(sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) Hi Bodhi I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions. //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. // Regards, Yohann Thomas Secretary Wikimedia India On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi Yohann, > > Thanks for your mail. > > If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many > participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the > meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the > meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary > of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any > affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in > that conference, he can represent the affiliate. > > In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya > Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on > behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge > amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where > his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members > unfit to attend such meeting? > > Waiting for your reply, > Bodhisattwa > > > On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > Dear Bodhi & other community members > > First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia > India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion > on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid > volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, > there was a delay in drafting a reply. > > As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run > organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards > the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user > groups) in their volunteer roles. > > Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't > financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is > fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. > > Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles > in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to > attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around > the world. > In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended > the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then > subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting > at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. > > > https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… > > With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund > its trip & they accepted his proposal. > > Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to > appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation > to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his > term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different > issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I > wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going > through a difficult time. > > Regards, > Yohann Thomas > Secretary > Wikimedia India > > ---- > On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < > bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape >> Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why >> was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India >> who were in the waiting list. >> >> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The >> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and >> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the >> meeting. >> >> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >> >> Thanks, >> Bodhisattwa >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > > _______________________________________________

Hi Yohann, Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single word. My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective. 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups, there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year.

2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide the documentation of his invitation? [1] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018 [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018

3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?

4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So, sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain that?

5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?

I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it personally. Waiting for your detailed reply, Bodhisattwa

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) > > Hi Bodhi > > I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I > can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions. > > //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier > attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & > then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the > Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link > below. > > > https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… > > With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund > its trip & they accepted his proposal. // > > > Regards, > Yohann Thomas > Secretary > Wikimedia India > > > On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < > bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi Yohann, >> >> Thanks for your mail. >> >> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that >> many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the >> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the >> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary >> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any >> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in >> that conference, he can represent the affiliate. >> >> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya >> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on >> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge >> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where >> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members >> unfit to attend such meeting? >> >> Waiting for your reply, >> Bodhisattwa >> >> >> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> Dear Bodhi & other community members >> >> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia >> India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion >> on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid >> volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, >> there was a delay in drafting a reply. >> >> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run >> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards >> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user >> groups) in their volunteer roles. >> >> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't >> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is >> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. >> >> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles >> in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to >> attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around >> the world. >> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier >> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & >> then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's >> meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >> >> >> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >> >> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund >> its trip & they accepted his proposal. >> >> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want >> to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in >> relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter >> before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on >> different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory >> hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter >> is going through a difficult time. >> >> Regards, >> Yohann Thomas >> Secretary >> Wikimedia India >> >> ---- >> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in >>> Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question >>> is why was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from >>> India who were in the waiting list. >>> >>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The >>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and >>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the >>> meeting. >>> >>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Bodhisattwa >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

