Wikipedia-l December 2005

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

95 participants
102 discussions

Upcoming edit page layout changes
by Brion Vibber 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Several things: 1) The copyright message is moved up, between the main edit area and the summary/checkboxes/buttons. This is to ensure that it is visible; presently on a smallish screen it's possible to make thousands of edits without ever seeing the notice. This should also encourage site admins to keep the message short and legible. 2) A new message, MediaWiki:Edittools, is created which can hold those extended character insertion boxes that some wikis use (currently hacked into the copyright message). This message is now also displayed on the Special:Upload form, so it can be used when composing file descriptions. This displays below the buttons, so it's out of the way but not too far away. 3) The list of used templates is moved to the bottom, so it can grow as long as it gets without pushing other things down. This is online to try out on the test wiki at: http://test.leuksman.com/edit/Main_Page http://test.leuksman.com/view/Special:Upload (Log in to see the upload form.) Avar has expressed objection to putting the notice above the buttons, but I think it really *needs* to be if we want to pretend it means anything. Any final comments, and preparation for the change (splitting bits out from the copyright message) would be good to do; I plan to commit this change in the next day or two. cf. http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4100 Note: the charinsert stuff doesn't currently seem to work in Safari. Have to see about fixing that... -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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RE: [Wikipedia-l] the road to stability -- Yes! we have a winner!
by Poe, Marshall 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

SJ wrote: >Cooling/heating : generate a crude 'trussst' metric; (# of edits + length of activity) x (simple >factor), with (factor) inculding some aspect of community recognition. As an article cools, slowly raise the >level of trussst needed to edit it (and vice-versa). If a would-be editor tries to edit the page, artfully >redirect to the talk page or a temp subpage, saying "please add your suggested changes or modifications <a> >here</a>. If you would like to work on a temporary copy of this [section|article], you can do so <a>here</a>". This is a good idea. Simple, elegant, reasonably objective and mostly automated (low maintenance!). It would be interesting to "pressure test" on some sort of beta, just to see the how many ways people could thing to game it (and as we know, people are really clever...). Marshall Poe The Atlantic Monthly www.memorywiki.org

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Update on language codes and Wikidata/Ultimate Wiktionary
by Gerard Meijssen 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Hoi, I found a nice update on the ISO 639-3 website .. http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/default.asp is where you can even find a nice introductory page on the next version of this standard. For the hardcore language nuts among us there is even a nice download available including instructions on how to create an SQL table. In the first public genuine Wikidata outing, we will show you the GEMET data in a true Wikidata environment. For those who do not know, GEMET is a thesaurus with ecological content produced for/by the European Union. Our aim is to be able to have this on line before Christmas, it will be a read only implementation. We will also include the ISO-639-3 codes. As you may know, Wiktionary has the explicit aim to include all words of all languages. Ultimate Wiktionary (UW) shares this aim and shares the practice with the many wiktionary that we explicitly intent to include all lexicological content. As UW intends to eat its own dog food, we want to have localised labels for the languages chosen by the user for the User Interface. When localisation for a term is not available, we will have English as the lingua franca of this day and age. The consequence is that there will be a clear difference between the user interface of Ultimate Wiktionary and the user interface of Mediawiki. UW does not intent to endorse a language for new projects, but it is likely that people will be stimulated to work on the Mediawiki user interface in order to have a user interface that is completely localised. I expect that people appreciate this difference. In the ISO-639-3 codes there will be languages that have not been recognised. Having ISO-639 recognition is not necessary for inclusion in Ultimate Wiktionary.. There is only one thing that we will insist on, the acceptance of a code for this language, dialect or orthography that is acceptable for potential projects within the Wikimedia Foundation. Again, it is not to be seen as an endorsement for a language to have a project, it is intended to make sure that such a code has been "future-proofed". Thanks, GerardM

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moderation of mark williamson
by Elisabeth Bauer 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Hi, I usually don't read the postings of Mark Williamson (only the answers to his) but now I accidentally saw that he has forwarded the private email of another wikipedian to the list. Add to this the frequent flame-wars and attacks on people... Watching the list degrade into endless fights about absurd language proposals, in my opinion it's enough. I switched his account to moderated now. greetings, elian

