Wikimediauk-l April 2009

wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org

36 participants
45 discussions

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: Charity application rejected
by Andrew Turvey 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

Hi Alison, Taking your points in turn: 1. "whomever wrote and signed off on those letters appears to have caused the initial confusion and, indeed, current problem. Somehow this needs to be retracted big time." I put the full letter received from HMRC in my original post. The relevant part of our letter to them - which was drafted by me and signed off by the Board - was: " Wikimedia UK – the operating name of Wiki UK Limited – has been set up to support the “Wikipedia” website and the other projects of the Wikimedia Foundation, in ways that are compatible with UK charity law. These supporting actions all follow our ultimate aim of promoting education, culture and heritage. The Foundation is a US registered charity, but the rules are slightly different so Wikimedia UK has been established as an independent organisation, free to apply its funds as it chooses." Supporting the Wikimedia projects is what we are here to do. I do not accept that I have misrepresented the chapter at all or that there would be any benefit in "retracting" anything. There has been no confusion. Dressing it up in different words won't change anything, and adding "charitable" to the Memorandum & Articles won't make HMRC look at it any differently. Wiki Educational Resources never got to the stage of applying for charity recognition, so we can't say that thet case would have been treated any differently. Supporting Wikimedia projects is what we did in the Wikipedia Loves Art project and the Wikimania Conference planning - the two activities we were able to provide in our correspondence with HMRC. Focusing on a project other than Wikipedia would not help us at all - our activities have to be exclusively charitable so if supporting Wikipedia doesn't pass, then supporting a group of projects including Wikipedia won't pass either. Besides, Wikipedia is the most widely known project and in practice the one we'll spend most of our time supporting. That's the one everyone's heard of - so lets use it when talking to external people. 2. "with WMUKv1, I undertook a number of teaching / education activities" WMUK also has plans for education activities - for instance http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Projects/Proposals#Schools_project . Hopefully this example can help us in our appeal. 3. "WMUK/WER has only ever been "a Charitable organisation" until such time as it may be recognised as such." Not true. Being a charity is a matter of fact and not dependent on official recognition. As an organistion who reasonably considered themselves to be a charity, under the £5,000 Charity Commission limit and applying for HMRC recognition it was perfectly reasonable for us to describe ourselves as an "exempt charity" - which we occasionally did, albeit that most of the time we haven't seen the need to say anything at all about our charity status. 4. "Directors and their advisors should have sorted out a position on these matters - and with the assistance of those at the AGM tomorrow - before making this public at all" I don't accept this at all and it's not the way we've been doing things. We agreed at the outset that we would be open, transparant and participative - what we've done here is an example of this. We've always kept our supporters informed every step of the way. As soon as I received the letter I wanted to let our supporters on the email list know and have a broad debate about what we should do as a next step. The AGM will no doubt discuss this tomorrow as will the new Board in it's first meeting. There's no need to rush into anything and no advantage in keeping it under wraps and springing it on everyone tomorrow. Having something discussed in public is not the same as contacting the press. Andrew ---- Original Message ----- From: "Alison Wheeler" <wikimedia(a)alisonwheeler.com> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 25 April, 2009 14:04:15 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: Charity application rejected All, I cannot speak as to the formalities behind the current WMUK, but a number of points do arise. 1. "In your letters of 23 November 2008 and 4 March 2009 you state that the primary purpose of setting up the company is to support the 'Wikipedia' website." if true, whomever wrote and signed off on those letters appears to have caused the initial confusion and, indeed, current problem. Somehow this needs to be retracted big time. In the WMUKv1 Memorandum we had clearly separated ourselves from WMF/WP and wrote clearly Charitable (within the meaning of the relevant laws) terms to pass those hurdles. So far as I read the discussions for WMUKv2 the MoA wasn't so clear in that respect being much looser. 2. From Re Shaw, Public Trustee v Day [1957] "(a) increase of knowledge is not a charitable purpose unless combined with an element of teaching or education," is one of their reasons for the rejection. Certainly, with WMUKv1, I undertook a number of teaching / education activities on behalf of the Chapter, including training days for the British Library et al. 3. Re Thomas's "We need either stop using the word "charity" entirely ..." I would suggest that it should never have been used in the first place. WMUK/WER has only ever been "a Charitable organisation" until such time as it may be recognised as such. 4. Regarding early comments about "going to the media", by definition once it was on this public list it is already there. Arguably the Directors and their advisors should have sorted out a position on these matters - and with the assistance of those at the AGM tomorrow - before making this public at all. Instead brewery matters come to mind. Best wishes for the future, Alison Wheeler _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: Charity application rejected
by Virgin, Steve 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

