Wikipedia-l October 2005

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

80 participants
91 discussions

Re: Ant: [Wikipedia-l] Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia - a policy question?
by elephantus 14 Oct '05

14 Oct '05

> In the future sh.wiki hopes to implement an automatic converter > between Cyrillic, Latin, Ijekavski, and Ekavski, so these > stylistic/dialect/variety issues won't be a problem anymore. > > Now, with such conversion, you wouldn't have to worry about edit wars > over what norm is used, because no matter what norm it is written in, > it is displayed in the chosen norm (possibly based on IP range-- users > in Croatia and Bosnia get Ijekavian, users in Serbia get Ekavian; > users in Croatia, Bosnia, and Montenegro get Latin alphabet, users in > Serbia get Cyrillic, but of course you can change these preferences). > > Mark Differences between standard Serbian and Croatian are larger than just differences of ekavian/ijekavian. A text in Serbian converted to ijekavian feels to us just a little less Serbian (somewhat Bosnian) than the original, it's not somehow magically transformed into Croatian. And please, don't throw NPOV phrases at me, because how on earth are you going to NPOV-ize loads of technical, scientific and everyday vocabulary, syntax etc.? Do you plan to write slashes between variants? Write the same sentence twice? Believe me, all of this has been tried before, immense force, threats, everything was applied and the end result was the same – zero. Elephantus (from Croatian Wikipedia) -- Odaberite XXLadsl i iskoristite 60 dana neograničenog surfanja za samo 1 kn! Uz svaki XXLadsl poklanjamo Iskonov glazbeni CD. http://www.iskon.biz/xxladsl

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The first phase of Serbian extension to MediaWiki is done
by Milos Rancic 13 Oct '05

13 Oct '05

(This mail goes to wikipedia-l and foundation-l just as an announce. I assume that we should talk at mediawiki-l mailing list.) We are at the end of the first phase. Brane Jelisavcic finalized Zhengzhu's work. It is working now on http://conversion.vikimedija.org/ (using MediaWiki 1.5rc4). If anyone has some questions about that, please, ask it here because Brane reads this list. We want to implement this extension on Serbian Wikipedia. What should we do for that? (I.e., is it enough to ask here, or we should ask for it somewhere else?) After the implementation of this part, we would start to work on the next phase (read-write access to all variants).

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Seeking image manipulation websites
by Lars Aronsson 13 Oct '05

13 Oct '05

Are there any photo / image websites (similar to flickr.com) that allow the user to manipulate (i.e. edit) the uploaded images, similar to running Gimp or Photoshop but as a web application? I was thinking about this functionality for Wikimedia Commons, so I'm seeking some inspirational examples to look at. Are there any? -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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Fwd: Wikipedia interview with Rich Mullins
by David Gerard 12 Oct '05

12 Oct '05

I got a note on my talk page, and I just answered it. Here's what I said. (Angela, if you would like me in the pool for UK interviews, feel free to send 'em my email and I might even send you my mobile number - though I almost never answer it by day and it goes to message.) - d. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> Date: Oct 11, 2005 11:36 PM Subject: Wikipedia interview To: rmullins(a)tampatrib.com Hi Richard - I got your note on my talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:David_Gerard&diff=25298… Assuming this was actually you ;-) then I'd be most happy to do an interview :-) Time for a phone or instant-message interview is a tricky one if you're in a hurry, but I can do email very conveniently. I see you left a pile of notes on article talk pages wanting to talk to people who wrote the articles - possibly a quicker way would be to look through the history (which lists all revisions to an article ever, though you may have to go back several pages through busy ones ;-) and then put notes on their talk pages, if they're still around. And now, to answer your questions: "I'd love to hear what interested you about Wikipedia." I first started using it in December 2003. I'd heard about it, seen it come up in Google searches sometimes and had mild curiosity about it. Then my wife said to have a look at it ... and I started editing. (I just asked her and she says I drew her into it! She's [[User:Redcountess]]) "I'd love to know how often you work on entries and what your particular area of interest is." I've edited *all manner* of things. I've been working heavily on Scientology-related articles of late - I am apparently what passes for an expert (I have a website at http://www.suburbia.net/~fun/scn/ ) and wrote about half the article on [[Xenu]] - the one that's quoted directly in just about EVERY article on Tom Cruise in the past few months. Which I'm very pleased by! (And we have a new one, [[Space opera in Scientology doctrine]], which is even better.) I also write about Australian indie rock bands (another specialist area of mine), computer and technical topics, anything else I notice needs an article ... I also use Wikipedia as a reference, particularly in technical or computer areas - it's actually a reliable encyclopedia in these areas in my experience. And I'll edit anything that needs a bit of a copyedit or clearer writing. It's very nice being able to fix simple errors. "Also, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the accuracy of the system and what you think of errors added to the entries." People adding errors to "test" the system are a pain in the backside. See [[Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point]]. Anyone can do it, and anyone can take a dump in public; it doesn't make it a good or decent idea. As for the general accuracy ... in technical areas, it's good enough to actually use. I understand it's that good in mathematics. I'm sure there are other areas I don't know of where it's that good. I understand we're the world's best Pokemon resource ;-) There are many areas we don't cover as well as we'd like to, but we're trying to be aware of this. There's always going to be a certain percentage of articles that are great, some that are okay and some that are very sketchy and have "Under Construction" signs on them. The encyclopedia's expanding all the time, so the numbers for each of these percentages will always increase. We're working on article rating systems to try to make it easier for people to find the good stuff without hampering the works in progress or the process of making them. If you have other questions, please do email me. If you really want to do a phoner, my phone number is +44 xxxx xxx xxx - time here is presently BST, which is GMT +1. If my phone goes to message, please leave a message! - thanks, David.