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Translation wiki proposal
by SJ 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Dear Wiki*edians & especially polyglots : In the spirit of Thanksgiving, being thankful as ever for these polylingual projects (I just won a bet with a Chilean about his home town, referencing spanish wp articles :), I would like to propose a new one (gasp!) : an all-language wiki devoted to language overviews, language proposals, interface localization (text, images, &c), and translations of core Wikimedia and MediaWiki messages. Similar proposals have been floated before, with little discussion; here is another attempt on the theme. * Name : babel.wikimedia.org ? * Main Page : a list of languages by, say, # of native speakers/readers [1], with prominent links to other views (by language-cluster, by geographic region, by article-count, by reader popularity...), information on translators & translation, and language statistics [2]. * Content : All localizable MediaWiki strings, in 200+ languages [3]. Portals for each language, describing work being done to develop that language, with portal-content in a few core language + the lang in question. All localizable custom strings for Wikimedia projects, in those languages. Key strings and messages (such as site-wide notice templates) which are used regularly and needed in every language. Policy and discussion pages about new language creation. ** Optional content : Other translation efforts, such as global press releases, which work through a high volume of content (thousands of edits in dozens of languages) in a short period of time. ** Related project : a specific "interface-translation wiki" for the latest MediaWiki installation, which auto-updates the localizable strings in the latest MW version.[4] Please comment or indicate support for the idea on meta: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_new_projects#Babel_Wiki [1] Not just readers; if there's no written language, audio output and input are excellent ways to transfer information... we've been doing that for eons longer than we've been passing around printed bytes [2] % completion of interface translation; # of self-identified 'translators' in and out of the lang; full list of wikimedia projects in that lang w/origin-dates, article and active-editor counts; links to key pages on target wikis [3] Eventually significantly more than 200. [3'] It may be useful to have one template/page per string per language, to facilitate automatic conversion from wiki to other formats; multiple views of l10n strings (e.g., 2 langs side-by-side on one page as in Special:Allmessages). ~200 languages x (200 custom strings x 5 Wikimedia Projects + 1000 standard strings) = O(500K) pages, worth its own project. [4] These ideas could be merged; or that project (say, at language.mediawiki.org) could offer ways to pull content from the appropriate section of the Babel wiki (and more security safeguards). ++SJ

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the road to stability
by Kai Kumpf 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

i know this topic keeps reoccuring and so my point may not be very original. it has been said that wikipedia is "work in progress" and will probably continue to to so. on the other hand it ails from the fact that at no given point in time you can be certain to have a 1. consistent , 2. unvandalized and 3. correct throughout wikipedia. (compared to those three points the shortcoming of non-completeness dwindles to almost nothing.) let me draw your attention to the fact that the construction plans for roads to stability - or at least local optima - have long been laid out by physics. heat a dynamic system quickly then let it cool down in a slower and controlled fashion, allowing less and less dramatic changes to take place as time passes. simulated annealing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing) is the magic spell that might work for wikixyzs in a way similar to that in the real world. the rationale behind my suggestion is of course that articles that have matured over time are statistically speaking less likely to improve when large modifications are made than relatively new ones. some of the articles have reached a stage where well-meant editing effectively mucks up the inner structure and logic. what i think reasonable is to lift the threshold for substantial edits, maybe not by limiting access but by asking for more substantial background information from the authors (references, printed, electronic,...) than the simple comment line. there is to much unproven and partially unprovable information in the wp. that could have been prevented long ago by obliging the authors to give references for their information. besides, this task would make it successively harder to simply put established statements upside down. whereas scientific journals have peer review, wp only offers the weak weapons of discussion pages and reverts - by others, mostly admins, i guess. why not confer a little bit more of responsibility to the authors? he/she could be aided by predefined lists, checkboxes, comboboxes (for ref. type, etc.) i find myself increasingly involved in hunting down vandals and their work - partly due to the ease of use wp offers for non-serious edits, too, and i can't help feeling that a larger and larger part of wp keeps a larger and larger part of the community busy with just keeping up the existing standard. comments? best kai (kku)