> > A2K providing support to the community (Wikimedia India included) in general is a good practice. Maybe this is the right time for the community to come forward to share what they feel should be the right way (or ways) A2K could follow while supporting someone from Wikimedia India. The way they support the individual Wikimedians (from the scholarship waitlist) seems fairly simple and straightforward. Supporting WMIN lies in a grey area because one individual from 7 people gets selected. The consensus process involved in that process need to be more transparent. Yes ! Definitely. Transparency is the key. I am glad that CIS-A2K stood firm in apologising. This is a very welcome step. However as pointed out in my previous mail, supporting a scholarship reciepient in waiting and a speaker are two different subjects. I am not sure if judgements such as 'grey areas' should be made but Yes it calls for a discussion on how things should work upon. The consensus process is also something that calls for a discussion. From informing the team members to taking consensus, the community's will on this should be recorded with the Chapter. It is nice to hear that EC was copied in the request mail and aderance to transparecy is being made. > > Subhashish P.S : I may be slow in responses to future mails for the next 6 days. I am no travel. Abhinav > >> On Aug 5, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Bodhisattwa Mandal &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> I was expecting a reply from WMIN. >> >> Thanks, >> Bodhisattwa >> >>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 14:25 Abhinav srivastava, &lt;abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> Hello Bodhisattva, >>> >>> Please allow me to respond to your confusions. Responses in line. >>> >>> Again, as stated in my first mail on the thread, you are making too many value-judgments with un-friendly tone. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:27 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> Hi Yohann, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. >>>> >>>> >>>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single word. >>>> >>>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective. >>>> >>>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups, there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year. >>> >>> If you check the agenda section, WMIN President gave a talk on Conflict Resolution, this is followed my summary in the notes. When there are so many conflicts in Wikimedia communities across the globle, someone from India is invited to put this theories towards resolution. This is a welcome step. From Notes to his Summary Talk to how this will be carried forward for future course, every thing is documented. >>> >>> He did not simply attend the meeting as a participant or representing Wikimedia India, he was a lead on the 3rd point of the Agenda which is Conflcit Resolution. Everything on it is documented. >>> >>>> >>>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide the documentation of his invitation? >>>> >>>> [1] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018 >>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018 >>>> >>> I am sure when Wikimedia India President is invited to give a talk on a defined Agenda, 'Conflict Resolution' and CIS-A2K is approving his request, he must on record have recieved an invitation. >>> >>> It cannot be that without an invitation someone would travel so far. Also, please remember, unlike WMF staff or CIS-A2K, when someone from Wikimedia India has to travel, he has to forgoe his personal paid holidays. WMF staff or CIS-A2K travel abroad calling it 'On Work'. >>>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so? >>>> >>> This is about merit of the particular individual. This has nothing to do with the other Two EC. >>> >>> Secondly, stating this again, he didn't travel simply to attend the meeting, he was given a set agenda to speak that is 'Conflict Resolution'. It was a subject of one's personal merit on which the organising committee invited him, this cannot be passed to other members of the same affiliate. >>>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So, sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain that? >>>> >>> I do not think that if Wikimedia India President didn't go someone else would have been promoted. CIS-A2K should give a clarification on this. >>> >>> Simply stating it once again, he didn't just travel to attend the conference, he was a speaker. This is entirely a different subject. >>>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer? >>>> >>> In response to statement 4. >>>> >>>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it personally. >>>> >>>> Waiting for your detailed reply, >>>> >>>> Bodhisattwa >>>> >>> >>> Additional Comment : When someone India is selected or rather invited to give talk in an attempt to resolve the global problem. For me, this is a welcome step. >>> >>> I am sorry but again I find you to harsh towards the India Chapter. This is my personal observation. >>> >>> Abhinav >>> >>>> >>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) >>>>> >>>>> Hi Bodhi >>>>> >>>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions. >>>>> >>>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>>> >>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >>>>> >>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. // >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>> Secretary >>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> Hi Yohann, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your mail. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in that conference, he can represent the affiliate. >>>>>> >>>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members unfit to attend such meeting? >>>>>> >>>>>> Waiting for your reply, >>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members >>>>>> >>>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply. >>>>>> >>>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer roles. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. >>>>>> >>>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world. >>>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >>>>>> >>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going through a difficult time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>>> Secretary >>>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India who were in the waiting list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

Hi Yohann, Thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. So, to summarize your mail, WMIN president got written invitation to speak in the informal meeting of chairpersons during Wikimania and WMIN officially requested CIS-A2K to fund him to attend the meeting without depriving any Wikimedian in waiting list for scholarship and CIS-A2K funded him to attend the entire Wikimania. Right? So, according to WMIN, this was a valid request from WMIN to CIS-A2K, I presume, as you are defending about what WMIN did. Assuming good faith, I am believing all your words. Still, I don't understand, why only 1 volunteer in the waiting list attended the conference and next 2 in the queue were not funded. I am not talking about Jayanta Nath and Aliva Sahoo, they both declined, I am talking about the next 2 people in the queue. Also, can you please share the letter of invitation, so that we know, who sent the letter and everything becomes transparent. By the way, I never said, chairpersons meeting was any random meeting, I said it was informal meeting, like stewards meeting, asian meeting etc. Informal means which is not related to Wikimania official program, there is a difference between random and informal. Echoing Manavpreet's valid query, can a Wikimedia volunteer with no attachment to the chapter get similar special treatment of getting full funds to attend Wikimania even if he/she doesn't get a Wikimania scholarship but his/her presentation is selected and/or he/she gets official invitation to speak in an informal meeting during Wikimania. Now, from your answer, I hope there is no doubt about that volunteers will receive such special treatment, because after all, the chapter does not distinguish between board members and the volunteer community and we have a prior example of WMIN president to cite. That is a great news for the volunteer community as it opens up new opportunity for the communities to participate in the conference. Alas! this we didn't knew earlier, we could have sent more Wikimedians this year, but it's ok, the community will be informed for next year and I hope, more such requests will be sent to WMIN and CIS-A2K from volunteers in future. Of course, we will keep everything open and transparent, unlike this time. Thanks, Bodhisattwa On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 12:42 Yohann Thomas, &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Dear Bodhi > > I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request > you to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do > many times. > > Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my > phone.. Since I'm traveling.. > > I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my > best to clear all doubts. > > 1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to > simply attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers. > You can find this on the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by notes > which carry a description. The ‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he was > a speaker. This is generally a very long topic, on which Wikimedia > Affiliates intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of time. This > theme would be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons Meetup > as well, as mentioned on the Meta. > > If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India > 2016, where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us > deliberated on various topics quite extensively) , several community > members who had not applied for the scholarship but had later approached > CIS-A2K for the same were awarded appropriately. > > CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision. > > In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community > without having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India would > also like to place on record, that it could have initiated the process of > informing on its own. Wikimedia India would like to put on record, in times > to come not only it would inform the community but also engage with its > community members on decision making for such exercises. > > 2) Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation to > attend the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The above > said invitation was shown to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel > assistance. > > *I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the > Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18*. He had attended Wikimedia > Conference 2018 & in it had participated in the movement strategy > discussion. It was during the movement strategy discussion that he received > the invitation. > > 3) The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members > in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the > particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in > the movement. Chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit > to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on your part, > to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such > a scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments. > > 4) The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members > should be deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put > emphasis that during its grant tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide two > sponsorship to its community members & we value the joy, which a volunteer > gets, when he is informed that, he is going to Wikimania. > > However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have > repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk on > conflict resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships > amongst them, the chapter approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing > the chapter board members > > 5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board members > and its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board members > are unpaid volunteers, similar to its community members, who give their > time & effort towards the community. > > To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of > engaging the community in a more effective way in the future. > > Regards, > Yohann Thomas > Secretary > Wikimedia India > > P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our > friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what > binds us :) > > -------- > On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < > bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Hi Yohann, >> >> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. >> >> >> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a >> single word. >> >> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to >> make it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective. >> >> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to >> the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal >> meetups, there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, >> if one steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the >> meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. >> Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not >> eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can >> you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship >> would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, >> everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups >> in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year. >> >> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of >> chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a >> proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was >> invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't >> attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you >> provide the documentation of his invitation? >> >> [1] >> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018 >> >> [2] >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018 >> >> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already >> there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went >> there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation >> is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the >> informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they >> considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so? >> >> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. >> Whereas Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for >> volunteers. So, sending an affiliate representative with the donation >> money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and >> supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can >> you please explain that? >> >> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend >> the conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because >> Rahul is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer? >> >> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, >> I hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take >> it personally. >> >> Waiting for your detailed reply, >> >> Bodhisattwa >> >> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) >>> >>> Hi Bodhi >>> >>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, >>> I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions. >>> >>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier >>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & >>> then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the >>> Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link >>> below. >>> >>> >>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >>> >>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund >>> its trip & they accepted his proposal. // >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Yohann Thomas >>> Secretary >>> Wikimedia India >>> >>> >>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Yohann, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your mail. >>>> >>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that >>>> many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the >>>> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the >>>> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary >>>> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any >>>> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in >>>> that conference, he can represent the affiliate. >>>> >>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya >>>> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on >>>> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge >>>> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where >>>> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members >>>> unfit to attend such meeting? >>>> >>>> Waiting for your reply, >>>> Bodhisattwa >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members >>>> >>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia >>>> India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion >>>> on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid >>>> volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, >>>> there was a delay in drafting a reply. >>>> >>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run >>>> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards >>>> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user >>>> groups) in their volunteer roles. >>>> >>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't >>>> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is >>>> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. >>>> >>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different >>>> roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional >>>> roles to attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers >>>> around the world. >>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier >>>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & >>>> then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's >>>> meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >>>> >>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund >>>> its trip & they accepted his proposal. >>>> >>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want >>>> to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in >>>> relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter >>>> before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on >>>> different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory >>>> hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter >>>> is going through a difficult time. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Yohann Thomas >>>> Secretary >>>> Wikimedia India >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, < >>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in >>>>> Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question >>>>> is why was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from >>>>> India who were in the waiting list. >>>>> >>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The >>>>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and >>>>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the >>>>> meeting. >>>>> >>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>> >>>> >>>>

