I've emailed Cary on this.
Paul Sinclair.
----- Original Message ----
From: Cary Bass <cbass(a)wikimedia.org>
To: wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Wednesday, 30 July, 2008 12:34:07 AM
Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia UK
The Foundation is more than happy to work with the Wikimedia UK. I'm
sure if a request was made to the foundation that would move Wikimedia
UK in a manner that would benefit both the Wikimedia UK, I'm sure the
Foundation would be more than happy to do what we're able. As far as
I'm concerned, a simple £5,000 to help Wikimedia UK achieve that all
important status to benefit both Wikimedia UK and the Wikimedia
Foundation. I am neither, however, the Chapters Coordinator or the
Executive Director and cannot make any official claim as such; I am just
stating that the chapter should be free to contact us if it needs help
with anything whasoever.
That being said, I do hope that the issues risen on this list with
regard to the legal status of Wikimedia UK and the update of its board
with Companies House are addressed.
- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator
__________________________________________________________
Not happy with your email address?.
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Tom et al,
I agree - your analysis is spot on in my opinion. This is why we should
keep the discussion going, find a space on (a) wiki to collect all the ideas
/ thoughts / proposals and then bring out a burner proposal!
Ian
2008/7/29 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>
> I don't think that's an option. Just look at the distribution of bids:
> with 4+ pages from Europe (France are also considering multiple cities), 1
> from the Americas (Rio, which hasn't got a chance in hell after Buenos
> Aries) and one from Asia/Pacific (Melbourne).
>
>
>
> There's a pretty strong impression that this is Europe's year. If we lose
> then to Amsterdam or Stockholm (the most advanced bids by the look of it) we
> will be out of contention for at least another 3 years. Melbourne also has a
> shot on the continental rotation (which I presume is why Al has decided to
> support them... hmm...) but even if they won we probably wouldn't have a
> shot the next year as I imagine they wouldn't want to give it to two English
> speaking countries in a row. (And if they were prepared to do this I would
> imagine there would be some pretty tough competition from the US.)
>
>
>
> So let's act as if this is our one shot. If by some miracle Rio wins then
> at that point we can think about going again, until then if you want to see
> Wikimania in the UK in the next few years I'd recommend you to do all you
> can to help our 2010 bid win.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> *From:* wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *joseph seddon
> *Sent:* 29 July 2008 12:06
> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Oxford: new venue?
>
>
>
> There is one option which to be honest i don't think many will agree but
> thought id throw it into the pot. At this moment in
> time we have around 3 months to get everything sorted as i believe and
> although we have got alot of momentum, Im
> wondering whether its worth perhaps thinking about a 2011 bid and giving
> ourselves more time to thoroughly think this
> through and get ourselves organised. What we could do is to continue what
> we are doing but to use 2010 more as a proof
> of concept as i doubt that with WMUK not having charity status we are going
> to struggle to get the vast amounts of
> sponsorship we need. I know this is a little defeatist but I just think
> that id rather wait a year to put in a bid that is solid
> and well thought through than trying to rush to get one in. Please feel
> free to use the clue stick :)
> ------------------------------
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:30:46 +0100
> > From: martinp23(a)googlemail.com
> > To: peterc(a)cix.compulink.co.uk; wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Oxford: new venue?
> >
> > 2008/7/28 Peter Cohen <peterc(a)cix.compulink.co.uk>:
> > > In-Reply-To: <
> a4359dff0807281452y4c39a617ua92a135098ffc775(a)mail.gmail.com>
> > >> > Is there a reason that people are going for university facilities
> > >> > and not
> > >> > hotels? Science Fiction Conventions tend to be hotel based.
> > >>
> > >> Do Sci Fi conventions generally have talks aimed at groups of 500
> > >> people? I don't think hotels can accommodate such large
> > >> conferences.
> > >
> > > This year's Easter Science Fiction convention was at the Radisson
> > > Edwardian Heathrow which has two conference suites that could be built
> to
> > > that size.
> > > http://www.radissonedwardian.com/rad/edw/PDFs/c&bbrochure08.pdf
> > >
> > > Next years is at the Cedar Court Bradford
> > > http://www.cedarcourthotels.co.uk/page.asp?pageID=46. Then it's back
> to
> > > the Radisson.
