Wikimy-l July 2008

wikimy-l@lists.wikimedia.org

7 participants
28 discussions

Re: [WikiMy-l] Fwd: Wikia e-mail
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

How come you say The News is not relevent to you or Htoo Myint Naung? That is how you claim to other people, isn't? That is how you claim to funding agency, isn't? Please also see how Ravi told about you<http://my.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship#.28-.29_Oppose>and Ko Ngwe Tun told about you<http://myanmaritpros.com/forum/topic/show?id=1445004%3ATopic%3A43215&page=4…>. You got to say exactly what you did. Not more. Good luck, Okisan On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:36 PM, Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>wrote: > At 22:10 +0900 2008-07-26, Kyaw Tun wrote: > > >>>You have to defend it. > >> > >>I do not have to defend the Anawrahta against your false accusation. > > > >I think if you read > ><http://myanmaritpros.com/forum/topic/show?id=1445004%3ATopic%3A46587 > >this > >post, it will clear why it happens. > > This does not explain why you said many times on a public forum that > Anawrahta is a "fake" Unicode project. What you said was false. I > told you it was false. You should retract your false statement and > apologize. > > I have also told you MANY MANY TIMES that I had nothing to do with > the interview in the Myanmar Times. No one from that organization > ever contacted me. Furthermore, you blame BOTH Htoo Myint Naung and > me on the very thread you just posted for the content of the article > in the Myanmar Times. The person who is ultimately responsible for > that content is the reporter, not Htoo Myint Naung, and certainly not > me. > > It is SHAMEFUL for you to say, here, again, that "they are claiming > what they are not". I have made no false claims. I have on MANY > occasions told you that you are making false claims about me and my > work and I have asked you to stop. Here you have done it again. > > I worked very hard to get the UTC and WG2 to accept the changes that > FIXED the problems the Myanmar 4.1 encoding had. That was not easy, > and had it not been done, computing in the Burmese language and in > the minority languages of your country could not have been > accomplished. Since then I have helped to encode even more Myanmar > characters for minority languages. Yet you say nothing about these > accomplishments. You say nothing about this service to your nation. > > You're welcome. > > >>>I follow on facts. > >> > >>It is a fiction of your own. I know perfectly well that Anawrahta > >>exists, and I have told you so. Therefore for you to continue to > >>maintain a page about it being a "fake" is a sign of bad faith on > >>your part. > > > >Anawrahta does exist. I never deny. The fake is there because such > >small thing talk like a big. Please read the above post. It is not > >mine. > > The words "fake Unicode project" means that Anawrahta does not exist. > It is an act of bad faith for you to maintain a web page claiming > that it is "fake". > > >Except my downright critic, I am responsible and describe to the > >best of my knowledge. > > I have corrected your knowledge several times and all you have done > is told me that you were right after all. That is most regrettable. > -- > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimy-l mailing list > Wikimy-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimy-l >

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Re: [WikiMy-l] Fwd: Wikia e-mail
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Michael Everson <everson(a)evertype.com>wrote: > At 20:12 +0900 2008-07-26, Kyaw Tun wrote: > >You have to defend it. > > I do not have to defend the Anawrahta against your false accusation. I think if you read this post<http://myanmaritpros.com/forum/topic/show?id=1445004%3ATopic%3A46587>, it will clear why it happens. > > > >It is public testimonial. > > It is a public slander. NO. > > > >I follow on facts. > > It is a fiction of your own. I know perfectly well that Anawrahta > exists, and I have told you so. Therefore for you to continue to > maintain a page about it being a "fake" is a sign of bad faith on > your part. Anawrahta does exist. I never deny. The fake is there because such small thing talk like a big. Please read the above post. It is not mine. > > > >How come you demand to remove it before replying in > ><http://myanmaritpros.com/forum/topic/show?id=1445004%3ATopic%3A47521>the > >forum? > > I have already wasted time on that forum, and I already DID explain > on that forum that your accusation was false. You left exactly the FAKE part. > > > >I am very responsible person. I am a researcher and very careful > >about wording and tried all statement supported. Anything there, I > >will elaborate upon request. > > I don't believe you. You have insulted me publicly, you have not > accepted the civil explanation which I gave on your forum. MMITPros is the most respected and technically competent forum for Myanamr IT community. > > > >But first note, this start on media statement, not me. > > I had nothing to do with the media statement. Yet you used it to > cause harm to me, to my reputation, to the reputation of the Myanmar > Wikipedia, and to Ko Htoo Myint Naung. > > That is shameful, and it is not the sign of a "very responsible > person" who is "careful" about wording. > -- > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com > > Except my downright critic, I am responsible and describe to the best of my knowledge. Okisan

