Yes, that's the latest version. I'm happy to accept any changes to the freedom of panorama as it's not something in which I am an expert.
Thanks,
Stevie
On 13 September 2013 13:22, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Is the latest version still at
https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf
?
If so, the FoP text on page 3 could still do with some improvement.
Michael
On 9 Sep 2013, at 14:41, Stevie Benton wrote:
Hello everyone,
A quick update on this. I've uploaded another new version to the link shared previously. There is some further updated copy, including content on freedom of panorama. I have also managed to fix the font issue - the ligatures have now been removed.
I'd like to get this to print soon so if I could have any further feedback by the end of Wednesday that would be great. I can then run off a final proof before sending to the printer.
Thanks and regards,
Stevie
On 5 September 2013 15:32, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Hello again everyone.
I've spent a little time updating the document based on the feedback I've been offered. There a new (draft) version at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf (thanks for that suggestion Mike!) but please note this is still a work in progress and not ready for use.
A couple of things I need to address specifically:
- Font issue - I am still experiencing this then the letter t follows
s or c. It's very odd. If anyone knows why this happens, or how I can perhaps fix it without having to change the entire font set in the document I'd be very grateful!
- Mike, your point about the bullets on p3 is noted. The issue is to
do with the image wrapping. I'll try and fix this for the final draft if people think this is a major issue.
- Missing bracket by the media icon on page 6 - this was to do with
the replacement fonts. The icon hasn't actually been inserted as an image for some reason - no idea why, but this makes it nearly impossible to move. I've come up with a work-around.
- Public domain text on p11 - I've amended this to make it more
relevant for the UK but I'm no copyright expert so I'd be grateful if someone can sense check it please.
- Freedom of panorama - Martin suggested we have some text about this
for p3 If someone could oblige with a single snappy sentence that would be very helpful indeed.
- Version number, contact details and URL - these have been added
(although the URL is simply a placeholder at this point).
Mike, you asked about the lifespan of the document before it needs refreshing, pointing out the screenshots with the number of files etc are out of date. I think the document is fundamentally sound (with a couple of amends noted above, before a final proof) but it would make sense to review it very few months (or when the time arrives to re-order) to make sure there are no major problems. Those figures will always be out of date, no matter how speedy the turnaround ;-)
Please do let me know what you think and I'll prepare the next draft. Thank you,
Stevie
On 30 August 2013 12:38, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Very useful. I'll do some more work on the InDesign file and share an updated draft next week.
Mike, I think the font issue is because I'm using replacement fonts in InDesign as I don't have the same set as the WMF. I'll take a closer look but will probably involve changing the replacement font. Shouldn't be too difficult. Your suggested amends to the copy look sensible too, I'll work through them.
Martin, the idea of a version number and a URL is useful. I'll add those in. I'll also check out the labelling issue, too.
Stevie
On 29 August 2013 11:08, Martin Poulter infobomb@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for your work on this, Stevie. I think this is an exciting development. I agree with you that it's okay to have two or three pages with a non-white background, so long as the bulk of the document has a white background.
When I look at the top of page 7, under the heading "Placing files using wikicode" the code in the example is the wrong font size (viewed in Chrome, which might not be rendering the font correctly). Thus the two closing square brackets are not under the label "two closing square brackets". One page 3, under "what is allowed on Commons", this is where we need some mention of the UK position on freedom of panorama, but this is an area I'm relatively clueless in, so someone more clueful should chime in. On page 11, the link "Help:Public domain" is in a smaller font than the surrounding text.
It's a good idea to have a version number in any printed document, e.g. "UK version 1.0, published September 2013", along with a URL of the electronic version, so that people who get a paper copy can 1) verify that the version they have is current, and 2) send the document to their colleagues. I've been nagging Foundation staff to do this too. I wish just sending electronic versions were enough in itself, but in my experience it's vastly more likely to be read if you target people and hand them a paper copy, and once they're enthusiastic they will recommend the link in their workplace or their professional networks.
There will be changes over time, but these will be relatively minor. It doesn't matter that there are small changes to the Commons home page or WP interface, so long as the instructions given by the booklet ("click on the button in the top right") are still valid. Thanks again for your work on this!
On 28 August 2013 21:34, Michael Peel michael.peel@manchester.ac.ukwrote:
(re-sending in case I'm still having problems with my mikepeel.netaddress - apologies if this comes through twice!)
On 28 Aug 2013, at 21:31, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
Hi Stevie,
Thanks for sharing the draft. It's better to upload large files like
this to the wiki and then link to them, rather than sending around large files by email, though. Here's some suggestions for improvement/corrections:
I think there's a font issue either with the PDF or your computer -
some of the t's are appearing very oddly, with a little loop going from the top of the t back over the previous letter. E.g. see the text on page 8 where the issue is particularly clear. Let me know if you can't reproduce this, and I'll send you a screenshot.
Page 2 - "media from Commons is used by", that should be "media from
Commons are used by" as 'media' is plural in this situation. (I've pointed this out on the file talk page for the original as it's a mistake in that version.)
Page 3 - you might want to tidy the indentation on the text there.
