New subject: Hello

21 Jul 2008

----- Original Message ----

From: Thomas Dalton &lt;thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com&gt;
To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Monday, 21 July, 2008 9:48:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Hello

...
  Yours,

 -- P. 
Does "P." stand for Paul Sinclair? If so, perhaps you would like to
start by introducing yourself - keeping your on-site identity secret
does not fill one with trust... (I believe I've met you in person and
know who you are, but not everyone has had the pleasure.)

Yes, I'm him :) 

The last few emails in the archive are about the state of WMUK, introduction about me, and
reassurance if anything's actually happening. Anything else, ask.

I was into social volunteer work offline, edited a lot for a few years on Wiktionary and
Wikipedia, and enjoy it, so I went along to the meetings to find out more. A natural
extension of interest like most people here I guess. I met David at one of the 2007 wiki
meetups, we got chatting about the problems we saw, and it came out WMUK were having
problems. Fixing business problems is my job, so conversation ensued, and we discussed it
further. I had free time and relevant skills, they needed a finance guy who understood the
aims of the chapter and charity. I attended my first meeting two or so months after that
time.

I'm a career financial manager - I first ran a business in the 80's, qualified as
an ACA, moved to the board of a £multimillion company as their finance and admin manager,
and I've worked as a financial controller or manager for two PLCs and a number of
small businesses since. I'm all for open source, open knowledge, and building
something that'll help others, that's the attraction for me. Sue Gardner's
seen my CV, and my full references back to the nineties got taken when we talked.
Alison's got copies of them all. 

Where WMUK is, has been a bit of a "chicken and egg" problem. When I took on the
role, I was told it was a problem, but we're getting there on it. To register as a
charity (formally) you need to show actual, first year of registration, expected income of
£5000 or more. That's the Charity  Commission rules for registering any trust,
foundation or legal entity, as a charity. Alison has been trying to address this, and get
commitments for that level of income. (Below this level you can get HMRC tax recognition
which does the same thing financially but it's not actually "registered
charity" status. Some people get confused on that.)

Until we have committed income of £5000 or more pledged, which must not be a loan of any
kind, we have a problem under UK banking conventions. Without that status, all that WMUK
is, is a company like any other, and it gets treated as a business by almost every high
street bank or building society - business banking, charges, minimum balance, and so on.
The full works. If WMUK were a trust, club, or any other unincorporated entity, then it
would be easier, but it isn't. That would also be a fundamental change to WMUK's
structure and nobody is inclined to do that if it can be avoided. (If we did, then
migrating back later and legal paperworks would be expensive, and a procedural/legal pain
in the posterior.) Thus in effect, with the present structure, a non-profit bank account
really requires charitable status; charitable status really requires a bank account, and
that circle is what's held it back previously.

The options going forward all require circumventing the chicken and egg situation that the
HMRC and CC have. There's ways to do that; a few we can do ourselves, one or two of
the quickest would take some arranging and funds. Getting £5000 of prospective commitments
is almost the easiest (no change to the company at all, direct charitable registration),
so we're working on that too, but that one takes time. I appreciate it's taken a
ridiculously long time to date, but hopefully that will be resolved in the fairly near
future now. Alison and I are meeting up this week to review how it's going and decide
which route's the best. After some discussion with HMRC and the Charity Commission,
I'm looking at one other option that's promising, but it needs careful review
before going ahead. If it would work, then it would be a quick resolution, but even so
getting the commitment level is still preferable.

I'm not sure what else I can usefully say at this time. I will promise a regular
update until it's resolved, and action, though, that's the best I can do. It's
a full board matter rather than a purely treasury one. I'll give it my best and now
I'm signed up, I'll try to keep the list in the picture.

Paul Sinclair
businessfirst

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