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Re: Ant: [Wikipedia-l] Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia - a policy question?
by elephantus 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

>I don't know how much different the languages/dialects are. I do know >that from both sides people are moving towards separate languages. If >we consider languages to be variations with at least a given amount of >difference, they are indeed dialects of the same language. But if we >consider languages to be dialects with a special formal status, >they're different languages. For an illustration of the differences between the standard Serbian and Croatian, I'd like to use an economic comparison: If I were buying a paper encyclopedia with the same content, but, say, translated into both Serbian Latin and Croatian, I'd be willing to pay probably around 50% more for the Croatian translation, simply because it's easier to use for me, it's more comfortable etc. If the encyclopedia were in Serbian Cyrillic it would be almost worthless to me, except as a curiosity (I can read Cyrillic, albeit slower). And I was born before the downfall of Yugoslavia and have read (and own) many books in Serbian. The younger generations would probably be even more uncomfortable reading Serbian. Elephantus (from the Croatian Wikipedia) -- Odaberite XXLadsl i iskoristite 60 dana neograničenog surfanja za samo 1 kn! Uz svaki XXLadsl poklanjamo Iskonov glazbeni CD. http://www.iskon.biz/xxladsl

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Re: Ant: [Wikipedia-l] Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia - a policy question?
by elephantus 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

> I don't want to force anything on anyone, but I reallythink that everybody would be better off here > with a single WP whereall standards is converted and/or accepted.MarkOn I read all of your e-mails. I thought about this carefully, it's not a whim or anything. On the matter of unity vs. separateness: Bitter (and sometimes bloody) experience has shown us that any gains made by having a larger number of speakers/writers are more than offset by the energy wasted in petty bickering and/or ill-will generated by the neccessary compromises on many things. Normally, I wouldn't have anything against ill-informed people trying this out one more time for themselves and banging their head against a wall, but in this case I'm interested in the well-being and progress of Croatian Wikipedia. I tried to put a banner on the Main Page pointing the way to the three other Wikipedias after several people asked me why the Croatian Wikipedia is named "Serbocroatian". You, Dejvid and Pokrajac removed this without a word of explanation, even calling it "vandalism". Now you may or may not be aware of this, but many people from the former Yugoslavia, when they see a project (organization, institution) having a "Serbocroatian" section automatically assume that people there haven't yet switched to the three separate languages and simply turn around and walk away. This is what I'd like to avoid. Elephantus (from the Croatian Wikipedia) -- Odaberite XXLadsl i iskoristite 60 dana neograničenog surfanja za samo 1 kn! Uz svaki XXLadsl poklanjamo Iskonov glazbeni CD. http://www.iskon.biz/xxladsl

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IRC : change of channels and ownership of ... channels
by Anthere 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

Hello; I post it here, though it is not restricted to wikipedia. But many read this list, so that might do. Freenode is changing is channel naming policy. The channel names beforehand #xx.wikipedia will be changed in #wikipedia-xx Some people already reported that some of these channels (like the spanish one) were already registered by unknown people... or people who have left the projects. If this is the case of your language channel, please do together agree on a new owner, then please contact Fennec to make the change : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fennec Fennec is the contact for freenode. Thanks Anthere

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Re: IRC : change of channels and ownership of ... channels
by Ilya N. 10 Oct '05

10 Oct '05

By the way...does anyone use #wikipedia-en ? Or do all the english speaking people simply hang out at #wikipedia ? -- ~Ilya N.

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ko moved to kr
by Tim Starling 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Cross-posted to wikitech-l and wikipedia-l because I thought there might be wider interest. People reading via Gmane might see a duplicate. The master database server for the Korean Wikipedia has now been moved to our cluster in Korea. The switch went quite well, with no downtime and only half an hour of read-only time, most of that due to me mucking around with the configuration and fixing bugs. All Apache processing for that wiki is now done in Korea, including serving images. Only commons images are drawn from Florida. This is a pilot for full utilisation of the Yahoo cluster, eventually we'll move ja and the other East Asian wikis there. For now, the Koreans have a big cluster all to themselves, so they should expect to get pages back faster than you can blink at any time of the day or night. A life of sheer bliss that the rest of us can only dream of :) -- Tim Starling

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Milestone Announcement
by Mark Williamson 09 Oct '05

09 Oct '05

Hi everybody, I would like to announce that just in the last couple days the Serbocroatian Wikipedia crossed the 1000-article mark. It is fast growing now -- already it is nearly 1/4 the size of the Bosnian WP, 1/10 the size of the Croatian WP, and 1/15 the size of the Serbian WP. It is my hope that at some point in the future, probably when sh.wiki reaches a bigger number of articles, that these three Wikipedias can, by a democratic vote, unite and all use sh.wiki together although it will take a lot of work to get there. One reason for the fast growth is that most articles are not new material, but rather are based on the existing articles from the Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian WPs. This means that there are nearly 30.000 articles to draw from, although there is a certain degree of overlap. Cheers Mark -- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE

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Wikipedia-l October 2005