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"Encyclopedia WIKIMANIA - einem Projekt der Infochannel Group"
by SJ 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

I love it. 0 users, 10 articles, much copyviolation and trademark abuse. ( 0 Benutzer; 10 Artikel; viele Urheberrechts- und Markenrechts(?)verletzungen ) At least they're good enough to list their names and contact details on the main page: http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Hauptseite "Willkommen in der Wikimania! Die Wikimania ist keine freie Enzyklopädie. Jeder eingeladene User kann mit seinem Wissen beitragen und die Artikel direkt im Browser bearbeiten. Seit November 2005 haben wir 10 Artikel in deutscher Sprache verfasst. Gute Autoren sind immer willkommen – die ersten Schritte sind ganz einfach! ...Weitere Informationen zur Wikimania" http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Wikimania:%C3%9Cber_Wikiman… http://www.wikimania.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Spezial:Recentchanges If the term isn't being pursued for protection yet, it should be... should this have gone to info-de instead? ++SJ

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Re: [Foundation-l] Most read US newpaper blasts Wikipedia
by SJ 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Delirium wrote: > Perhaps we should make the disclaimers more prominent? There are plenty of > possible ways people could be damaged other than libel---for example, someone > could rely on a wholly made-up bit of medical advice. Let us by all means make disclaimers more prominent. It is too late for the project not to be successful -- from a position of strength the community can afford to be more self-critical, and even to start generating our own harsh statistics on how [in]accurate or [un]referenced our content is. More suited to wikipedia-l, since we're talking about that; re-adding it to the Cc: list. --SJ

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] In those times of ... well, doubt.
by daniwo59＠aol.com 02 Dec '05

02 Dec '05

Thank you, Delphine. I think we all needed that. Danny

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In those times of ... well, doubt.
by Delphine Ménard 01 Dec '05

01 Dec '05

A little sweet something, since only the ones in the back of the room see those. Chosen extracts from OTRS (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS) Names of people, places and emails have been removed. Have a smile. ;-) === You All at Wikipedia kick some serious ASS!! I was trying to figure out how to site a page from your website, when low and behold I found that you not only had citation information, but you also already had the MLA format ready to go. I just wanted to say thank you for making my citation soooo easy!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! H. === I wanted to thank you for creating such a wonderful and accessible product, and would like to suggest to you... [snip good suggestion] Thanks again for making me smarter, C. === my name is [snip] and I'm from Slovakia. I'm using your site only a few weeks(since I connected to the Internet),but I think is great! Great idea, great posts, great site, WIKIPEDIA IS GREAT !!! For me it's unvaluable source of informations. When I will earn some money, I will donate. Stay as you are in present - don't change to one of information-traders. !!! THANKS FOR HELPING WORLD - THANKS FOR WIKIPEDIA !!! ==== Subject: Just a thank you I just wanted someone in your organization to know that I love your website! I do not know who invented it, but it is most often the website I go to when I want to know something about a subject. It is a place to start for almost EVERYTHING! ==== Hello. I just wish to say how very great such a site as Wikipedia is. Kudos to all within the organisation, and keep up the great work. Thank you really. C. === Dear creators of this website, I am a 21 year old Political Science major at the University of [snip]. I would just like to comment on this website, because its amazing. There is so much information, and it is always accurate. I use this website often when doing research for essays, and the information based on the world wars is fantastic. Please keep up the good work, because you are making the lives of students like me much easier. === You people (ie, Wiki administrators) really are among the most efficient I've ever dealt with! Keep up the fantastic work, and have a great weekend!! M. - (Attorney at Law) === etc. etc. These are just a few I could whip out, but I thought it would help us remember that we are *also* doing a good job. Thanks all. Best, Delphine -- ~notafish

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Wikipedia-l December 2005