Re: [Wikipedia-l] Site becoming a bit disquieting

I don't think that 24 really understands the NPOV policy. 24 writes: "It remains to be see if people here wish to find the actual median of global human opinion." And also: "There are 6100 million potential readers of the wikipedia, long term, and views shared near-universally by 100-300 million of them just aren't good enough to qualify as neutral point of view, if there is serious dispute about them among the other 5800-6000 million people." But NPOV is not about finding the 'median' of human opinion, nor about presenting only views that are "shared near-universally" by only Western, technologically advanced, American, or whatever other group he means. The examples he gives of things that we wouldn't even want to have in the encyclopedia betray his misunderstanding. Selecting just one of them, "hate views of ethnic groups" is certainly something that Wikipedia should have an article on. But the wikipedia should take no position "for" or "against" those views, but should instead present those views in such a way that both proponents and detractors can mutually agree. Similarly, imagine that 24's hypothetical poll of the entire world shows that most beleive that "9/11 was caused by US foreign policy" -- what should the wikipedia say about that? Well, nothing less than that a poll of the entire world showed that a majority of the world believes that "9/11 was caused by US foreign policy". Hopefully our reporting on this fact would be enhanced by an NPOV discussion of the reasons why many people believe that, an NPOV discussion of what Americans believe, and why, and so on. His threat to post to indymedia.org to bring an onslaught of progressives is interesting and revealing, as well. Brion Vibber's response was correct: please do, go and bring them in. If lots of them come all at once, there will be a period of chaos while they come to understand our NPOV policies, but after that, those who can tolerate NPOV writing will stick around, and that'll be great. It'll help keep those of us who do not share their viewpoints "in line".

But if his indymedia.org friends want to violate the NPOV, then they will be just as unwelcome as, say, libertarians who come in and want to violate the NPOV. Even such "stupid" followers of Ayn Rand, as your humble host would be held to the fire just as heartily for NPOV violations.