I am recently engaged in a conversation with [[User:Kimberlyblaker]], who uploaded a fair amount of old, 19th century pictures onto Commons, including the album of places in Cambridge (see below) which is of particular interest to me.
What stumbled me was the copyright status of these images - are they in the public domain? If they aren't, is it due to publication right, and is Kimberly Blaker (& co.) the rightful copyright holder of them?
Deryck
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: New Boston Fine and Rare Books books4u29@hotmail.com Date: 8 February 2012 17:06 Subject: Re: Unidentified locations To: Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk
Dear Deryck, Thanks again, for the additional identification and for inviting assistance through twitter.
As to the copyright, I truly appreciate your help with this. Here is what I can tell you, so that you can better assess the copyright. I have an original 19th century album with original 19th albumen prints of these images. The album does not appear to have ever been published. There is no title (except for a paper label that errantly labeled it as “Oxford”. There is no title page, copyright page, author, publisher, photographer, anything whatsoever inside. The only identification is a late 20th century bookplate on which it was handwritten “Oxford University, pictures taken for William Winfield, circa middle 19th century, given to Robert Winfield early 1970s. This album formerly owned by William Winfield.” Obviously the “Oxford” note is incorrect. I assume the other details are probably correct. It is probably a family heirloom that had been handed down.
I have searched extensively, and cannot locate any of these identical images online. So I have to assume they may have never been reproduced and was likely a collection an early photographer did for himself or as a gift for a friend.
With this in mind, aside from the photographs being compiled in a photo album, it seems that it would still fall under a previously unpublished work. I own the original work, have photographed the work, and have now published the work online via my own website. So I think, I am now the official copyright holder? I’m not an expert in copyright law but have some general understanding of it. You are probably better versed in this?
Sincerely,
Kimberly Blaker, President New Boston Fine and Rare Books http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/ 520-395-1363
Like us on Facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Boston-Fine-and-Rare-Books/121288917973623?sk=app_174236709278965and find a *valuable coupon* offer on our Welcome tab!
We're also on Twitter https://twitter.com/#%21/NewBostonBooks, LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=160234854&trk=tab_pro, MySpace http://www.myspace.com/578101465, and Tumblrhttp://www.tumblr.com/blog/newbostonfineandrarebooks .
Enter our FREE drawinghttp://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/?page=shop/disp&pid=page_WebHeaderVote&CLSN_1291=13273272391291744a09973e38c9db6bfor a chance to *win a new leather bound Easton Press book*.
Take 19th century photographic tourhttp://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/?page=shop/disp&pid=page_Cambridge1&CLSN_1291=132698937012912a313e3d14cf968d0eof Cambridge University.
And be sure to subscribehttp://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/?page=shop/disp&pid=page_Newsletter&CLSN_1291=13273272391291744a09973e38c9db6bto our *newsletter *for future updates.
*From:* Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk *Sent:* Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:11 AM *To:* New Boston Fine and Rare Books books4u29@hotmail.com *Subject:* Re: Unidentified locations
Dear Ms Blaker,
Also identified: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pepys_Library_c1870.jpg This one is Pepys Library in Magdalene College. I've also posted links to the Wikimedia Commons pictures from Twitter asking others in Cambridge University to help identify the remaining unidentified locations.
As for the copyright notice, I think I previously made the mistake of thinking the photos came from a collection *published* in the 1870s, which would be automatically out of copyright. However, I have now realised that the pictures are actually from a previously unpublished private collection, which means as copy-holder and publisher your company should enjoy 25 years of publication right... wait it's a previously unpublished British work uncovered in the United States... argh! ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Hirtle_chart)
Deryck
On 8 February 2012 14:42, New Boston Fine and Rare Books < books4u29@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Deryck,
Thank you for identifying these images! I’ve added this information to my website.
If only I could determine the original photographer. Many of the originals are contact prints, but they had been trimmed, so identifying information is missing. Though when scanned and enlarged, I could see hand etched in the plate of the Master’s Garden was “J. Murray”, I believe. Though it’s hard to say if that’s the actual photographer as there was other random etching in the plate as well. If you have any idea where I might discover the photographer, possibly through Cambridge’s collections, etc., please let me know.
