or even acceptable practice.
The corollary of not banning the likes of Ms Hecht is that the historical
effort has to date lost two highly valued and valuable contributors: how
many more is her infantile and inflammatory gibberish to alienate before we
act? This is overdue and not precipitate action.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jaap van Ganswijk" <ganswijk(a)xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Helga banned
At 2002-09-09 10:19 -0700, Jimmy Wales wrote:
After much deliberation, and after due
consideration for all of the
arguments and discussions here, and taking into account what appears
to me to be a general consensus, I have chosen to ban Helga for a
period of 3 months.
Banned from what? This list? The English Wikipedia. All Wikipedia?
3 months is too long to ban people anyway. Try 2 days first, then
a week, then twice that.
As an European this reminds me of communism and nazisme.
Was she tried before a competent judge? Or before a jury of
How can new Wikipedia-aspirant writers expect to be treated
fairly whenever they will try to introduce a new aspect in
say 20 years when you are all over 40?
Anyway I think that legal matters like this should be handled
What I object most to, it that the subject itself may have
been disallowed to right to rebuttle.
After that time, she can reapply to me personally
Sure, and some sex on the side.
I know that not everyone will be happy with this
the vast majority will be.
Such is the nature of consensus.
The nature of consensus is that you achieve it first.
I can't wait for unanimity, or we will wait
Is there some voting mechanism or did you just ask your
I am fully aware of the dangers of precedent,
So don't do it.
which is why I have
waited so long to take action in this case.
Ok, so because you waited so long, it makes it
right? And from which did you ban here exactly?
Banning should always be a "last
Yes. Like the death penalty.
And we don't like that in Europe.
After more than a year of trying to work with
and after losing more than one highly valued contributor because of
So we lost one contributor, who may have had other
things to do (like me), and Helga is to blame!
Conflicts like this with Helga motivate
me to stay. Like my heroes Caesar, Machiavelli
etc. I like conflict.
we are now at a last resort stage.
No, don't over dramatize matters. Buy I good 3D-video-card
and play games like 'Gore', Unreal etc. to relax.
To my mind, the difficulty with Helga is not her
on history, but her inability or refusal to work co-operatively to
Strangeligy enough you seem to reverse the classical
pattern of man versus woman.
Even here, on the mailing list, where I invited
her to discuss these issues, she prefers to ignore discussions about
her posting style
Huh, you expect someone obviously new to the mailing
list fenomenon to immediately reflect on her own behaviour?
How un-in-touch-with reality are you?
in order to re-iterate accusations of censorship
to repeat her strange historical claims.
You should distinguish between asocial behaviour and
between having the 'wrong ideas'.
In order to contribute to a restoration of the
peace, I will be mostly
avoiding further public comment, although everyone who likes is more
than invited to write to me privately to support or decry this
And since this was done in public, I do this in public.
Helga, in particular, is welcome to write to me to
Sure and in exchange for sex perhaps?
but there is really no appeal possible at this
Why not? Ban me too!
Freedom of speech is not for the easy cases, but for the
cases that you'd like to censor.
The ban is not
permanent, and with good behavior, she can come back and try again in
3 months time.
Three months is like a life sentence for freedom of speech.
To manage your subscription to this list, please go here: