Hello Abhinav,
Can the EC directly address the question regarding the lack of trust
among members of the community as far as the current composition of the EC
is concerned, and how the EC intends to resolve this? If there are no
changes in the composition of the EC, I do not see how the situation can be
resolved, especially when several members of the community have raised
concerns regarding the conduct of EC collectively as well as members of the
EC individually on this thread as well as others.
Looking forward to hearing from all of you at the earliest.
Yours,
Anirudh
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 8:34 AM Abhinav srivastava <abhinav619(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear All,
Wikimedia India (WMIN) always appreciates the community members who
step forward to support the India Chapter and have provided the confidence
for a national mandate. WMIN is a volunteer-run organisation and it is a
privilege to receive the support from the volunteers on this problem. WMIN
also appreciates the community’s effort in putting the Chapter much more
accountable each and every day. WMIN always invites even dissent under a
friendly space and understands them to be a process to learn and improve
upon.
Now, categorically listing the ACTION ITEM into two
1.
Legal Compliance :
a.) Foreign Funding : Several community members at
different platform such as Mailing List, Village Pump, Meta Discussion page
have expressed their concerns and also provided advice for a probable
solution. Several members have also expressed their intent to communicate
directly with the Affiliations Committee and Wikimedia Foundation (WMF).
WMIN has been advocating for a public trail and would be happy to wait for
Affcom and WMF to reply on Meta and Mailing List. Subsequent to that any
possible idea of having a conference call can also be considered with
participation from community members.
b.) White Paper on Chapter’s Compliance : As several
statements have been floated such as WMIN not being a registered
organisation, receiving funding from WMF as a necessary criteria etc. WMIN
with the assistance of the community members, those who have come forward
and those who may wish to do so now, would prepare a White paper to reflect
the Chapter’s present standing. The paper would also discuss Chapter’s
standing with its external partners and why User Group is not a valid
proposed proposition.
1.
Governance :
a.) Improving Community Conversations : WMIN understands that with no
funding, it has limited opportunity in interacting with community members.
As a probable solution, inviting community members to record their
grievance on a diversified range of public platforms say Meta Discussion
page, Community Hall at Chapter’s Wiki, Mailing Lists and most importantly
on Village Pump in one’s native language. We are already familiar with such
medium, however suggestions for Chapter have remained relatively very less.
Right at this hour, we invite community members put their suggestions,
feedback and also grievance if any and how to better improve.
Earlier this year, WMIN had used similar platforms to record
suggestions for Project Tiger [1] and Membership [2]. Even if WMIN does not
address the concerns such public statements can promote accountability and
most importantly promote transparency.
b.) Bylaw Changes : Similar to Russia Chapter it may be relevant to
have User Group representation at the Chapter [3]. This may build a network
grid for the volunteer affiliates. There maybe many more suggestions, for
instance on record there has been a suggestion to have some editing history
as a necessary criteria for voting [4]. It is important to have healthy and
productive discussions on such issues at different public platforms as
mentioned above.Such discussions would strengthen the notion, ‘The
will of the executive committee is the will of the Indian community’.
Looking forward to hearing from all of you.
नमस्कार
Abhinav
[1]
http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Project_Tiger/Community_Inputs
[2]
http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Expectations_from_India_chapter/Membership
[3]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-February/091818.html
[4]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2019-April/013991.ht…
On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 21:40, Abhinav srivastava <abhinav619(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear Anirudh And All,
>
> *Abhinav - I would also like to hear a collective response from the EC
> regarding this situation and how they aim to work with the Foundation and
> the community to correct it. *
>
> An action plan will be provided very shortly.
>
> Abhinav
>
>
> On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 13:28, Anirudh S. Bhati <anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Ashwin,
>>
>> I believe there are valid concerns regarding the current composition
>> of the EC as well, but I do not think revocation of WMIN's license as a
>> Wikimedia chapter is a correct response, especially not based on the
>> rationale provided by Chris/WMF in their email above. If the Foundation
>> shares these concerns with you, then perhaps a better resolution would be
>> to seek re-organization of the Executive Committee, thereby inducting
>> members who have the trust of the Indian community, rather than retaliating
>> in a manner that seems to negate years of work done by Wikimedia volunteers
>> associated with the chapter (and employees such as Ravishankar) who have
>> spent countless hours building the chapter over the years.