Best,
Kimberly Blaker, President New Boston Fine and Rare Books http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/ 520-395-1363
Like us on Facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Boston-Fine-and-Rare-Books/121288917973623?sk=app_174236709278965and find a *valuable coupon* offer on our Welcome tab!
We're also on Twitter https://twitter.com/#%21/NewBostonBooks, LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=160234854&trk=tab_pro, MySpace http://www.myspace.com/578101465, and Tumblrhttp://www.tumblr.com/blog/newbostonfineandrarebooks .
Enter our FREE drawinghttp://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/?page=shop/disp&pid=page_WebHeaderVote&CLSN_1291=13273272391291744a09973e38c9db6bfor a chance to *win a new leather bound Easton Press book*.
Take 19th century photographic tourhttp://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/?page=shop/disp&pid=page_Cambridge1&CLSN_1291=132698937012912a313e3d14cf968d0eof Cambridge University.
And be sure to subscribehttp://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/?page=shop/disp&pid=page_Newsletter&CLSN_1291=13273272391291744a09973e38c9db6bto our *newsletter *for future updates.
*From:* deryckchan@wikimedia.hk *Sent:* Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:47 AM *To:* info@NewBostonFineandRareBooks.com *Subject:* Unidentified locations
Hello,
I am a current undergraduate of Cambridge University, and came here after seeing the uploads your team has made onto Wikimedia Commons.
I'm writing to inform you the locations of the two unidentified pictures:
http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/home//Cambridge University/57 cambridge university.jpg Gatehouse of St. John's College, Cambridge
http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/home//Cambridge University/58 cambridge university.jpg Chapel of Magdalene College, Cambridge
I also noticed that the author's copyright of the pictures have expired, and will .update the copyright licences of the pictures accordingly.
Regards, Deryck Chan
http://www.dacs.org.uk/pdfs/factsheet_14.pdf
According to that fact sheet, since the photos were taken before 1 June 1957, the copyright expired 50 years after the photos were taken. If the author (most likely the photographer, although not necessarily) was still alive in 1925, the copyright might have revived in 1995 and will last until life+70, but unless the author survived for 72 years after taking the photo that will have expired too.
It is possible there is a publication right to 25 years of copyright, I haven't been able to find anything definite. This FAQ explains the rules for unpublished works, but explicitly excludes photographs:
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-duration/c-duration-faq/c-duration-faq-un...
On 9 February 2012 17:49, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
I am recently engaged in a conversation with [[User:Kimberlyblaker]], who uploaded a fair amount of old, 19th century pictures onto Commons, including the album of places in Cambridge (see below) which is of particular interest to me.
What stumbled me was the copyright status of these images - are they in the public domain? If they aren't, is it due to publication right, and is Kimberly Blaker (& co.) the rightful copyright holder of them?
Deryck
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: New Boston Fine and Rare Books books4u29@hotmail.com Date: 8 February 2012 17:06 Subject: Re: Unidentified locations To: Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk
Dear Deryck, Thanks again, for the additional identification and for inviting assistance through twitter.
As to the copyright, I truly appreciate your help with this. Here is what I can tell you, so that you can better assess the copyright. I have an original 19th century album with original 19th albumen prints of these images. The album does not appear to have ever been published. There is no title (except for a paper label that errantly labeled it as “Oxford”. There is no title page, copyright page, author, publisher, photographer, anything whatsoever inside. The only identification is a late 20th century bookplate on which it was handwritten “Oxford University, pictures taken for William Winfield, circa middle 19th century, given to Robert Winfield early 1970s. This album formerly owned by William Winfield.” Obviously the “Oxford” note is incorrect. I assume the other details are probably correct. It is probably a family heirloom that had been handed down.
I have searched extensively, and cannot locate any of these identical images online. So I have to assume they may have never been reproduced and was likely a collection an early photographer did for himself or as a gift for a friend.
