Answer to Manavpreet's question to why Wikimedia India Chapter is not taking initiatives to bring the communities together or to take the movement ahead as much as CIS-A2K - WikimediaIndia-l

6 Aug 2018

DISCLAIMER: My following email is being sent as a volunteer and community
member & not as a board member of Wikimedia India.

Dear Manavpreet & other community members

I will try my best to answer this question using comparative analysis, why
this is happening & will be very informative for you & others.. Who have
this query..  & i obviously would want other community members to chip in,
in case u miss something out.

*CIS-A2K*

*Employees : *7 (full time & part time)
[I would also like to mention that for administrative work of any
organization like Financial audit, bookkeeping & meeting statutory
obligations, these 7 team members are not involved & to perform those
duties & the team of finance & administration team CIS is involved.So, we
can say total. Of
7+4=11 employees]
(Reference : https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Team
https://cis-india.org/about/people/our-team)

*Funds received from **from WMF for the year 2017-18* : 180,000 ISD
(1,20,00,000 INR)
(Reference :
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_recommendations/2016-2017_ro…
)

Note:CIS receives funds from many other donors, but we are talking here
specifically of CIS-A2K team, whose annual plan is funded by the APG

*Wikimedia India* (WMIN)
*Employees : 0*

Board members:7
 (All Board members are unpaid volunteers who have their own professional
lives apart from running the chapter)
[I would also like to mention that all these board members are also
involved in administrative work of the organization like Financial audit,
bookkeeping & meeting statutory obligations & WMIN has no special staff for
this]

(Reference : http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Executive_Committee_Members)

*Funds received from WMF for the year 2017-18 :* 0 INR
(I must mention that Board members have applied for Rapid grants from WMF
to organise workshops & events)

Now, why hasn't Wikimedia India not received funds from WMF & the problems
pertaining to that has already been discussed in previous mails & community
members, who are curious, can look up the India mailing list archives, but
inspite of all adversities, Wikimedia India has a very active board who are
managing with whatever little resources the chapter has, using their time &
sometimes even their own money to organise events.

Manav, I somewhat agree with your point that the chapter is not taking as
many initiatives as much as CIS-A2K, to take the movement ahead, & yes to
some point, there is a big disconnect between the community & the chapter.
But, I see an opportunity here for you & many others who see this problem,
and can be very vital to bridge this disconnect & be part of Wikimedia
India on an active basis.

Now Im sure, you must be thinking , that you are a part of Punjabi User
group, that I'm doing well in my user group, why would i want be part of
the chapter.... Well i would say that you can be part of a national
identity.. Fix the system & take the chapter ahead, as a binding force
between the user groups of India.

I therefore request you & all others to be part of Wikimedia India on an
active basis. Personally, I feel that the Chapter, in entity, truly
represents what it means to be a Wikimedian & it is like every Wikimedian
around the world, who put in its time & resources to spread the sum of
knowledge.

Regards,
Yohann

------

On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 16:54 Dr. Manavpreet Kaur, &lt;dr.manavpreetkaur(a)gmail.com&gt;
wrote:

...
  Hi Asaf, Wikimedia India community members and CIS A2K
Team,

 I am sorry for intervening in this whole discussion but I feel the
 discussion is deviating from the primary concern as we have received
 another mail where a number of concerns have been raised in response to the
 primary issue raised by Bodhi. My subscription was faulty and thanks to
 Sailesh who fixed it and I got a digest of emails. From what I've learned
 through the emails, Wikimedia India representatives are usually sent to
 attend the annual wiki gatherings like Wikimedia Conference and this time
 it was Wikimania. I am sorry to state that we (community) have never been
 approached by anyone from the Chapter to discuss issues, events, Training
 or to offer some assistance.  We have only one point of contact for all our
 issues and plans and that is CIS A2K Team. When Wikimedia India Chapter is
 not taking initiatives to bring the communities together or to take the
 movement ahead, then what is the purpose of their representatives attending
 these events, what do they have to impart to other wikimedians there?  and
 how are they using the learnings in progressing the movement?
 Can someone please clearly address these questions and then we can discuss
 the other issues raised in the different thread.

 Regards,
 Manavpreet Kaur

 On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 3:42 PM, Amritasya Putra <
 iamamritasyaputra(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

  Why doesn’t my email reach this list? I have been
a member for, like
 three years.

 On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 at 10:00 AM, Asaf Bartov &lt;abartov(a)wikimedia.org&gt;
 wrote:

  Certainly, we can wait. But please understand I
did not assert WMIN (or
 anyone) needs to apologize. Please reread and you'll find I posed it in a
 conditional, as *one* possible outcome of resolving Bodhisattwa's concern.
 I also described another possible scenario.

     A.

 On Aug 3, 2018 06:21, "Abhinav srivastava" &lt;abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

 Hello Asaf,

 In consent with my last mail on the thread, please be assured, no
 discussion whatsoever will take place until WMIN replies to the concerns,
 the community takes its time to question, inspect and interrogate the
 matter. Yes, all other issues will be raised on a separate thread and in
 good spirit only after this matter is resolved. As Subhashish pointed out,
 the issue is not about one person or an institution but bettering the
 process. That is essentially the reason they had been brought up.

 Asaf, It is always nice to hear from you. You have always followed the
 Indian community closely and helped it in whatever way. We all appreciate
 that.  I would look forward to hearing about the better methodological
 processes of debates and discussions on resolving community matter. This
 would also help us in the future course. The Indian community is
 progressing in resolving its disputes in a peaceful and coherent manner and
 we wish to learn more of this.

 In continuity with my second paragraph, it would be great if you guide
 us on this. This would make the community inclusive and self-sustaining. I
 am not very happy that when the matter is sub-judice in the people's court,
 you holding WMF office, is talking about on ways WMIN can apologize. To
 re-iterate, provide us with methodological solutions and leave the
 community to decide.

 Also, I am not sure since you holding WMF office should advise about
 distractions.concerning the second point clearly deals with conflicts in
 Wikimedia Foundation policy. Of course, the platform could be a reason and
 for that, we will make sure we do not jump across topics. In fact, when we
 move ahead on those issues (only after resolving the principal problem) I
 would encourage you to be a participant (representing WMF). There are few
 essentially questions concerning few community members regarding WMF
 policies which I may share with you personally, whatever you find
 appropriate can be further asked on the community mailing list.

 At last, I have spoken to different EC members. Two EC members have also
 written to me stating that they will reply about WMIN stand. They have
 assured me that they will reply as soon as possible. As a past EC member, I
 would like to tell, finalizing a WMIN stand takes some time since EC
 members need to discuss, deliberate and then provide to their consent. As
 you all are aware unlike CIS-A2K or WMF, Wikimedia India is a voluntary
 organization, EC has his/her own personal life (own office work etc), hence
 at times, it takes some time. However, a reply will follow-up very shortly.

 To sum up, no more discussions please, let's stick on the principal
 query, please.

 Abhinav

 On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 2:33 AM Asaf Bartov &lt;abartov(a)wikimedia.org&gt;
 wrote:

  Folks,

 As an outside observer, may I encourage everyone to try to keep this
 one thread about its one, original topic?  Abhinav, I found your responses
 defensive and distracting -- listing other issues and other groups about
 which concerns can be raised is a very poor response to *this* concern
 raised on this thread.  By all means, raise those concerns if you want to
 pursue them (rather than merely use them as distraction on this thread),
 *in a separate thread*.

 I encourage the WMIN EC, which is the body accountable to its
 membership and to the broader communities in India, to address
 Bodhisattwa's concern directly and politely, as befits an organization
 aiming to be representative of the entire movement in India.  *Please*
 don't respond with bluster, nor with [[whataboutism]].  If there was some
 poor governance or inappropriate decision-making involved here, just own up
 to it, apologize[1], and commit to doing better.  Everybody would
 appreciate you for doing the right thing.

 If the appearance Bodhisattwa's concern responds to is *incorrect*, by
 all means, calmly respond with the facts as they are and demonstrate to the
 community that there is nothing to be concerned about.  Also reflect on how
 that appearance was created despite everything being okay, and what can,
 and should, be done to prevent such appearances in the future. Thinking
 about this, and sharing your conclusions, would also, I dare say, be
 welcomed by the community on this mailing list.

 I look forward to this matter resolving peacefully one way or another,
 but please, let us stick to the substance of *this* thread on this thread,
 and let us be fair and honest and avoid manipulative arguments and
 insinuations.

 Warmly,

     Asaf

 [1] may I humble offer an essay I once wrote on the power of apologies
 for our movement? it is here:

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/So_you%27ve_made_a_mistake_and_it%27s_public...

 On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 3:01 PM Abhinav srivastava &lt;abhinav619(a)gmail.com&gt;
 wrote:

> Hello Bodhisattwa,
>
> The first line of the mail which at 12:02 by Indian Standard Time, you
> stated, "I understand you are felling bad with my tone....I am sorry" .
>
> Apologies for getting this statement wrong, If I have.
>
> I would say, let us first address the point 1 which concerns response
> from WMIN. Other things can be put on *hold* and discussed,
> subsequently. I hope you would be in consent with this.
>
> I have received your mail concerning your Wikimania trip and
> allegations. I would like to re-iterate, neither then nor today, Wikimedia
> India pays any attention to those allegations. To my understanding (since I
> am not EC) Wikimedia India continues to have full faith in you.
>
> Rest assured, please be cautious, you are sending a little too many
> emails. I understand at times such issues happen but try and address them
> together. This would otherwise lead to spamming.
>
> Abhinav
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 5:15 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Abhinav,
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.       Now that Bodhisattwa has acknowledged on his inappropriate
>>> tone and it can be believed he would be a caution for future onwards and
>>> since the issue is in public domain, I would urge Wikimedia India to
>>> respond on this.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry missed this part,
>>
>> Where have I acknowledged that my tone was inappropriate? I only said
>> that, if you feel that the tone was not approprate, then I am sorry. To me,
>> my tone and my question are absolutely ok. Along with many others, I have
>> noticed a discrepancy and asked about the reason it in open mailing list,
>> so that everything remains transparent. I had to name the person involved,
>> otherwise the question seemed to be vague and meaningless. Everything I
>> said in my first e-mail was hard fact, almost everyone from India
>> participating in the conference knew about it and had the same question in
>> mind. If my (and others) question is invalid, then why there is no response
>> from WMIN, refuting everything after 6 days?
>>
>> So, instead of diverting the topic, if we stick to and discuss the
>> topic in which the thread was initiated, that would be great.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
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