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Re: [WikiMy-l] reply for Mr. Wales
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

> > > >People even think Unicode Font is government stuff. > > It *is* government stuff, from a certain point of > view -- it is an ISO standard. ISO has its > mandate from the United Nations. The Union of > Myanmar is not a Participating Member in the work > of the ISO Subcommittee responsible for the > Universal Character set, but your government did > send experts (including U Ngwe Tun) to help us do > the work, and indeed they invited me to come and > help sort the problems out. > > > My statement is not to interpret literally. Please ask your partner, Myint Htoo Naing, what I mean it is. If it looks like government stuff, it is very difficult to get people trust. Okisan

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Re: [WikiMy-l] reply for Mr. Wales
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

> > > >4. Free Unicode fonts offer low quality. As > >webmastering in many web sites, I know all three > >Unicode 5.1 fonts are not visually acceptable > >quality. > > This is your opinion. > > > OK. I got to be straight. Free Unicode 5.1 are just for show. End user need to purchase a commercial 5.1 font for formal document and quality web site. Only myanmar3 is acceptable for formal document, but it is not design for web. Okisan

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Re: [WikiMy-l] Fwd: Wikia e-mail
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

> > > Publish what you like. Unicode 5.1 is the encoding for the Myanmar > script, and that is not going to change. > -- > How come you can change 5.1? I means later version.

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Re: [WikiMy-l] reply for Mr. Wales
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

> > >2. Myanmar Unicode has history of breaking > >previous version and luck of migration support. > >It is rather strange that there is NO convertor > >available for myanmar1 (Unicode 4.0) to myanmar2 > >(Unicode 4.1) or myanmar2 to myanmar3 (Unicode > >5.1). > > It isn't Unicode's place to make such a > converter. The owners of myanmar1, myanmar2, and > myanmar3 should have a care for the problem. But > there *are* converters available for text > conversion.not take the burdon. Show me a web link? Okisan

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Re: [WikiMy-l] Fwd: Wikia e-mail
by Michael Everson 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

At 20:12 +0900 2008-07-26, Kyaw Tun wrote: >You have to defend it. I do not have to defend the Anawrahta against your false accusation. >It is public testimonial. It is a public slander. >I follow on facts. It is a fiction of your own. I know perfectly well that Anawrahta exists, and I have told you so. Therefore for you to continue to maintain a page about it being a "fake" is a sign of bad faith on your part. >How come you demand to remove it before replying in ><http://myanmaritpros.com/forum/topic/show?id=1445004%3ATopic%3A47521>the >forum? I have already wasted time on that forum, and I already DID explain on that forum that your accusation was false. >I am very responsible person. I am a researcher and very careful >about wording and tried all statement supported. Anything there, I >will elaborate upon request. I don't believe you. You have insulted me publicly, you have not accepted the civil explanation which I gave on your forum. >But first note, this start on media statement, not me. I had nothing to do with the media statement. Yet you used it to cause harm to me, to my reputation, to the reputation of the Myanmar Wikipedia, and to Ko Htoo Myint Naung. That is shameful, and it is not the sign of a "very responsible person" who is "careful" about wording. -- Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com

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Re: [WikiMy-l] Fwd: Wikia e-mail
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