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:04 PM Asaf Bartov &lt;abartov(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: Perhaps also helpful would be to hear some response from Mr. Deshmukh himself. Rahul, I think the concerns raised here at least merit your attention, and it's been two weeks. I encourage you to show up and discuss the concerns -- ideally, with a forthright description of what did and didn't happen around your travel to Wikimania, and with a forward-looking perspective of what might change to prevent such concerns in the future. Thank you. A. > On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 7:06 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi Yohann, > > As I and Satdeep requested, it would be great if you share the invitation letter with all of us, so that we can know who invited WMIN president to attend the meeting. > > Thanks, > Bodhisattwa > > >> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 14:58 Bodhisattwa Mandal, &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> Hi Yohann, >> >> Thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. >> >> So, to summarize your mail, WMIN president got written invitation to speak in the informal meeting of chairpersons during Wikimania and WMIN officially requested CIS-A2K to fund him to attend the meeting without depriving any Wikimedian in waiting list for scholarship and CIS-A2K funded him to attend the entire Wikimania. Right? So, according to WMIN, this was a valid request from WMIN to CIS-A2K, I presume, as you are defending about what WMIN did. >> >> Assuming good faith, I am believing all your words. Still, I don't understand, why only 1 volunteer in the waiting list attended the conference and next 2 in the queue were not funded. I am not talking about Jayanta Nath and Aliva Sahoo, they both declined, I am talking about the next 2 people in the queue. >> >> Also, can you please share the letter of invitation, so that we know, who sent the letter and everything becomes transparent. >> >> By the way, I never said, chairpersons meeting was any random meeting, I said it was informal meeting, like stewards meeting, asian meeting etc. Informal means which is not related to Wikimania official program, there is a difference between random and informal. >> >> Echoing Manavpreet's valid query, can a Wikimedia volunteer with no attachment to the chapter get similar special treatment of getting full funds to attend Wikimania even if he/she doesn't get a Wikimania scholarship but his/her presentation is selected and/or he/she gets official invitation to speak in an informal meeting during Wikimania. Now, from your answer, I hope there is no doubt about that volunteers will receive such special treatment, because after all, the chapter does not distinguish between board members and the volunteer community and we have a prior example of WMIN president to cite. That is a great news for the volunteer community as it opens up new opportunity for the communities to participate in the conference. Alas! this we didn't knew earlier, we could have sent more Wikimedians this year, but it's ok, the community will be informed for next year and I hope, more such requests will be sent to WMIN and CIS-A2K from volunteers in future. Of course, we will keep everything open and transparent, unlike this time. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Bodhisattwa >> >> >> >> >>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 12:42 Yohann Thomas, &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> Dear Bodhi >>> >>> I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request you to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do many times. >>> >>> Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my phone.. Since I'm traveling.. >>> >>> I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my best to clear all doubts. >>> >>> 1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to simply attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers. You can find this on the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by notes which carry a description. The ‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he was a speaker. This is generally a very long topic, on which Wikimedia Affiliates intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of time. This theme would be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons Meetup as well, as mentioned on the Meta. >>> >>> If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India 2016, where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us deliberated on various topics quite extensively) , several community members who had not applied for the scholarship but had later approached CIS-A2K for the same were awarded appropriately. >>> >>> CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision. >>> >>> In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community without having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India would also like to place on record, that it could have initiated the process of informing on its own. Wikimedia India would like to put on record, in times to come not only it would inform the community but also engage with its community members on decision making for such exercises. >>> >>> 2) Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation to attend the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The above said invitation was shown to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel assistance. >>> >>> I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18. He had attended Wikimedia Conference 2018 & in it had participated in the movement strategy discussion. It was during the movement strategy discussion that he received the invitation. >>> >>> 3) The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in the movement. Chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on your part, to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such a scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments. >>> >>> 4) The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members should be deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put emphasis that during its grant tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide two sponsorship to its community members & we value the joy, which a volunteer gets, when he is informed that, he is going to Wikimania. >>> >>> However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk on conflict resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships amongst them, the chapter approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing the chapter board members >>> >>> 5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board members and its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board members are unpaid volunteers, similar to its community members, who give their time & effort towards the community. >>> >>> To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of engaging the community in a more effective way in the future. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Yohann Thomas >>> Secretary >>> Wikimedia India >>> >>> P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what binds us :) >>> >>> -------- >>>> On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal, &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> Hi Yohann, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. >>>> >>>> >>>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single word. >>>> >>>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective. >>>> >>>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups, there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year. >>>> >>>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide the documentation of his invitation? >>>> >>>> [1] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018 >>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018 >>>> >>>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so? >>>> >>>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So, sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain that? >>>> >>>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer? >>>> >>>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it personally. >>>> >>>> Waiting for your detailed reply, >>>> >>>> Bodhisattwa >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule) >>>>> >>>>> Hi Bodhi >>>>> >>>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions. >>>>> >>>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>>> >>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >>>>> >>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. // >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>> Secretary >>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> Hi Yohann, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your mail. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in that conference, he can represent the affiliate. >>>>>> >>>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members unfit to attend such meeting? >>>>>> >>>>>> Waiting for your reply, >>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" &lt;yohannvt(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members >>>>>> >>>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply. >>>>>> >>>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer roles. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA. >>>>>> >>>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world. >>>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2… >>>>>> >>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its trip & they accepted his proposal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going through a difficult time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Yohann Thomas >>>>>> Secretary >>>>>> Wikimedia India >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India who were in the waiting list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Bodhisattwa >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org

Just a technical clarification - Asaf copied Rahul in his first emai so he must have received the email. I have copied Rahul again. In worst case scenario (if he is not there in the mailing list), others from the chapter board would have informed him. It’s very hard to believe that the discussion has gone so far without Rahul not being aware Also, it’s important for movement partner reps to be on mailing lists of their own country.

Sorry, I don’t find the argument — that Rahul hasn’t replied back because he isn’t there in the mailing list — a strong one.

*Dear all,* *I am extremely sorry to inform you that my younger cousin brother passed away last Friday from severe medical complications. He was just 38 and had been hospitalised for several weeks in critical stage. * *Being engrossed in the family issue I was not able to reply the thread for which I am extremely sorry.* *Regarding the issue as discussed in the thread I had requested for sponsorship with all needful information from external funding agency CIS, and CIS agreed to it. Wikimedia India did not spend any fund from its account. * *However this discussion will be helpful for Wikimedia India while disseminating WMIN’s funds in future. * *In case someone wants any other information in this regard I would request community members to personally email me.* *Thanks* *Rahul Deshmukh* On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar < sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < > psubhashish(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Just a technical clarification - Asaf copied Rahul in his first emai >> so he must have received the email. I have copied Rahul again. In worst >> case scenario (if he is not there in the mailing list), others from the >> chapter board would have informed him. It’s very hard to believe that the >> discussion has gone so far without Rahul not being aware Also, it’s >> important for movement partner reps to be on mailing lists of their own >> country. >> > > My bad. Haven't noticed Rahul is also marked in the mails. > > >> >> Sorry, I don’t find the argument — that Rahul hasn’t replied back >> because he isn’t there in the mailing list — a strong one. >> > > Completely agree that he should reply. > > Regards > -Sudhanwa > > > > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > > _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