E.g. under 'What is allowed', the first bullet point should be at the same level as the next two, and under 'What is not allowed' the last line of the intro paragraph should be indented at the same level as the rest of the paragraph. Similarly, in the sidebar on page 10 could do with some tidying as the x's appear on the second line in some cases. These are probably due to differences in software versions or settings as they look OK in the original version.
Page 6 - there seems to be a closing bracket missing after the media
symbol in point (1) - as per the last, as it looks OK in the original version.
Page 7 - "for putting images in" makes me cringe. :-/ "for adding
images to a wiki page" would be much better.
Page 10 needs some clarifying, as it says "The Wikimedia Commons
default is the Creative Commons Attribution- ShareAlike licence (CC BY-SA), which says that ..." - technically, the description it gives after that is a human-readable summary rather than what the license says, so this needs a bit of rewording to something like 'which explains that' or 'which sets out that'. (Again, I've pointed this out on the file talk page for the original as it's a mistake in that version.)
The "Is it public domain?" section on page 11 could do with some
localisation, as right now it's all US-focused rather than relating to the UK. I'd suggest making it clear that the UK is life+70 years, and perhaps also mention the Open Government License?
The back page should probably have WMUK's details and contact
information included on it (potentially including the charity and company number), rather than just the WMUK logo and a general description. Also, there's some spelling mistakes: "colelct", "hiostoric". (I'm also fairly sure that 'Wikimedia Foundation' should always be preceded by 'the', but I've never figured out why Americans seem to consistently do this incorrectly...)
Hope this helps. :-)
BTW, do you have an expected lifetime for the booklet before it
needs refreshing? I guess things like the visual editor screenshots will age reasonably quickly, and things like the screenshots are already out of date (particularly those of the Commons homepage that quote the number of Commons files as 17,735,052 and 17,801,932, as it's already over 18.1 million now ;-) ).
Thanks, Mike
On 22 Aug 2013, at 14:34, Stevie Benton <
stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> Hello again everyone, > > I've managed to get the InDesign files and have been doing a little
work on the brochure. There's now a draft localised version for the UK. This is attached. I really like it but wonder what others think?
> > Andy, I take on board your suggestion about removing the grey
background in places but I actually think it adds quite a lot to the design so I've kept it.
> > With regards to freedom of panorama, as mentioned before I know
nothing about this so if anyone can take a look at the copy and suggest any appropriate changes I'll take care of it.
> > Hope you like the booklet! > > Stevie > > > On 14 August 2013 16:37, Martin Poulter infobomb@gmail.com wrote: > Why produce a paper brochure? Because of immediacy, e.g. in
training sessions it's more convenient for people to have something in front of them to step through rather than opening yet another browser tab. If we want to get our message through to staff in content projects and GLAMs, immediacy may well make the difference when they are being bombarded with recommended links or contacts. Good point about ink though.
> > > On 14 August 2013 15:53, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk
wrote:
> > On 7 August 2013 15:37, Daria Cybulska <
daria.cybulska@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> A new brochure about Wikimedia Commons has been produced. Designed
to be a companion brochure to the Welcome to Wikipedia brochure, it covers what Commons is, how to upload files, how to use files, and the basics of free licenses - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Illustrating_Wikipedia_brochure.pdf
> > We would like to have a version printed in the UK as well. What are
your thoughts on the content?
> > The grey background of some pages will burn up ink if people print
their own copies; white would be better.
> > There is a lack of continuity in referring to uploading "images"
vs. "media" - at one point, it says "You can also upload audio", but doesn't mention video
> > It is misleading on freedom of panorama. It says you can upload
pictures of "old" buildings, if they're "in the public domain". (It may be wise to mention the difference between FoP in the UK, and in countries where the law is less liberal on the matter.)
> > Environmentally speaking, why produce a paper brochure? Why not put
the material online, and hand out business (size) cards with a URL and QR code?
> > Otherwise, a good initiative. > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > > > > -- > Dr Martin L Poulter > Jisc Wikimedia Ambassador, July 2013 - March 2014 > Wikipedia contributor http://enwp.org/User:MartinPoulter > Volunteer, Wikimedia UK
http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:MartinPoulter
> Musician
http://soundcloud.com/martin-poulter
> http://myspace.com/comapilot > Person http://infobomb.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org > > > > > -- > Stevie Benton > Communications Organiser > Wikimedia UK > +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 > @StevieBenton > > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in
England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
> > <wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_12aug13 uk
reduced.pdf>_______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list > wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l > WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- Dr Martin L Poulter Jisc Wikimedia Ambassador, July 2013 - March 2014 Wikipedia contributor http://enwp.org/User:MartinPoulter Volunteer, Wikimedia UK http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:MartinPoulterhttp://uk.wikimedia.org/ Musician http://soundcloud.com/martin-poulter http://myspace.com/comapilot Person http://infobomb.org/
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Hi Stevie
On p 11 there is an unexpected line break after ..."and by the" in the first para of the Public Domain section.