I am media consultant at dow jones and I am a member of this group and a member of wikimedia uk and I am not telling anyone. When we are ready I can give anything the board wishes to emea editor at dow jones newswires personally. I also know editor of wall street journal too. But nothing comes from me before the board sanctions it. I am 'onside' and 'ally'. I want to help not be an obstacle. -----Original Message----- From: wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org To: wikimedia(a)alisonwheeler.com; wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sat Apr 25 14:12:55 2009 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: Charity application rejected 2009/4/25 Alison Wheeler <wikimedia(a)alisonwheeler.com>: > All, > > I cannot speak as to the formalities behind the current WMUK, but a number > of points do arise. > > 1. "In your letters of 23 November 2008 and 4 March 2009 you state that > the primary purpose of setting up the company is to support the > 'Wikipedia' website." if true, whomever wrote and signed off on those > letters appears to have caused the initial confusion and, indeed, current > problem. Somehow this needs to be retracted big time. In the WMUKv1 > Memorandum we had clearly separated ourselves from WMF/WP and wrote > clearly Charitable (within the meaning of the relevant laws) terms to pass > those hurdles. So far as I read the discussions for WMUKv2 the MoA wasn't > so clear in that respect being much looser. I think the objects in the MoA are fine, but too much emphasis has been put on our connections to the WMF in other communications - the same mistake was made with opening a bank account and caused considerable delay. Hopefully everyone has learned from that mistake now. > 2. From Re Shaw, Public Trustee v Day [1957] "(a) increase of knowledge is > not a charitable purpose unless combined with an element of teaching or > education," is one of their reasons for the rejection. Certainly, with > WMUKv1, I undertook a number of teaching / education activities on behalf > of the Chapter, including training days for the British Library et al. > > 3. Re Thomas's "We need either stop using the word "charity" entirely ..." > I would suggest that it should never have been used in the first place. > WMUK/WER has only ever been "a Charitable organisation" until such time as > it may be recognised as such. Exempt charities are charities and do not need to recognised by anyone unless someone actually contests our charitable status and a judge orders us to stop calling ourselves a charity - I doubt this HMRC decision is enough, but we should err on the side of caution. > 4. Regarding early comments about "going to the media", by definition once > it was on this public list it is already there. Arguably the Directors and > their advisors should have sorted out a position on these matters - and > with the assistance of those at the AGM tomorrow - before making this > public at all. Instead brewery matters come to mind. Do many (any?) people from the media read this list? It is public knowledge now, but that doesn't mean it is likely to end up in the media unless we take action to make that happen. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

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Hmrc
by Virgin, Steve 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

My suggested route map 1) Explore all orthodox channels with appeals, legal etc 2) Lobby mps en masse 3) Look for supporters in official places (any body keen on promoting skills, learning and innovation _ are many but off top of head skills council) 4) Media. We'd win easily. Maybe another stage between 1 and 2 that I cannot think of now.

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Law advice
by Virgin, Steve 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

Won't do anything with anyone unless it is agreed. -----Original Message----- From: wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sat Apr 25 13:34:06 2009 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Law advice 2009/4/25 Virgin, Steve <Steve.Virgin(a)dowjones.com>: > > He is also a former labour party 'attack dog' from 1997 when they were popular so he may know some people in govt too. Given recent revelations, is he the sort of person we wish to have connections with? _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

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Law advice
by Virgin, Steve 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

No promises but I know someone connected to the public affairs world who specialises in advising law firms in the uk so knows lawyers who can see odd angles in cases. He has been involved with some crazy cases over the years. If he cannot help he will know a man who can. I will come and listen in manchester and then see if I can get to see him next week. He is also a former labour party 'attack dog' from 1997 when they were popular so he may know some people in govt too.

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Charity application rejected
by Andrew Turvey 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

Just to clarify what I meant about Gift Aid: At the moment our membership and donation forms include a Gift Aid declaration which we're encouraging people to fill in. This means that if/when we eventually do become recognised as a charity we will be able to claim all the back payments from HMRC without having to go back to people who donated in the past and ask them to make a retrospective declaration. Of course we don't actually get any money from HMRC until we are recognised but it makes the process simpler afterwards. When we applied for recognition we specifically asked HMRC whether we could get declarations before we were registered and they said yes we were fine to do that. Given the developments we could either: 1) Continue with the forms as they are 2) Remove the declarations completely, or 3) Continue to ask people for declarations but add a caveat that HMRC are contesting our charitable status and Gift Aid will only be reclaimable if they agree My suggestion is we do (3) so that it's easier to reclaim if/when we do get recognised. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Cohen" <peterc(a)cix.compulink.co.uk> To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, 25 April, 2009 12:29:00 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland, Portugal Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Charity application rejected In-Reply-To: <84FD18C8-7BAE-4F64-A675-047B6A40019F(a)mikepeel.net> Two bits one highlighted from what Andrew Turvey said: > > Whilst we can still get Gift Aid declarations (HMRC > > have previously confirmed this was ok) we should probably add a > > caveat on the form explaining that our charitable status is > > contested. And one from the email from HMRC: > > Wiki UK Ltd is not established for charitable purposes only as > > required by the legislation and so is not a charity for tax > > purposes. The charity tax examptions and reliefs (including Gift > > Aid tax relief) are not, therefore, available to Wiki UK Ltd. I think you would be on dangerous ground using Gift Aid at all. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Charity application rejected
by peterc＠cix.compulink.co.uk 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