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Hi Rahul, It's very sad to hear about your loss. I totally understand how difficult it must have been for you and rest of your family. Thanks a lot responding to this thread. I understand your request to personally email you but there are many unanswered questions such as information about the inviting organization, reporting etc. in this thread and it would be better if you can answer all the questions one by one in one email on this thread itself. Let me know if you need any help in collecting all the questions in one email. I am available to help you. Otherwise, just go through the whole thread (which will provide you with enough context as well). I agree with you that this discussion will help WMIN and the larger wikimedia community as well. It will also help us ensure more transparency in our processes. Looking forward to hear from you! Thank you once again for taking out some time to reply here. I believe you must not be fully available yet. So, take your time and respond whenever you can in the coming weeks. Best Satdeep On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:09 PM Rahul Deshmukh < rahuldeshmukh101(a)wikimedia.in&gt; wrote: > *Dear all,* > > *I am extremely sorry to inform you that my younger cousin brother > passed away last Friday from severe medical complications. He was just 38 > and had been hospitalised for several weeks in critical stage. * > > *Being engrossed in the family issue I was not able to reply the > thread for which I am extremely sorry.* > > *Regarding the issue as discussed in the thread I had requested for > sponsorship with all needful information from external funding agency CIS, > and CIS agreed to it. Wikimedia India did not spend any fund from its > account. * > > *However this discussion will be helpful for Wikimedia India while > disseminating WMIN’s funds in future. * > > *In case someone wants any other information in this regard I would > request community members to personally email me.* > > *Thanks* > > *Rahul Deshmukh* > > > > > On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar < > sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < >> psubhashish(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Just a technical clarification - Asaf copied Rahul in his first emai >>> so he must have received the email. I have copied Rahul again. In worst >>> case scenario (if he is not there in the mailing list), others from the >>> chapter board would have informed him. It’s very hard to believe that the >>> discussion has gone so far without Rahul not being aware Also, it’s >>> important for movement partner reps to be on mailing lists of their own >>> country. >>> >> >> My bad. Haven't noticed Rahul is also marked in the mails. >> >> >>> >>> Sorry, I don’t find the argument — that Rahul hasn’t replied back >>> because he isn’t there in the mailing list — a strong one. >>> >> >> Completely agree that he should reply. >> >> Regards >> -Sudhanwa >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

<Just a random observation> Dear Abhinav, I feel you have been overly enthusiastic in responding to the mails in this thread. I clearly don't find *anything* personal and offensive in Satdeep's email. That was a totally uncalled for attack on him. It is indeed true that Rahul must answer a few questions raised in this thread *himself*. I strongly suggest that we let Rahul address all the concerns himself in this thread once and for all. I don't expect your reply to this mail and hope you don't too. It's not necessary. Thanks Srikar On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 10:19 PM Abhinav srivastava < abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Comrade Satdeep, > > Respect one's personal privacy. You can approach CIS-A2K or Mr > Deshmukh and WMIN and know who invited. Rest, report and documentation has > already been shared. You can also write on the discussion page on Meta > where report has been shared and find out, if you really want an > individual's name public. I am not convinced why an international > volunteers name need to be called. > > You are not even an elected member at Affcom, if my memory serves me > correctly. You did not hold any work experience which was written as > mandatory for the office you are holding. I am not sure if you shared any > report for the Hindi contractual job. You want to discuss everything about > you on a personal mail. > > Why the difference? > > Abhinav > > > > On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 9:35 PM Satdeep Gill, &lt;satdeepgill(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Hi Rahul, >> >> It's very sad to hear about your loss. I totally understand how >> difficult it must have been for you and rest of your family. >> >> Thanks a lot responding to this thread. I understand your request to >> personally email you but there are many unanswered questions such as >> information about the inviting organization, reporting etc. in this thread >> and it would be better if you can answer all the questions one by one in >> one email on this thread itself. >> >> Let me know if you need any help in collecting all the questions in >> one email. I am available to help you. Otherwise, just go through the whole >> thread (which will provide you with enough context as well). >> >> I agree with you that this discussion will help WMIN and the larger >> wikimedia community as well. It will also help us ensure more transparency >> in our processes. >> >> Looking forward to hear from you! Thank you once again for taking out >> some time to reply here. I believe you must not be fully available yet. So, >> take your time and respond whenever you can in the coming weeks. >> >> Best >> Satdeep >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:09 PM Rahul Deshmukh < >> rahuldeshmukh101(a)wikimedia.in&gt; wrote: >> >>> *Dear all,* >>> >>> *I am extremely sorry to inform you that my younger cousin brother >>> passed away last Friday from severe medical complications. He was just 38 >>> and had been hospitalised for several weeks in critical stage. * >>> >>> *Being engrossed in the family issue I was not able to reply the >>> thread for which I am extremely sorry.* >>> >>> *Regarding the issue as discussed in the thread I had requested for >>> sponsorship with all needful information from external funding agency CIS, >>> and CIS agreed to it. Wikimedia India did not spend any fund from its >>> account. * >>> >>> *However this discussion will be helpful for Wikimedia India while >>> disseminating WMIN’s funds in future. * >>> >>> *In case someone wants any other information in this regard I would >>> request community members to personally email me.* >>> >>> *Thanks* >>> >>> *Rahul Deshmukh* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar < >>> sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < >>>> psubhashish(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> Just a technical clarification - Asaf copied Rahul in his first >>>>> emai so he must have received the email. I have copied Rahul again. In >>>>> worst case scenario (if he is not there in the mailing list), others from >>>>> the chapter board would have informed him. It’s very hard to believe that >>>>> the discussion has gone so far without Rahul not being aware Also, it’s >>>>> important for movement partner reps to be on mailing lists of their own >>>>> country. >>>>> >>>> >>>> My bad. Haven't noticed Rahul is also marked in the mails. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, I don’t find the argument — that Rahul hasn’t replied back >>>>> because he isn’t there in the mailing list — a strong one. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Completely agree that he should reply. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> -Sudhanwa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaindia-l mailing list > Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l > _______________________________________________ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l