> > >
> > > Recent Easter SF cons have been at hotels in Chester, Hinckley,
> Glasgow,
> > > Liverpool (but shall I say that I was not surprised that one of the MOD
> > > missing computers was stolen from a room in the Liverpool Adelphi). The
> > > Brighton Metropole had a big conferencing area in the rear, but the
> > > management and the SF community fell out in the late 80s and we haven't
> > > been back since.
> > >
> > > There's an association of conferencing facilities (or there was in the
> > > 1980s who you could write to with your specs and they would put your
> > > details in a circular to members.)
> >
> >
> > Cheap dig at Liverpool there :(.
> >
> > But back to the point, I think there could be some merit in
> > investigating non-University approaches. During the Summer Hols, they
> > really are out to make as much money as they can with conferencing.
> > We may be able to find something a little cheaper by thinking outside
> > this box - I'm slightly amazed that the Alexandria team got all that
> > they did for free, though I do suspect that with some effort we may be
> > able to get close...
> >
> > That said, I personally lack ideas at the moment... It is worth
> > keeping our eyes and minds open though.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> > http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Win £3000 to spend on whatever you want at Uni! Click here to WIN!<http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719803/direct/01/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
The Foundation is more than happy to work with the Wikimedia UK. I'm
sure if a request was made to the foundation that would move Wikimedia
UK in a manner that would benefit both the Wikimedia UK, I'm sure the
Foundation would be more than happy to do what we're able. As far as
I'm concerned, a simple £5,000 to help Wikimedia UK achieve that all
important status to benefit both Wikimedia UK and the Wikimedia
Foundation. I am neither, however, the Chapters Coordinator or the
Executive Director and cannot make any official claim as such; I am just
stating that the chapter should be free to contact us if it needs help
with anything whasoever.
That being said, I do hope that the issues risen on this list with
regard to the legal status of Wikimedia UK and the update of its board
with Companies House are addressed.
- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator
Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
Fax: 415.882.0495
E-Mail: cary(a)wikimedia.org
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2008/7/29 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> I don't think that's an option. Just look at the distribution of bids: with
> 4+ pages from Europe (France are also considering multiple cities), 1 from
> the Americas (Rio, which hasn't got a chance in hell after Buenos Aries) and
> one from Asia/Pacific (Melbourne).
>
>
>
> There's a pretty strong impression that this is Europe's year. If we lose
> then to Amsterdam or Stockholm (the most advanced bids by the look of it) we
> will be out of contention for at least another 3 years.
It's a good point. We should do everything we can to get 2010. We've
got plenty of time, the official bidding period hasn't even started
yet, we don't need a finished bid until the *end* of the period.
On 7/29/08, Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well there will certainly be decent social spaces in the accommodation,
> with common rooms with sofas and gardens with deck chairs and the space for
> a marquee. Other than booking the smaller rooms as dedicated social spaces
> the possibilities for social spaces at the Town Hall are a bit limited
> beyond the foyer. If people are in lectures for most of the day is just
> having good social spaces near the accommodation (5-10 mins walk from the
> town hall) sufficient?
>
That's certainly better than nothing - though it's definitely preferable to
allow for as many opportunities to bump into people as possible - which
diminishes when you have the social spaces removed from the presentation
spaces. And really, don't presume that people will be in lectures all day -
there is usually a lot of activity outside sessions with spill-over
discussions from previous sessions, press interviews, mini-presentations,
and many other impromptu pow-wows and chats. In fact (and this is the case
with most conferences), many people find the most interesting discussions
for them personally take place outside scheduled sessions. So - just how big
is that foyer? :-) It doesn't look so substantial from what I can see from <
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/leisure/Venuehire.cfm>. And that ice cream place
wouldn't be anything like what we need as a genuinely social, malleable
space. So this lack of convenient social space is still a concern for me
with this proposed venue - and I know other Wikimaniacs will be thinking
along the same lines.
That's good to know about the public transport - though I wonder if it might
still be an idea to look into additional shuttles around the peak times of
anticipated arrival/departure?