If there is space, somehow, I would put the FoP text into a section on its own as it has nothing to do with public domain. I suggest the following, to cover UK law:
Freedom of panorama Freedom of panorama is a special copyright law exception which, in the UK, gives photographers the freedom to take photographs of any building, or any three-dimensional work (eg a sculpture, jewellery, work of art), that is on permanent public display, without infringing any copyright that might be held by the architect or artist. This allows all modern buildings and some 3D copyright-protected works to be freely photographed, without having to worry about copyright issues. Public display means somewhere normally open to the public, and this includes interior as well as exterior spaces. The freedom does not extend to most types of 2D work including posters, signboards or displays, even if displayed in public. It also does not include 3D artworks that are displayed as part of a temporary exhibition. Note that these exceptions are UK specific and that other countries' rules may be significantly different.
In the sidebar on the last page, there is still a reference to 'xxxxxxxxx' Michael
On 13 Sep 2013, at 13:28, Stevie Benton wrote:
Yes, that's the latest version. I'm happy to accept any changes to the freedom of panorama as it's not something in which I am an expert.
Thanks,
Stevie
On 13 September 2013 13:22, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote: Is the latest version still at
https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf ?
If so, the FoP text on page 3 could still do with some improvement.
Michael
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comments. The xxxxxxx is the space for the URL - once I know what that will be I'll add it in.
I will try and squeeze that text in although I'm not sure there is space. Is there a URL we can point people to for fuller details of FoP? It's all a bit daunting and intimidating for newbies I think.
Thanks,
Stevie
On 13 September 2013 14:27, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Hi Stevie
On p 11 there is an unexpected line break after ..."and by the" in the first para of the Public Domain section.
If there is space, somehow, I would put the FoP text into a section on its own as it has nothing to do with public domain. I suggest the following, to cover UK law:
*Freedom of panorama*
Freedom of panorama is a special copyright law exception which, in the UK, gives photographers the freedom to take photographs of any building, or any three-dimensional work (eg a sculpture, jewellery, work of art), that is on permanent public display, without infringing any copyright that might be held by the architect or artist. This allows all modern buildings and some 3D copyright-protected works to be freely photographed, without having to worry about copyright issues. Public display means somewhere normally open to the public, and this includes interior as well as exterior spaces. The freedom does not extend to most types of 2D work including posters, signboards or displays, even if displayed in public. It also does not include 3D artworks that are displayed as part of a temporary exhibition. Note that these exceptions are UK specific and that other countries' rules may be significantly different.
In the sidebar on the last page, there is still a reference to 'xxxxxxxxx'
Michael
On 13 Sep 2013, at 13:28, Stevie Benton wrote:
Yes, that's the latest version. I'm happy to accept any changes to the freedom of panorama as it's not something in which I am an expert.
Thanks,
Stevie
On 13 September 2013 13:22, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Is the latest version still at
https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf ?
If so, the FoP text on page 3 could still do with some improvement.
Michael
Both the English Wikipedia and Commons have a page on FoP, but they're not necessarily beginners friendly.
* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Freedom_of_panorama * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
On 13 September 2013 14:35, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comments. The xxxxxxx is the space for the URL - once I know what that will be I'll add it in.
I will try and squeeze that text in although I'm not sure there is space. Is there a URL we can point people to for fuller details of FoP? It's all a bit daunting and intimidating for newbies I think.
Thanks,
Stevie
On 13 September 2013 14:27, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Hi Stevie
On p 11 there is an unexpected line break after ..."and by the" in the first para of the Public Domain section.
If there is space, somehow, I would put the FoP text into a section on its own as it has nothing to do with public domain. I suggest the following, to cover UK law:
*Freedom of panorama*
Freedom of panorama is a special copyright law exception which, in the UK, gives photographers the freedom to take photographs of any building, or any three-dimensional work (eg a sculpture, jewellery, work of art), that is on permanent public display, without infringing any copyright that might be held by the architect or artist. This allows all modern buildings and some 3D copyright-protected works to be freely photographed, without having to worry about copyright issues. Public display means somewhere normally open to the public, and this includes interior as well as exterior spaces. The freedom does not extend to most types of 2D work including posters, signboards or displays, even if displayed in public. It also does not include 3D artworks that are displayed as part of a temporary exhibition. Note that these exceptions are UK specific and that other countries' rules may be significantly different.
In the sidebar on the last page, there is still a reference to 'xxxxxxxxx'
Michael
On 13 Sep 2013, at 13:28, Stevie Benton wrote:
Yes, that's the latest version. I'm happy to accept any changes to the freedom of panorama as it's not something in which I am an expert.
Thanks,
Stevie
On 13 September 2013 13:22, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Is the latest version still at
https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf ?
If so, the FoP text on page 3 could still do with some improvement.
Michael
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
A link might be good but as Katie says that will probably not help beginners. If at all possible I'd like to squeeze this in, as in prtactice the issues briefly coverd there are of considerable imporetance to Commons, and admins spend a lot of time having to delete non-free contect that comes within that field.
I'm happy to try and shorten if we can. Also, can the 'have fun!' sign off be smaller?
This version maybe saves a line without losing content:
Freedom of panorama ('FoP') in the UK FoP is a copyright law exception which gives photographers the freedom to take a photo of any building, or any 3D artistic work (eg sculpture, jewellery, artwork) that is on permanent public display, without infringing any copyright held by the architect or artist. 'Public display' means in a place normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums. FoP does not extend to 3D works that are part of a temporary exhibition, nor to most 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on display in public. FoP in the UK allows all modern buildings and some 3D artistic works to be freely photographed, without copyright concerns, but note that other countries' rules may differ.
Michael
On 13 Sep 2013, at 15:08, Katie Chan wrote:
Both the English Wikipedia and Commons have a page on FoP, but they're not necessarily beginners friendly.
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Freedom_of_panorama
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
On 13 September 2013 14:35, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comments. The xxxxxxx is the space for the URL - once I know what that will be I'll add it in.
I will try and squeeze that text in although I'm not sure there is space. Is there a URL we can point people to for fuller details of FoP? It's all a bit daunting and intimidating for newbies I think.
Thanks,
Stevie
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind... Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
________________________________ From: Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name To: UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org; Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013, 15:40 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 'Illustrating Wikipedia brochure' - your thoughts?
A link might be good but as Katie says that will probably not help beginners. If at all possible I'd like to squeeze this in, as in prtactice the issues briefly coverd there are of considerable imporetance to Commons, and admins spend a lot of time having to delete non-free contect that comes within that field.
I'm happy to try and shorten if we can. Also, can the 'have fun!' sign off be smaller?
This version maybe saves a line without losing content:
Freedom of panorama ('FoP') in the UK
FoP is a copyright law exception which gives photographers the freedom to take a photo of any building, or any 3D artistic work (eg sculpture, jewellery, artwork) that is on permanent public display, without infringing any copyright held by the architect or artist. 'Public display' means in a place normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums. FoP does not extend to 3D works that are part of a temporary exhibition, nor to most 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on display in public. FoP in the UK allows all modern buildings and some 3D artistic works to be freely photographed, without copyright concerns, but note that other countries' rules may differ.
Michael
On 13 Sep 2013, at 15:08, Katie Chan wrote:
Both the English Wikipedia and Commons have a page on FoP, but they're not necessarily beginners friendly.
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Freedom_of_panorama
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
On 13 September 2013 14:35, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comments. The xxxxxxx is the space for the URL - once I know what that will be I'll add it in.
I will try and squeeze that text in although I'm not sure there is space. Is there a URL we can point people to for fuller details of FoP? It's all a bit daunting and intimidating for newbies I think.
Thanks,
Stevie
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
From: Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name To: UK Wikimedia mailing list wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org; Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013, 15:40 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 'Illustrating Wikipedia brochure' - your thoughts?
A link might be good but as Katie says that will probably not help beginners. If at all possible I'd like to squeeze this in, as in prtactice the issues briefly coverd there are of considerable imporetance to Commons, and admins spend a lot of time having to delete non-free contect that comes within that field.
I'm happy to try and shorten if we can. Also, can the 'have fun!' sign off be smaller?
This version maybe saves a line without losing content:
Freedom of panorama ('FoP') in the UK FoP is a copyright law exception which gives photographers the freedom to take a photo of any building, or any 3D artistic work (eg sculpture, jewellery, artwork) that is on permanent public display, without infringing any copyright held by the architect or artist. 'Public display' means in a place normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums. FoP does not extend to 3D works that are part of a temporary exhibition, nor to most 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on display in public. FoP in the UK allows all modern buildings and some 3D artistic works to be freely photographed, without copyright concerns, but note that other countries' rules may differ.
Michael
On 13 Sep 2013, at 15:08, Katie Chan wrote:
Both the English Wikipedia and Commons have a page on FoP, but they're not necessarily beginners friendly.
- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Freedom_of_panorama
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_panorama
On 13 September 2013 14:35, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comments. The xxxxxxx is the space for the URL - once I know what that will be I'll add it in.
I will try and squeeze that text in although I'm not sure there is space. Is there a URL we can point people to for fuller details of FoP? It's all a bit daunting and intimidating for newbies I think.
Thanks,
Stevie
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Proposed new simpler version:
Freedom of panorama in the UK
Under UK law, you are allowed to upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public place (this means somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North sculpture, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK may be different.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:57, Michael Maggs wrote:
Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Hello everyone,
Latest iteration of the document is at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf
I still need to add in the location URL on the back page and give the document a final proofread. Other than those two things I'm pretty happy. I've updated the freedom of panorama information (although please note the size limitations on that page). If there are no further (important) changes then I plan to get a version over to the printer next week.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 15 September 2013 17:13, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Proposed new simpler version:
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law, you are allowed to upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is *permanently* located in a public place (this means somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North sculpture, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK may be different.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:57, Michael Maggs wrote:
Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Stevie, Michael, etc
I think this could be more concise in a few places (see my suggested changes below in black). In the final caveat, I think that "are often" better represents the reality than "may be".
best wishes Edward Hands
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law, you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is _permanently_ located in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are often different.
Hello everyone,
Latest iteration of the document is at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf
I still need to add in the location URL on the back page and give the document a final proofread. Other than those two things I'm pretty happy. I've updated the freedom of panorama information (although please note the size limitations on that page). If there are no further (important) changes then I plan to get a version over to the printer next week.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 15 September 2013 17:13, Michael Maggs <Michael@maggs.name mailto:Michael@maggs.name> wrote:
Proposed new simpler version: * * *Freedom of panorama in the UK* Under UK law, you are allowed to upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is _permanently_ located in a public place (this means somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North sculpture, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK may be different. MichaelOn 14 Sep 2013, at 16:57, Michael Maggs wrote:Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into. Michael On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell@ymail.com <mailto:hjmitchell@ymail.com>> wrote:Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind... Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell_______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org-- Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Thank you Edward, that's very helpful. I have made those changes and uploaded the new version which now also includes a URL (thanks to Martin for setting that up).
On 16 September 2013 16:56, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Stevie, Michael, etc
I think this could be more concise in a few places (see my suggested changes below in black). In the final caveat, I think that "are often" better represents the reality than "may be".
best wishes Edward Hands
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law, you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is *permanently* located in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are oftendifferent.
Hello everyone,
Latest iteration of the document is at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf
I still need to add in the location URL on the back page and give the document a final proofread. Other than those two things I'm pretty happy. I've updated the freedom of panorama information (although please note the size limitations on that page). If there are no further (important) changes then I plan to get a version over to the printer next week.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 15 September 2013 17:13, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Proposed new simpler version:
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law, you are allowed to upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is *permanently* located in a public place (this means s omewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North sculpture, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK may be different.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:57, Michael Maggs wrote:Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediauk-l@wikimedia.orghttp://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Edward's suggestions seem sensible to me, though I'd be happy with either version.
I might also be inclined to remove "by the architect", especially if we're using a sculpture as an example. Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
________________________________ From: Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, 16 September 2013, 16:56 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 'Illustrating Wikipedia brochure' - your thoughts?
Stevie, Michael, etc
I think this could be more concise in a few places (see my suggested changes below in black). In the final caveat, I think that "are often" better represents the reality than "may be".
best wishes Edward Hands
Freedom of panorama in the UK Under UK law, you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are often different.
Hello everyone,
Latest iteration of the document is at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf
I still need to add in the location URL on the back page and give the document a final proofread. Other than those two things I'm pretty happy. I've updated the freedom of panorama information (although please note the size limitations on that page). If there are no further (important) changes then I plan to get a version over to the printer next week.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 15 September 2013 17:13, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Proposed new simpler version:
Freedom of panorama in the UK
Under UK law, you are allowed to upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public place (this means somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North sculpture, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK may be different.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:57, Michael Maggs wrote:
Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Harry Mitchell
Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Edward's copyediting is a great improvement, and a nice illustration of how, >95% of the time people say they want more space to write in, what they actually want is fewer words. Thanks to all who contributed to this and especially Stevie, of course: I'm sure it will be very useful.
On 16 September 2013 17:33, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Edward's suggestions seem sensible to me, though I'd be happy with either version.
I might also be inclined to remove "by the architect", especially if we're using a sculpture as an example.
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
*From:* Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com *To:* wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Monday, 16 September 2013, 16:56
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 'Illustrating Wikipedia brochure' - your thoughts?
Stevie, Michael, etc
I think this could be more concise in a few places (see my suggested changes below in black). In the final caveat, I think that "are often" better represents the reality than "may be".
best wishes Edward Hands
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law, you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is *permanently* located in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are oftendifferent.
Hello everyone,
Latest iteration of the document is at https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wp_Commons_SHIP_12pp_September_UK.pdf
I still need to add in the location URL on the back page and give the document a final proofread. Other than those two things I'm pretty happy. I've updated the freedom of panorama information (although please note the size limitations on that page). If there are no further (important) changes then I plan to get a version over to the printer next week.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 15 September 2013 17:13, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Proposed new simpler version:
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law, you are allowed to upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright held by the architect. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is *permanently* located in a public place (this means s omewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North sculpture, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this applies only to 3D works, and not to 2D works such as posters or signs - even if on they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK may be different.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:57, Michael Maggs wrote:Ok Harry, I will have a go at tweaking the text to put the buildings info first. It would be easier to be more straightforward if we had more space to fit this into.
Michael
On 14 Sep 2013, at 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Pardon me, Michael, but I think that might be a bit too jargony. If I was a complete novice on copyright, I'd have to read that several times to work out that I could upload a photo of any building in the UK without infringing a third party's copyright. The important part is that if it's 3D and permanently lives in a public place (like a building or a statue), it's fair game. An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediauk-l@wikimedia.orghttp://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit also makes sense, especially as I imagine architects may not be the only copyright holders, even for buildings.
Tweaking the text of this brochure is a great example of the power of collaborative editing.
If you're not familiar with them, Tony1 has devised some great exercises in redundancy. I have found them quite instructive in the past, and they could be a useful training tool. As he states, "Redundancy, rather than poor grammar and spelling, is the biggest source of problems in prose." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony1/Redundancy_exercises:_removing_fluf...
best wishes Edward Hands Edwardx on WP etc
Edward's copyediting is a great improvement, and a nice illustration of how, >95% of the time people say they want more space to write in, what they actually want is fewer words. Thanks to all who contributed to this and especially Stevie, of course: I'm sure it will be very useful.
On 16 September 2013 17:33, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell@ymail.com mailto:hjmitchell@ymail.com> wrote:
Edward's suggestions seem sensible to me, though I'd be happy with either version. I might also be inclined to remove "by the architect", especially if we're using a sculpture as an example. Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit also makes sense, especially as I imagine architects may not be the only copyright holders, even for buildings.
Tweaking the text of this brochure is a great example of the power of collaborative editing.
If you're not familiar with them, Tony1 has devised some great exercises in redundancy. I have found them quite instructive in the past, and they could be a useful training tool. As he states, "Redundancy, rather than poor grammar and spelling, is the biggest source of problems in prose."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony1/Redundancy_exercises:_removing_fluf...
best wishes Edward Hands Edwardx on WP etc
Edward's copyediting is a great improvement, and a nice illustration of how, >95% of the time people say they want more space to write in, what they actually want is fewer words. Thanks to all who contributed to this and especially Stevie, of course: I'm sure it will be very useful.
On 16 September 2013 17:33, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Edward's suggestions seem sensible to me, though I'd be happy with either version.
I might also be inclined to remove "by the architect", especially if we're using a sculpture as an example.
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition. * * UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Press Enter to send your message.
On 17 September 2013 11:43, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit also makes sense, especially as I imagine architects may not be the only copyright holders, even for buildings.
Tweaking the text of this brochure is a great example of the power of collaborative editing.
If you're not familiar with them, Tony1 has devised some great exercises in redundancy. I have found them quite instructive in the past, and they could be a useful training tool. As he states, "Redundancy, rather than poor grammar and spelling, is the biggest source of problems in prose."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony1/Redundancy_exercises:_removing_fluf...
best wishes Edward Hands Edwardx on WP etc
Edward's copyediting is a great improvement, and a nice illustration of how, >95% of the time people say they want more space to write in, what they actually want is fewer words. Thanks to all who contributed to this and especially Stevie, of course: I'm sure it will be very useful.
On 16 September 2013 17:33, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Edward's suggestions seem sensible to me, though I'd be happy with either version.
I might also be inclined to remove "by the architect", especially if we're using a sculpture as an example.
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Press Enter to send your message.
On 17 September 2013 11:43, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit also makes sense, especially as I imagine architects may not be the only copyright holders, even for buildings.
Tweaking the text of this brochure is a great example of the power of collaborative editing.
If you're not familiar with them, Tony1 has devised some great exercises in redundancy. I have found them quite instructive in the past, and they could be a useful training tool. As he states, "Redundancy, rather than poor grammar and spelling, is the biggest source of problems in prose."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tony1/Redundancy_exercises:_removing_fluf...
best wishes Edward Hands Edwardx on WP etc
Edward's copyediting is a great improvement, and a nice illustration of how, >95% of the time people say they want more space to write in, what they actually want is fewer words. Thanks to all who contributed to this and especially Stevie, of course: I'm sure it will be very useful.
On 16 September 2013 17:33, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
Edward's suggestions seem sensible to me, though I'd be happy with either version.
I might also be inclined to remove "by the architect", especially if we're using a sculpture as an example.
Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
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One trivial note (not affecting the actual text) - remember 3D and 2D will be a lot more easily understood than 3d and 2d, which parse as "third, second".
Looking at the document ... is there a reason the numbers aren't flush with the lines they refer to? It seems a little odd to have.
1. Do step 1.
2. Do the next step
rather than
1. Do step 1.
2. Do the next step.
Other small issues:
* There are some weird linebreaks on p11. * We switch between "Non-commercial" (p12) and "Non-Commercial" (p10) * Can we add links under the three CC licenses listed on p10? They're relatively human-readable - eg creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
Andrew.
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy < jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
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On 17 September 2013 11:43, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
No, definitely not an improvement - sorry!
This version goes far beyond a copyedit and introduces substantive and incorrect changes on points of law. First, it mixes up buildings (which do not have to be public) and and sculptures (which do). Second, the text appears to be based on an incorrect understanding that the underlying legal distinction is between 2D and 3D, which it is results in a completely wrong explanation of why stained glass is OK (actually, it is because stained glass falls under a peculiar category of UK copyright called 'works of artistic craftsmanship’, a category which also would also include 3D designer jewellery).
Please can we revert back to my last draft, and if needed edit for readability only?
Michael
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote: Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Thanks all,
Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990 rdxx@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Thanks Michael for your comments. Here's the version I currently have:
"Freedom of panorama in the UK - Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public space (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). You can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this only applies to 3D works and not 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are often different."
We've gone backwards and forwards on this quite a lot, so, executive decision - Michael, can you take a look, recommend any changes and we'll go with your final, recommended version.
Thank you everyone,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 17:07, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
No, definitely not an improvement - sorry!
This version goes far beyond a copyedit and introduces substantive and incorrect changes on points of law. First, it mixes up buildings (which do *not* have to be public) and and sculptures (which do). Second, the text appears to be based on an incorrect understanding that the underlying legal distinction is between 2D and 3D, which it is results in a completely wrong explanation of why stained glass is OK (actually, it is because stained glass falls under a peculiar category of UK copyright called 'works of artistic craftsmanship’, a category which also would also include 3D designer jewellery).
Please can we revert back to my last draft, and if needed edit for readability only?
Michael
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy < jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990 rdxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
If you have enough space I would go with this. If you need to shorten it, skip the bit about the stained glass.
Freedom of panorama in the UK
Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or out) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that the artwork is in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums), and is permanently on view there. So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. The rule applies to stained glass on permanent public view, but not to other 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are permanently sited in a public place. Note that the rules outside the UK are often much more restrictive.”
Michael
On 17 Sep 2013, at 17:12, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Michael for your comments. Here's the version I currently have:
"Freedom of panorama in the UK - Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public space (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). You can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this only applies to 3D works and not 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are often different."
We've gone backwards and forwards on this quite a lot, so, executive decision - Michael, can you take a look, recommend any changes and we'll go with your final, recommended version.
Thank you everyone,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 17:07, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote: No, definitely not an improvement - sorry!
This version goes far beyond a copyedit and introduces substantive and incorrect changes on points of law. First, it mixes up buildings (which do not have to be public) and and sculptures (which do). Second, the text appears to be based on an incorrect understanding that the underlying legal distinction is between 2D and 3D, which it is results in a completely wrong explanation of why stained glass is OK (actually, it is because stained glass falls under a peculiar category of UK copyright called 'works of artistic craftsmanship’, a category which also would also include 3D designer jewellery).
Please can we revert back to my last draft, and if needed edit for readability only?
Michael
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote: Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Thanks all,
Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990 rdxx@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Perhaps change "rules... are" to "law... is" on the final sentence?
Yes, agreed.
Michael
On 17 Sep 2013, at 23:01, Andy Mabbett pigsotwing@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps change "rules... are" to "law... is" on the final sentence?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
On Sep 17, 2013 5:55 PM, "Michael Maggs" Michael@maggs.name wrote:
If you have enough space I would go with this. If you need to shorten it, skip the bit about the stained glass.
Freedom of panorama in the UK
Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or out) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that the artwork is in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums), and is permanently on view there. So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. The rule applies to stained glass on permanent public view, but not to other 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are permanently sited in a public place. Note that the rules outside the UK are often much more restrictive.”
Michael
On 17 Sep 2013, at 17:12, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Michael for your comments. Here's the version I currently have:
"Freedom of panorama in the UK - Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public space (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). You can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this only applies to 3D works and not 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are often different."
We've gone backwards and forwards on this quite a lot, so, executive decision - Michael, can you take a look, recommend any changes and we'll go with your final, recommended version.
Thank you everyone,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 17:07, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
No, definitely not an improvement - sorry!
This version goes far beyond a copyedit and introduces substantive and incorrect changes on points of law. First, it mixes up buildings (which do not have to be public) and and sculptures (which do). Second, the text appears to be based on an incorrect understanding that the underlying legal distinction is between 2D and 3D, which it is results in a completely wrong explanation of why stained glass is OK (actually, it is because stained glass falls under a peculiar category of UK copyright called 'works of artistic craftsmanship’, a category which also would also include 3D designer jewellery).
Please can we revert back to my last draft, and if needed edit for readability only?
Michael
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Thanks all,
Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990 rdxx@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
-- Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Thanks Michael and Andy. I've made those changes now. A new version will be uploaded shortly.
Stevie
On 18 September 2013 03:54, Michael Maggs michaelnmaggs@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, agreed.
Michael
On 17 Sep 2013, at 23:01, Andy Mabbett pigsotwing@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps change "rules... are" to "law... is" on the final sentence?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk On Sep 17, 2013 5:55 PM, "Michael Maggs" Michael@maggs.name wrote:
If you have enough space I would go with this. If you need to shorten it, skip the bit about the stained glass.
*Freedom of panorama in the UK*
Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or out) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that the artwork is in a public place (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums), and is *permanently* on view there. So, you can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. The rule applies to stained glass on permanent public view, but not to other 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are permanently sited in a public place. Note that the rules outside the UK are often much more restrictive.”
Michael
On 17 Sep 2013, at 17:12, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Michael for your comments. Here's the version I currently have:
"Freedom of panorama in the UK - Under UK law you can upload a photo of the architecture of any building (inside or outside) without infringing any copyright. The same applies to any 3D artwork, such as a statue, provided that it is permanently located in a public space (somewhere normally open to the public, including interior spaces such as museums). You can freely upload a photo of the Angel of the North, even though the sculpture itself is copyright-protected. Note that this only applies to 3D works and not 2D works such as posters or signs - even if they are on public display. Note also that the rules outside the UK are often different."
We've gone backwards and forwards on this quite a lot, so, executive decision - Michael, can you take a look, recommend any changes and we'll go with your final, recommended version.
Thank you everyone,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 17:07, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
No, definitely not an improvement - sorry!
This version goes far beyond a copyedit and introduces substantive and incorrect changes on points of law. First, it mixes up buildings (which do *not* have to be public) and and sculptures (which do). Second, the text appears to be based on an incorrect understanding that the underlying legal distinction is between 2D and 3D, which it is results in a completely wrong explanation of why stained glass is OK (actually, it is because stained glass falls under a peculiar category of UK copyright called 'works of artistic craftsmanship’, a category which also would also include 3D designer jewellery).
Please can we revert back to my last draft, and if needed edit for readability only?
Michael
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy < jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990 rdxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
--
Stevie Benton Communications Organiser Wikimedia UK+44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
One trivial note (not affecting the actual text) - remember 3D and 2D will be a lot more easily understood than 3d and 2d, which parse as "third, second".
Looking at the document ... is there a reason the numbers aren't flush with the lines they refer to? It seems a little odd to have.
1. Do step 1.
2. Do the next step
rather than
1. Do step 1.
2. Do the next step.
Other small issues:
* There are some weird linebreaks on p11. * We switch between "Non-commercial" (p12) and "Non-Commercial" (p10) * Can we add links under the three CC licenses listed on p10? They're relatively human-readable - eg creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
Andrew.
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy < jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
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On 17 September 2013 11:43, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
One trivial note (not affecting the actual text) - remember 3D and 2D will be a lot more easily understood than 3d and 2d, which parse as "third, second".
Looking at the document ... is there a reason the numbers aren't flush with the lines they refer to? It seems a little odd to have.
1. Do step 1.
2. Do the next step
rather than
1. Do step 1.
2. Do the next step.
Other small issues:
* There are some weird linebreaks on p11. * We switch between "Non-commercial" (p12) and "Non-Commercial" (p10) * Can we add links under the three CC licenses listed on p10? They're relatively human-readable - eg creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
Andrew.
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy < jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Press Enter to send your message.
On 17 September 2013 11:43, Stevie Benton stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
HI Andrew,
Thanks for all of those comments. Again, many of these things are hangovers from the previous version of the booklet. The numbering for example - I've changed it but think that was an intentional stylistic choice. The links to the licences are posing a problem, however. The icons aren't in the booklet as images and so I am having real trouble moving them to sit in line with where the text ends up (my InDesign training on Thursday can't come soon enough...). I shall add a link to the Creative Commons website below the final licence.
I hope this all makes sense, thanks again for all help,
Stevie
PS - I suspect it is too late now but if anyone has any more changes, please do note the page numbers as Andrew has done here. It makes my life so much easier...
On 17 September 2013 14:31, Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk wrote:
One trivial note (not affecting the actual text) - remember 3D and 2D will be a lot more easily understood than 3d and 2d, which parse as "third, second".
Looking at the document ... is there a reason the numbers aren't flush with the lines they refer to? It seems a little odd to have.
Do step 1.
Do the next step
rather than
Do step 1.
Do the next step.
Other small issues:
- There are some weird linebreaks on p11.
- We switch between "Non-commercial" (p12) and "Non-Commercial" (p10)
- Can we add links under the three CC licenses listed on p10? They're
relatively human-readable - eg creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
Andrew.
On Tuesday, 17 September 2013, Stevie Benton wrote:
Thanks Jonathan. Before I go through the awkward job of tinkering with the InDesign file, what do other people think about the revision?
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 12:47, Jonathan Cardy < jonathan.cardy@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
Thanks all,
*Possible revised wording with examples from the borderline and less repetition.
UK Freedom of panorama*
Under UK law, you can photograph, upload and share with the world a photo of any 3d artifact such as a building or sculpture that is permanently publicly displayed in the UK, even if the object is still under copyright. But you need to check four things: 1 Is it permanently on display? Temporary exhibits such as on the fourth plinth in Trafalgar square are not included, but the Angel of the North is. 2 When you took the photograph were you somewhere normally open to the public? Inside a pub or museum is fine, where you work or were a guest probably isn't. 3 Was it 3d not 2d? Buildings and sculpture are 3d, graffiti, paintings and signs are 2d. So a photograph of stained glass illuminated by light shining through it is 3d, but the same stained glass window reflecting your flash at night is 2d and might still be under copyright. 4 Did you take the photo in the UK? Most other countries have stricter rules.
Regards
Jonathan Cardy GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives & Museums) Organiser/ Trefnydd GLAM (Galeriau, Llyfrgelloedd, Archifdai a llawer Mwy!) Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0990
Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.
Press Enter to send your message.
On 17 September 2013 11:43, Stevie Benton <stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
Thanks again everyone for all of your input. As there is still some correspondence going around the booklet I'm going to leave it open for comments until 12pm tomorrow. At that point, I plan to close the discussion and prepare a final proof before sending to the printers and uploading to Commons.
Thank you,
Stevie
On 17 September 2013 10:40, Edward Hands edwardxx@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Martin for your kind words. Harry's edit a
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 14 September 2013 16:29, HJ Mitchell hjmitchell@ymail.com wrote:
An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices; Nelson's Column comes to mind...
Nelson's Column would be out of copyright anyway. Perhaps a more contemporary example, such as the Angel of the North?
The Angel of the North is an excellent example of visible, well-photographed, modern public art. Plus it's a good excuse to include a picture of it :-)
A.
On Saturday, 14 September 2013, Andy Mabbett wrote:
On 14 September 2013 16:29, HJ Mitchell <hjmitchell@ymail.comjavascript:;> wrote:
An example might be useful in illustrating the point for novices;
Nelson's
Column comes to mind...
Nelson's Column would be out of copyright anyway. Perhaps a more contemporary example, such as the Angel of the North?
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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