With this in mind, aside from the photographs being compiled in a photo album, it seems that it would still fall under a previously unpublished work. I own the original work, have photographed the work, and have now published the work online via my own website. So I think, I am now the official copyright holder? I’m not an expert in copyright law but have some general understanding of it. You are probably better versed in this?
Sincerely,
Kimberly Blaker, President New Boston Fine and Rare Books 520-395-1363
Like us on Facebook and find a valuable coupon offer on our Welcome tab!
We're also on Twitter, LinkedIn, MySpace, and Tumblr.
Enter our FREE drawing for a chance to win a new leather bound Easton Press book.
Take 19th century photographic tour of Cambridge University.
And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter for future updates.
From: Deryck Chan Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:11 AM To: New Boston Fine and Rare Books Subject: Re: Unidentified locations
Dear Ms Blaker,
Also identified: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pepys_Library_c1870.jpg This one is Pepys Library in Magdalene College. I've also posted links to the Wikimedia Commons pictures from Twitter asking others in Cambridge University to help identify the remaining unidentified locations.
As for the copyright notice, I think I previously made the mistake of thinking the photos came from a collection published in the 1870s, which would be automatically out of copyright. However, I have now realised that the pictures are actually from a previously unpublished private collection, which means as copy-holder and publisher your company should enjoy 25 years of publication right... wait it's a previously unpublished British work uncovered in the United States... argh! (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Hirtle_chart)
Deryck
On 8 February 2012 14:42, New Boston Fine and Rare Books books4u29@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Deryck,
Thank you for identifying these images! I’ve added this information to my website.
If only I could determine the original photographer. Many of the originals are contact prints, but they had been trimmed, so identifying information is missing. Though when scanned and enlarged, I could see hand etched in the plate of the Master’s Garden was “J. Murray”, I believe. Though it’s hard to say if that’s the actual photographer as there was other random etching in the plate as well. If you have any idea where I might discover the photographer, possibly through Cambridge’s collections, etc., please let me know.
Best,
Kimberly Blaker, President New Boston Fine and Rare Books 520-395-1363
Like us on Facebook and find a valuable coupon offer on our Welcome tab!
We're also on Twitter, LinkedIn, MySpace, and Tumblr.
Enter our FREE drawing for a chance to win a new leather bound Easton Press book.
Take 19th century photographic tour of Cambridge University.
And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter for future updates.
From: deryckchan@wikimedia.hk Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:47 AM To: info@NewBostonFineandRareBooks.com Subject: Unidentified locations
Hello,
I am a current undergraduate of Cambridge University, and came here after seeing the uploads your team has made onto Wikimedia Commons.
I'm writing to inform you the locations of the two unidentified pictures:
http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/home//Cambridge University/57 cambridge university.jpg Gatehouse of St. John's College, Cambridge
http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/home//Cambridge University/58 cambridge university.jpg Chapel of Magdalene College, Cambridge
I also noticed that the author's copyright of the pictures have expired, and will .update the copyright licences of the pictures accordingly.
Regards, Deryck Chan
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
On 9 February 2012 17:49, Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk wrote:
I am recently engaged in a conversation with [[User:Kimberlyblaker]], who uploaded a fair amount of old, 19th century pictures onto Commons, including the album of places in Cambridge (see below) which is of particular interest to me.
What stumbled me was the copyright status of these images - are they in the public domain? If they aren't, is it due to publication right, and is Kimberly Blaker (& co.) the rightful copyright holder of them?
Deryck
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: New Boston Fine and Rare Books books4u29@hotmail.com Date: 8 February 2012 17:06 Subject: Re: Unidentified locations To: Deryck Chan deryckchan@wikimedia.hk
Dear Deryck, Thanks again, for the additional identification and for inviting assistance through twitter.
As to the copyright, I truly appreciate your help with this. Here is what I can tell you, so that you can better assess the copyright. I have an original 19th century album with original 19th albumen prints of these images. The album does not appear to have ever been published. There is no title (except for a paper label that errantly labeled it as “Oxford”. There is no title page, copyright page, author, publisher, photographer, anything whatsoever inside. The only identification is a late 20th century bookplate on which it was handwritten “Oxford University, pictures taken for William Winfield, circa middle 19th century, given to Robert Winfield early 1970s. This album formerly owned by William Winfield.” Obviously the “Oxford” note is incorrect. I assume the other details are probably correct. It is probably a family heirloom that had been handed down.
I have searched extensively, and cannot locate any of these identical images online. So I have to assume they may have never been reproduced and was likely a collection an early photographer did for himself or as a gift for a friend.
With this in mind, aside from the photographs being compiled in a photo album, it seems that it would still fall under a previously unpublished work. I own the original work, have photographed the work, and have now published the work online via my own website. So I think, I am now the official copyright holder? I’m not an expert in copyright law but have some general understanding of it. You are probably better versed in this?
Sincerely,
Kimberly Blaker, President New Boston Fine and Rare Books 520-395-1363
Like us on Facebook and find a valuable coupon offer on our Welcome tab!
We're also on Twitter, LinkedIn, MySpace, and Tumblr.
Enter our FREE drawing for a chance to win a new leather bound Easton Press book.
Take 19th century photographic tour of Cambridge University.
And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter for future updates.
From: Deryck Chan Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:11 AM To: New Boston Fine and Rare Books Subject: Re: Unidentified locations
Dear Ms Blaker,
Also identified: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pepys_Library_c1870.jpg This one is Pepys Library in Magdalene College. I've also posted links to the Wikimedia Commons pictures from Twitter asking others in Cambridge University to help identify the remaining unidentified locations.
As for the copyright notice, I think I previously made the mistake of thinking the photos came from a collection published in the 1870s, which would be automatically out of copyright. However, I have now realised that the pictures are actually from a previously unpublished private collection, which means as copy-holder and publisher your company should enjoy 25 years of publication right... wait it's a previously unpublished British work uncovered in the United States... argh! (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Hirtle_chart)
Deryck
On 8 February 2012 14:42, New Boston Fine and Rare Books books4u29@hotmail.com wrote:
Hi Deryck,
Thank you for identifying these images! I’ve added this information to my website.
If only I could determine the original photographer. Many of the originals are contact prints, but they had been trimmed, so identifying information is missing. Though when scanned and enlarged, I could see hand etched in the plate of the Master’s Garden was “J. Murray”, I believe. Though it’s hard to say if that’s the actual photographer as there was other random etching in the plate as well. If you have any idea where I might discover the photographer, possibly through Cambridge’s collections, etc., please let me know.
Best,
Kimberly Blaker, President New Boston Fine and Rare Books 520-395-1363
Like us on Facebook and find a valuable coupon offer on our Welcome tab!
We're also on Twitter, LinkedIn, MySpace, and Tumblr.
Enter our FREE drawing for a chance to win a new leather bound Easton Press book.
Take 19th century photographic tour of Cambridge University.
And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter for future updates.
From: deryckchan@wikimedia.hk Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:47 AM To: info@NewBostonFineandRareBooks.com Subject: Unidentified locations
Hello,
I am a current undergraduate of Cambridge University, and came here after seeing the uploads your team has made onto Wikimedia Commons.
I'm writing to inform you the locations of the two unidentified pictures:
http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/home//Cambridge University/57 cambridge university.jpg Gatehouse of St. John's College, Cambridge
http://www.newbostonfineandrarebooks.com/home//Cambridge University/58 cambridge university.jpg Chapel of Magdalene College, Cambridge
I also noticed that the author's copyright of the pictures have expired, and will .update the copyright licences of the pictures accordingly.
Regards, Deryck Chan
Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
The original photographer always holds copyright, unless they were produced on behalf of a company which is still liquid or a company who has bought the rights to copyright. Otherwise, if the pictures were produced before 1942 and no legal assignment has occured it would be safe to say they are in the public domain.
wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org