Cheers,Cormac
2008/7/29 Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com>:
> I personally really do not think relying on public transport would
> be that bad though, particularly if we had people in Wikimedia T-Shirts
> ushering people in the right direction at either end. I'm not sure that by
> hiring a coach we could ever provide a service as good as this:
Indeed I suspect finding people to help (particularly if we cover
expenses) will be less of a problem than finding money or items at
reduced cost.
--
geni
Thanks for this, Tom - those numbers sound fine. (And btw, my numbers were
simply suggestions.) Also, we used the main hall for talks other than
keynotes in Frankfurt, 2005.
Social spaces are really key, and I'd like a bit more detail on how many
people can comfortably hang around the foyer area you mentioned. Bear in
mind that these are possibly the most important spaces of the conference -
where people can hang out, show each other their Cool Projects (TM), chat
face to face (always a buzz). Drinks such as tea & coffee would be good to
have in continuous supply (as we had in Taipei), which is one of the other
criticisms of Alexandria - and one of the recent suggestions is to get
sponsorship from a drinks supplier like Coca Cola or Starbucks.
I should point out here another of the criticisms of this year which was the
transport to the venue - ie the lack of an international airport in
Alexandria, and the somewhat less than ideal shuttle arrangements from the
nearest international airport (Cairo). This will be a serious challenge to
Oxford, and would be something I would put a lot of thought and work into in
order to make Oxford a serious practical contender. I would suggest that
leaving people entirely to public transport will not be good enough.
Cormac
On 7/29/08, Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here are the Town Hall's numbers, copied and pasted from an earlier
> e-mail (updated now we know about the balcony):
>
>
>
> Main Hall: 500 + 242 on balcony
>
> Assembly Room: 200
>
> Old Library: 120
>
> Council Chamber: 105
>
> Long Room: 70
>
> Court Room: 43
>
> St. Aldates Room: 40
>
> Plowman Room: 30
>
> Panel Room: 30
>
>
>
> And then 3 other smaller rooms, and 1 not suitable for presentations.
>
>
>
> This comes close to your req of (1x200, 2x150, 3x80) particularly if we use
> the Main Hall for talks other than just the opening closing ones. It would
> be fairly easy to get more medium sized rooms in other buildings (e.g.
> college/department lecture theatres) were we to decide that was necessary.
>
>
>
> The alternative if we don't like either this or the split room main talk
> suggestion is to book either just the main hall of the Town Hall and Exam
> Schools, or the Sheldonian and Exam Schools. The latter option would enable
> us to accommodate a truly gigantic conference with rooms of sizes 1000,
> 2x450, 250, + 14 rooms of sizes 10 to 120.
>
>
>
> As for catering and social spaces: I imagine dinners at least would be
> provided in whatever college we're booking up and perhaps lunches too. The
> college would also provide social spaces for the evening. During the day we
> could have drinks stands in the foyer of the Town Hall/Exam Schools or a
> marquee up in Exam Schools quad. Remember though that we are bang in a city
> centre, so people could leave the building for 2 mins and come back with a
> drink and a baguette from a shop.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> *From:* wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Cormac Lawler
> *Sent:* 29 July 2008 15:50
> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimania Oxford 2010 Tasks + What is it OK
> to offer the OII in return at this stage
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/28/08, *Tom Holden* <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well there certainly are larger venues than the town hall in Oxford.
> (Though the town hall may be able to accommodate more than 500. Their
> website suggests both 500 and around 750. I've sent off a clarification
> e-mail about this.) The Sheldonian can seat up to 1000 and the Playhouse can
> seat 613.
>
>
>
> Using both of the two 450 seating rooms at Exam schools is another
> possibility perhaps. We could have cameras and projectors in both rooms, and
> take it in turns between having a live video feed from the 1st to the 2nd,
> and a live feed from the 2nd to the 1st. (This would obviously only work
> if there were going to be multiple speakers in the talk.)
>
>
>
> Breaking up a single session between different spaces would make for a
> pretty impoverished experience, in my opinion. (If I understand you
> correctly.)