> > >I see > ><http://myanmaritpros.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1445004:BlogPost:44018>a > >lot of wrong design in previous and current Myanmar Unicode models. > >I really hate cover up with We Are Standard words. > > Unicode is the international, world standard for the encoding of text > in the Myanmar script. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. The > best minds in this industry have recognized that there were problems > with Unicode 4.1 (mostly having to do with support for minority > languages) and Unicode 5.1 corrects this. > -- > > I seems like I got to publish this paper to prove it. Okisan

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Fwd: Wikia e-mail
by Kyaw Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

Dear All, I have forwarded my proposal of creating new Wikipedia with Zawgyi font to Mr Wales. This show our purpose of creating myanmarwikipedia.org as well as imitating Wikipedia theme. I wish he also forward his reply too. All wikipedia logo from myanmarwikipedia.org will be removed immediately if and only if it is not allow legally. Best regards, Okisan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kyaw Tun <kyawtuns(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Wikia e-mail To: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> Dear Mr Whales, You can find *Recipe for Myanmar Monhinga* in more than 100 ways just by googling. But you have to use Zawgyi font. Virtually all Myanmar web sites use Zawgyi encoded font. This include all media web site like VOA. Zawgyi encoding is non-standard and have to be eliminated grandually by Unicode 5.1 encoded font. But for the time being, people don't like other font than Zawgyi. So I suggest you to make a temporary Zawgyi encoded Myanmar Wikipedia sharing the same database with my.wikipedia.org. So people can happily contribute. You can terminate Zawgyi wikipedia in appriorate time. We are doing the on-the-fly font conversion of Zawgyi<-->Unicode 5.1 in http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org. We have such convertor for C++, C#, Python and javascript module. However we don't have PHP, so a bit of problem. Currently we are thing using Python module under mode_proxy, so that Python process is keep alife under PHP process. ICU module <http://au2.php.net/intl> is also not very application here. We are also doing CSS guideline for Burmese web document here<http://www.openroad.net.au/dev/wiki/doku.php/css/burmese_language>, which is integrated in our Users' Myanmar Wikipedia<http://www.myanmarwikipedia.org/>. As you see, we did one year work of my.wikipedia.org in one weeks. We be note our home page do not contain commerical outbound links as you can see home page of my.wikipedia.org. Also please note, active contributors in Users' Myanmar Wikipedia is greater than current my.wikipedia.org. We don't need costly translation Mr Wales, as proposed by Mr Micheal Sverson. Best regards, Okisan On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com> wrote: > Kyaw Tun wrote: > >> Myanmar contributors are quite strong but very disappointed with Myanmar >> Wikipedia. >> > > Thank you for your advice! > > Can you tell me what is disappointing to the contributors? How can we > help? >

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converter discussion
by Ngwe Tun 26 Jul '08

26 Jul '08

Hi Michael Michael wrote as No. That's not enough, because a user could look at a page with a Unicode 4.1 font -- and get an unreadable result. Or a user could look at a pseudo-Unicode font like Zawgyi (and there are others) You aware that our bad situation. How can we make readable result. Yes, we need to put online converter in mediawiki in migration period. After stable enough in Burmese rendering, we do not need converter certainly. *They may or may not have support for minority-langauge characters or for some special Sanskrit-language shaping behaviour (important for Buddhist terminology.)* Are we talking on Burmese Language, right. Others Minority Language should be consider when we have technical specification like UTN1 http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn11/myanmar_uni-v2.pdf. We do not have representation in Sanskrit, Mon, Shan and Karen. So, shall we start to use my.wikipedia.org without Sanskrit and minority-language. And we could do other minitoriy language wikipedia in near future. *We don't want people creating text using Unicode 4.1 fonts or Zawgyi or other non-conformant fonts. We want text to be conformant, interchangeable, cut-and-pasteable, and so on.* Exactly, I agree you voices. We are enforcing to use Unicode conformant solution. But we need to take care other people who are lack in technical. They can't upgrade uniscribe rendering engine. Or They had a lot of article with Zawgyi. Why not we support those people. I'm ensure that we will make converter as javascript. Everybody may happy to use it with *no cost* See you. Ngwe Tun -- In Burmese; Ngwe mean 1) Silver 2) Money 3) Second Awards; Tun mean 1) Light 2) be prominent.

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