In-Reply-To: <84FD18C8-7BAE-4F64-A675-047B6A40019F(a)mikepeel.net> Two bits one highlighted from what Andrew Turvey said: > > Whilst we can still get Gift Aid declarations (HMRC > > have previously confirmed this was ok) we should probably add a > > caveat on the form explaining that our charitable status is > > contested. And one from the email from HMRC: > > Wiki UK Ltd is not established for charitable purposes only as > > required by the legislation and so is not a charity for tax > > purposes. The charity tax examptions and reliefs (including Gift > > Aid tax relief) are not, therefore, available to Wiki UK Ltd. I think you would be on dangerous ground using Gift Aid at all.

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Wikimedia UK AGM - contact phone number
by Michael Peel 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

Hi all, If have any difficulties finding the location of the AGM tomorrow (details below in case you don't already have them), then please phone me on 07988 013 646 (the Wikimedia UK phone number) and I'll give you directions. If you have any questions about how to get to Kro, please let me know. So that you can recognize the building, I've taken a couple of photos, which are at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Manchester#Kro_Bar Thanks, Mike Peel The AGM will be held in Kro-Bar, 325 Oxford Road, opposite the main entrance to Manchester University Students' Union. We will be upstairs in the Matlock Rooms. Directions to kro-bar are at [1] and their website for more information is at [2]. Full address in at [3]. Downstairs will be open from 10:30 in the morning to 10:30 at night for anyone wanting to eat or drink before or after the AGM. [1] http://maps.google.co.uk/maps? f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Oxford+Rd,+Manchester,+Greater +Manchester+M13, +UK&sll=52.925384,-1.212973&sspn=0.086308,0.253716&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll= 53.464883,-2.232379&panoid=0hk59f_vMnNIBxaHTX1fbQ&cbp=11,90.043771785740 16,,0,5&ll=53.464854,-2.232456&spn=0.01911,0.126858&z=13&iwloc=A [2] http://www.kro.co.uk [3] Kro Bar, 325 Oxford Rd., Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester, M13 9PG

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Greater London Opensource Writers meetup: Mon 27th April
by David Gerard 25 Apr '09

25 Apr '09

http://glow-london.blogspot.com/2009/04/glow-in-april.html That's this London. I can't make it, but someone probably should. - d.

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Wikimedia Foundation and Orange partnership
by Michael Peel 23 Apr '09

23 Apr '09

Announced this morning: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/ Orange_and_Wikimedia_announce_partnership_April_2009 Orange forms world’s first mobile and internet partnership with the Wikimedia Foundation * This partnership, the first of its kind, will expand the reach of Wikimedia content through co-branded channels on Orange’s mobile and web portals * The two partners will work together to develop new services and features around content from Wikipedia, the flagship project of the Wikimedia Foundation. Paris and San Francisco, 23 April 2009 Orange and the Wikimedia Foundation today announced a wide-ranging strategic partnership designed to mutually benefit each organization’s users by extending the way people can access free knowledge. Orange, the European telco leader in internet audience ranking, with 55 million unique visitors per month*, will initially provide customers in France, the UK, Spain and Poland with quick and simple access to co-branded content from the Wikimedia Foundation, the non- profit organization behind the web encyclopedia Wikipedia. Partnership activities include: * creating specific Wikipedia channels on Orange mobile and web portals * enriching sections of the Orange web and mobile portals with links to relevant Wikipedia information * developing mobile and web-based widgets which enable customers to access Wikipedia content directly from their Orange mobile or web homepage Phase two of the agreement will see the two organisations cooperate to create a range of simple but innovative new services drawing on Orange’s skills as a total communications provider across mobile, internet and television. In addition, the partnership will be rolled out across the rest of Orange’s European footprint. Commenting on the agreement, Paul-François Fournier, Executive Vice President, Audience Line of Business, Orange, said: “At Orange we are committed to giving people maximum access to the widest range of digital technologies and to simplifying the way people use these technologies to access information. By bringing our customers a new way to access content from Wikipedia, one of the world’s most recognised and popular internet brands, we are delivering on this commitment.” “The Wikimedia Foundation is dedicated to spreading knowledge to as many people as possible, in as many ways as possible,” said Sue Gardner, Executive Director of the Wikimedia Foundation. “Orange's leadership in mobile and focus on innovation makes them an ideal partner to help us extend our reach. The Foundation welcomes partnerships that help us carry out our mission and that respect the valuable contributions of the Wikimedia community” This partnership is part of Orange’s strategy to provide the most popular and compelling content to its customers and will increase the reach of Wikimedia services, particularly in the European mobile market and at a time when mobile internet usage is soaring. Through this partnership Orange is also supporting the Wikimedia Foundation's core mission of enhancing and expanding the reach of Wikipedia and other collaborative knowledge projects to new users. Learn more about the Orange Wikimedia partnership on video at www.orange-innovation.tv/wikimedia.

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