>
>
>
> Just to be clear on what we need - we need a large theatre/room that holds
> *all* delegates (say, 700) for openings/keynotes/closings; then we need a
> range of medium-sized rooms that hold groups of people (eg. 1x200, 2x150,
> 3x80) for presentations; then we need a communal space (or several spaces)
> where people can mingle, chat, display posters, have coffee, etc. In
> addition, we will probably need somewhere to eat communally - this wasn't
> provided for in Alexandria, but it has been one of the criticisms of the
> conference raised in its wake.
>
>
>
>
> Cormac
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediauk-l(a)wikimedia.org
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_UK
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
>
On 7/28/08, Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well there certainly are larger venues than the town hall in Oxford.
> (Though the town hall may be able to accommodate more than 500. Their
> website suggests both 500 and around 750. I've sent off a clarification
> e-mail about this.) The Sheldonian can seat up to 1000 and the Playhouse can
> seat 613.
>
>
>
> Using both of the two 450 seating rooms at Exam schools is another
> possibility perhaps. We could have cameras and projectors in both rooms, and
> take it in turns between having a live video feed from the 1st to the 2nd,
> and a live feed from the 2nd to the 1st. (This would obviously only work
> if there were going to be multiple speakers in the talk.)
>
Breaking up a single session between different spaces would make for a
pretty impoverished experience, in my opinion. (If I understand you
correctly.)
Just to be clear on what we need - we need a large theatre/room that holds
*all* delegates (say, 700) for openings/keynotes/closings; then we need a
range of medium-sized rooms that hold groups of people (eg. 1x200, 2x150,
3x80) for presentations; then we need a communal space (or several spaces)
where people can mingle, chat, display posters, have coffee, etc. In
addition, we will probably need somewhere to eat communally - this wasn't
provided for in Alexandria, but it has been one of the criticisms of the
conference raised in its wake.
Cormac
On 7/28/08, Tom Holden <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> wrote:**
*
*
*From:* wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
wikimediauk-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *Cormac Lawler
>
> *Sent:* 28 July 2008 12:31
> *To:* wikimediauk-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimania 2010 - Manchester?
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/27/08, *Tom Holden* <thomas.holden(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think sending off a few exploratory e-mails would hurt though, if
> only so we had a benchmark to compare Oxford's costs against.
>
>
>
>
> I made enquiries about Manchester last year (for Wikimania '09) and I got
> the following quotes: Renold building - £34 (plus VAT) per person per day
> (including lunch); en-suite B&B accommodation £38.50 (plus VAT) pp pd (in
> university halls). University Place [1] is similarly priced (however,
> accommodation may not be available on-or-adjacent-to site).
>
>
>
> I'm also a postgrad student at the University of Manchester, and am more
> than willing to make further investigations. I've also attended all four
> Wikimanias so far, so I have some understanding of what is required.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cormac
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.conference.manchester.ac.uk/meetingmanchester/meetingandaccommod…
>
> Well with the charity discount Oxford Town Hall would be £6000 for the 3
> days (plus £4 * 500 * 3 for lunch perhaps to make the comparison fair =
> another £6000). But £34 * 500 * 3 = £51000 > £12000... (Without the charity
> discount it'd be another £6000, which is still less than half of your
> Manchester quote.)
>
>
>
> Seems rather more expensive than I was expecting Manchester to be. Are you
> sure you're not paying for services usually provided to us by volunteers?
>
>
>
> Tom
>
I double checked - the price I was quoted for University of Manchester
includes hire of venue, catering, and A/V support - all things that we would
require. And there is no option for pricing the venue "all-in" - it is only
priced per delegate.
In fact, the price you are quoting seems very cheap - I've just priced
probably the only other place in Manchester which could hold Wikimania
(albeit a pretty expensive venue anyway - the GMEX [2]), and that works out
somewhere in the region of £27,000 per day. They did, however, say that
there might be room for discount as it would be in their quiet season, and
possible funding available through Visit Manchester (tourism board)...
Cheers,
Cormac
[2] http://www.manchestercentral.co.uk/ or
http://www.conferences-uk.org.uk/conference_venues_uk.asp?venue=Manchester%…