Thank You Asaf Bartov for writing back! On Fri 14 Sep, 2018, 3:33 PM Asaf Bartov, &lt;abartov(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: > Wikimedia India is an Indian organization, and the Wikimedia > Foundation does not have a say in its internal governance. It does, of > course, have great *influence*, insofar as it is historically its biggest > funder, and in that it can revoke its recognition as a Wikimedia > affiliate. I state this just for clarity, so that no one is confused about > WMF's role in this discussion. This is a matter for Wikimedia India and > the communities in India which it exists to serve, and not a WMF matter. > > However, since you ask me directly, Abhinav, yes, I think this public > inquiry (which was brought up respectfully and patiently, and only became > shrill because of *your* ad hominem responses) is perfectly acceptable, and > an office bearer's accountability is a duty that cannot be argued away by > invoking "privacy". Rahul's travel was not private, but made *as* an office > bearer, and there can be no privacy concern about it. > > I agree with Srikar: your repeated tactic of attempting to discredit > the people who raised concerns is inappropriate, aggressive, uncollegial, > unhelpful, and for those not convinced of your good faith, also probably > suggesting an attempt to cover something up or change the subject by any > means necessary. > > Now, *I myself* trust there is no reason to cover anything up. As I > already said earlier in this thread, if a mistake was made, it can be > openly admitted; in my experience Wikimedians are exceptionally open and > forgiving when faced with honest admission of error or bad judgment. And if > no mistake was made, then clarifications can be offered and understanding > and trust regained. > > Rahul has now explained the circumstances of his non-responsiveness, > and people have expressed understanding and patience, while declining his > suggestion that this should be discussed privately. Rahul now can take the > time he needs to explain his actions to the community, which is the > constituency he is to serve. > > Cheers, > > A. > > On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 20:44 Abhinav srivastava &lt;abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> >> Perhaps it would be advisable to hear from Mr Asaf Bartov and if we >> can throw some light. >> >> Whether best practices call for taking name publicly or should the >> concerned persons approach CIS and WMIN and get the details. >> >> Abhinav >> On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Abhinav srivastava < >> abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> It is necessary my friend. Name game business is no sign of >>> maturity. Rest, report has already been shared. >>> >>> Affcom member who is selected and not elected showing biases >>> concerns me. This chapter only made him a featured wikimedians and assisted >>> him and his friends. His friend has also acknowledged the help on this >>> thread when EC members paid from their pocket to support him. He still >>> hasn't finished the report but we don't do sensationalism. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Equipment_Lending_and_Community_Support/Report/201… >>> >>> Post Script : Just a general though based on today morning >>> newspapers. India has become a hub of online trolling where one asks the >>> other to respond. I am happy they are restricted to social media and not us >>> here. >>> >>> I personally respect you for your work on en Wikipedia and also >>> helping the chapter. I will not reply if you feel so. Suggestion taken. >>> >>> Abhinav >>> >>> >>> On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 10:34 PM Srikar Kashyap Pulipaka, < >>> srikar.kashyap(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> <Just a random observation> >>>> >>>> Dear Abhinav, >>>> >>>> I feel you have been overly enthusiastic in responding to the mails >>>> in this thread. I clearly don't find *anything* personal and offensive in >>>> Satdeep's email. That was a totally uncalled for attack on him. It is >>>> indeed true that Rahul must answer a few questions raised in this thread >>>> *himself*. I strongly suggest that we let Rahul address all the concerns >>>> himself in this thread once and for all. I don't expect your reply to this >>>> mail and hope you don't too. It's not necessary. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Srikar >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 10:19 PM Abhinav srivastava < >>>> abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> Comrade Satdeep, >>>>> >>>>> Respect one's personal privacy. You can approach CIS-A2K or Mr >>>>> Deshmukh and WMIN and know who invited. Rest, report and documentation has >>>>> already been shared. You can also write on the discussion page on Meta >>>>> where report has been shared and find out, if you really want an >>>>> individual's name public. I am not convinced why an international >>>>> volunteers name need to be called. >>>>> >>>>> You are not even an elected member at Affcom, if my memory serves >>>>> me correctly. You did not hold any work experience which was written as >>>>> mandatory for the office you are holding. I am not sure if you shared any >>>>> report for the Hindi contractual job. You want to discuss everything about >>>>> you on a personal mail. >>>>> >>>>> Why the difference? >>>>> >>>>> Abhinav >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 9:35 PM Satdeep Gill, &lt;satdeepgill(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Rahul, >>>>>> >>>>>> It's very sad to hear about your loss. I totally understand how >>>>>> difficult it must have been for you and rest of your family. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks a lot responding to this thread. I understand your request >>>>>> to personally email you but there are many unanswered questions such as >>>>>> information about the inviting organization, reporting etc. in this thread >>>>>> and it would be better if you can answer all the questions one by one in >>>>>> one email on this thread itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if you need any help in collecting all the questions >>>>>> in one email. I am available to help you. Otherwise, just go through the >>>>>> whole thread (which will provide you with enough context as well). >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with you that this discussion will help WMIN and the >>>>>> larger wikimedia community as well. It will also help us ensure more >>>>>> transparency in our processes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Looking forward to hear from you! Thank you once again for taking >>>>>> out some time to reply here. I believe you must not be fully available yet. >>>>>> So, take your time and respond whenever you can in the coming weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> Satdeep >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:09 PM Rahul Deshmukh < >>>>>> rahuldeshmukh101(a)wikimedia.in&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> *Dear all,* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I am extremely sorry to inform you that my younger cousin >>>>>>> brother passed away last Friday from severe medical complications. He was >>>>>>> just 38 and had been hospitalised for several weeks in critical stage. * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Being engrossed in the family issue I was not able to reply the >>>>>>> thread for which I am extremely sorry.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Regarding the issue as discussed in the thread I had requested >>>>>>> for sponsorship with all needful information from external funding agency >>>>>>> CIS, and CIS agreed to it. Wikimedia India did not spend any fund from its >>>>>>> account. * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *However this discussion will be helpful for Wikimedia India >>>>>>> while disseminating WMIN’s funds in future. * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *In case someone wants any other information in this regard I >>>>>>> would request community members to personally email me.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Thanks* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Rahul Deshmukh* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar < >>>>>>> sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Subhashish Panigrahi < >>>>>>>> psubhashish(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just a technical clarification - Asaf copied Rahul in his >>>>>>>>> first emai so he must have received the email. I have copied Rahul again. >>>>>>>>> In worst case scenario (if he is not there in the mailing list), others >>>>>>>>> from the chapter board would have informed him. It’s very hard to believe >>>>>>>>> that the discussion has gone so far without Rahul not being aware Also, >>>>>>>>> it’s important for movement partner reps to be on mailing lists of their >>>>>>>>> own country. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My bad. Haven't noticed Rahul is also marked in the mails. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry, I don’t find the argument — that Rahul hasn’t replied >>>>>>>>> back because he isn’t there in the mailing list — a strong one. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Completely agree that he should reply. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> -Sudhanwa >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l >>>> >>> _______________________________________________