Hello Vegard, Mark, etc.,
An Old Norse project sounds fine with me -- either as a Wikipedia or as a Wiktionary. I am reasonably competent in Old Norse and can provide a bit of help along the way -- although I cannot promise to spend a lot of time on it, since there are so many other things I need to tend to also (including, first and foremost, the Nynorsk Wikipedia and the English one).
Arguments against an Old Norse Wikipedia might be its proximity to Icelandic -- to which it is so similar that the difference between normalised Old Norse and Icelandic orthography can be summed up in a handful mostly one-to-one rules. Thus, Old Norse -r after consonant corresponds to Icelandic -ur; the Old Norse O with ogonek (a C-like shape under) corresponds to Icelandic ö; Old Norse long ø corresponds to Icelandic æ; Old Norse -k in personal pronouns corresponds to Icelandic -g; and the Old Norse grammatical ending -t corresponds to Icelandic -ð. Otherwise, the morphology and syntax are mostly the same (with some archaic forms in Old Norse being lost in Icelandic), but Icelandic has undergone a relatively dramatic expansion of its vocabulary in the recent century or so.
Regarding the name, I suggest that the language be called norrnt (with oe digraph) or norrønt with acute accent over the ø (not possible to type in Eudora...). The name gamalnorska ("Old Norwegian") would not have been used as a self-designation in the time of Old Norse as a mother tongue. Also, the language was used both in Norway and Iceland, as well as as a mostly spoken language in Sweden and Denmark before the languages of these countries started to drift apart.
As for writing system, orthography etc., there is clearly a potential for disagreements there. My take on the matter would be that using the latin alphabet rather than the (Runic) Futhork makes the most sense, and that some degree of normalisation of the spelling is needed. (Should one write bók, bok, or boc, for instance?)
The wiki language code :non: sounds fine with me.
-Olve
At 22:54 03/01/2005 +0000, you wrote:
From: "Vegard Aukrust" vegara@stud.ntnu.no I want to start a Wikipedia page in old norse (gamalnorska), and I suggest the language code "gno".
From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com I'm not sure the current environment is the best place for a request regarding Old Norse. But anyhow, I have a question: will you use the runic script, or the latin script?
___________________
Olve Utne http://utne.nvg.org
Olve Utne wrote:
Hello Vegard, Mark, etc.,
An Old Norse project sounds fine with me -- either as a Wikipedia or as a Wiktionary. I am reasonably competent in Old Norse and can provide a bit of help along the way -- although I cannot promise to spend a lot of time on it, since there are so many other things I need to tend to also (including, first and foremost, the Nynorsk Wikipedia and the English one).
If you are interested in setting up content in Wiktionary, I am happy to help you set this up. There are several strategies, you can be part of a wiktionary in another language like any of the other Scandinavian languages or you can set up as an independent wiktionary. When you set up like part of another language, the Italian wiktionary is a model to follow, it is really great to see the large body of words in Napolitan (moving towards a 1000 words).
When you start to add words consider that in a wiktionary you would like to have both writing systems; we have these for several languages already. Chinese and Japanese are best developped on the cooperating wiktionaries. This would make the content much more usefull. Regarding different spellings you could either only select the preferred spelling (and perhaps note the alternate spellings as well) or you could have seperate entries with these spellings.
The wikimedia projects being ISO-639 oriented, a wikipedia project would indeed be with an existing code for old Norse. However, in the 639-3.4 version there are two codes for old Norse, non and onz are the TWO codes that are mentioned. It would be best to find out what the difference is between "Norse, old" and "old Norse". It may just be an inconsistency in this document that is in a "review and comment" phase.
As to Mark, I leave him alone as long as he keeps a civil tongue. I do not appreciate it when he attacks people like Yann. Mark can and does make good observations and, as I mentioned before discussions about languages are best kept on this list as it is important for how the wikipedia projects develop. So, as far as I am concerned, I will not attack Mark as long as he keeps a civil tongue, his accusing people of slander is not civil nor helpfull to his cause.
Thanks, GerardM
Apparently you do not realise that Yann has indeed slandered against me. He attacked me verbally with no provocation.
Mark
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:31:58 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote:
Olve Utne wrote:
Hello Vegard, Mark, etc.,
An Old Norse project sounds fine with me -- either as a Wikipedia or as a Wiktionary. I am reasonably competent in Old Norse and can provide a bit of help along the way -- although I cannot promise to spend a lot of time on it, since there are so many other things I need to tend to also (including, first and foremost, the Nynorsk Wikipedia and the English one).
If you are interested in setting up content in Wiktionary, I am happy to help you set this up. There are several strategies, you can be part of a wiktionary in another language like any of the other Scandinavian languages or you can set up as an independent wiktionary. When you set up like part of another language, the Italian wiktionary is a model to follow, it is really great to see the large body of words in Napolitan (moving towards a 1000 words).
When you start to add words consider that in a wiktionary you would like to have both writing systems; we have these for several languages already. Chinese and Japanese are best developped on the cooperating wiktionaries. This would make the content much more usefull. Regarding different spellings you could either only select the preferred spelling (and perhaps note the alternate spellings as well) or you could have seperate entries with these spellings.
The wikimedia projects being ISO-639 oriented, a wikipedia project would indeed be with an existing code for old Norse. However, in the 639-3.4 version there are two codes for old Norse, non and onz are the TWO codes that are mentioned. It would be best to find out what the difference is between "Norse, old" and "old Norse". It may just be an inconsistency in this document that is in a "review and comment" phase.
As to Mark, I leave him alone as long as he keeps a civil tongue. I do not appreciate it when he attacks people like Yann. Mark can and does make good observations and, as I mentioned before discussions about languages are best kept on this list as it is important for how the wikipedia projects develop. So, as far as I am concerned, I will not attack Mark as long as he keeps a civil tongue, his accusing people of slander is not civil nor helpfull to his cause.
Thanks, GerardM _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Mark Williamson stated for the record:
Apparently you do not realise that Yann has indeed slandered against me. He attacked me verbally with no provocation.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Slander: n. 1) [law] The utterance of defamatory statements injurious to the reputation or well-being of a person. 2) A malicious statement or report. tr.v. To utter damaging reports about. intr.v. To utter or spread slander. From Middle English sclaundre, from Old French esclandre, variant of escandle, from Latin scandalum ("scandal").
Mark
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:33:13 -0800, Sean Barrett sean@epoptic.org wrote:
Mark Williamson stated for the record:
Apparently you do not realise that Yann has indeed slandered against me. He attacked me verbally with no provocation.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
-- Sean Barrett | When I become evil overlord, I will sean@epoptic.com | dress in bright and cheery colors, and | so throw my enemies into confusion. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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