>>
>> Abhinav - I would also like to hear a collective response from the EC
>> regarding this situation and how they aim to work with the Foundation and
>> the community to correct it.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Anirudh
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 9:13 PM Ashwin Baindur <
>> ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I made a mistake, in that I had forgotten this thread was started
>>> not by a Chapter member but by some one else, so I withdraw my remark about
>>> the title of the thread and apologize to Chris for the remark.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 7:11 PM Abhinav srivastava <
>>> abhinav619(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Ashwin Sir,
>>>>
>>>> Our only point is if there are a set of complaints then put them in
>>>> Public domain. Let the community read and review it for themselves. We
>>>> never intend to say we have been subject of injustice. All we have been
>>>> saying abide to 'Transparency'. Community is good enough to read
and
>>>> understand it for themselves. Similar to Chapter not been registered
there
>>>> are many more claims but we are never asking anyone to buy our opinion.
>>>> Again, we are only asking to come transparent.
>>>>
>>>> if you believe our Reports are not "zero-budget", then we are
open
>>>> to any kind of audit and investigation. Community can decide and let us
>>>> know. You yourself would also be welcome to audit.
>>>>
>>>> This mail thread is not for CIS attribution grabbing or WMIN
>>>> President. I have asked CIS to release information on attribution
grabbing
>>>> in public domain on which CIS Director has responded they are
comfortable
>>>> with it and on Wikimania 2018, Chapter has its inability to answer on
Why
>>>> the next person in waiting was not awarded the scholarship. It was a CIS
>>>> grant and Chapter has already said that they would make sure to engage
with
>>>> the community from future, on their own and not be dependent on the
>>>> grantee.
>>>>
>>>> I cannot reply to anything written in bad-faith. However, if you
>>>> believe we have been unethical I WISH TO OFFER AN APOLOGY
unconditionally.
>>>>
>>>> I am afraid I can do anything else for you, but to say, you dissent
>>>> voice is also welcome under WMIN's free speech objectives.
>>>>
>>>> Abhinav
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 at 18:51, Ashwin Baindur <
>>>> ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The AffCom has a number of complaints against the Chapter. The
>>>>> implication is that the EC has been intentionally or unintentionally
remiss
>>>>> in meeting some requirements specified by them.
>>>>>
>>>>> EC is trying to fixate the topic under public attention as an
>>>>> injustice on the Chapter solely due to its inability to fundraise
and
>>>>> refusal to take I to account the "zero budget" activities.
>>>>>
>>>>> What EC is doing is attempting to get the India community to
>>>>> overlook its lack of communication, unethical behaviour, lack of
openness
>>>>> of the EC as if that doesn't matter. There is absolutely no
mention on the
>>>>> group as to how the EC should mend it's ways and what is the way
out of
>>>>> this situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I for one, am quite unhappy over this situation. The EC member in
>>>>> charge of communication who was voluble about the CIS claiming credit
for
>>>>> an event still hasn't spoken about why the Head of the EC
hasn't given a
>>>>> reasonable and valid explanation to all the queries on the mailing
list
>>>>> raised about the head of EC and his association with South African
>>>>> Wikimania.
>>>>>
>>>>> This thread has also been titled "Support for our communities
>>>>> across India" which is a falsehood. What is being shamelessly
solicited is
>>>>> support for Chapter in it's present troubles, not support for
our
>>>>> communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are we expected to rally around the chapter just because it is
>>>>> "Indian"? I think not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Morals, behaviour, right and wrong do not change and cannot be
>>>>> done away with just because the perpetrators are Indian.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is the demonstrated lack of ethics and Wikipedia culture that
>>>>> worries me, not the fact that Chapter can't raise funds, nor the
fact that
>>>>> it will be derecognised by AffCom till it meets the various
conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 2:45 PM Abhinav srivastava <
>>>>> abhinav619(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Ashwin Sir,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With all due respect you are deviating from the topic. In my
>>>>>> different capacities with different affiliates, I have been
bestowed with
>>>>>> the responsibility for communications. Please understand EC is
>>>>>> *collectively* responsible to its members, your statement is
undermining
>>>>>> its office.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are concerned about other EC members not active, I would
>>>>>> recommend you to check the reports <
>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/Reports/Wikimedia_India#…gt;.
>>>>>> All have some contribution or the other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I recommend you not to deviate form the principal issue.
>>>>>> Funding is not the only issue, earlier Foundation was mentioning
about
>>>>>> Chapter not being a registered organisation and subsequent to
that much
>>>>>> more which is not authentic <
>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_India#Affiliations_Committee…
>>>>>> >.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please don't punish me by putting such statements, I am
involved
>>>>>> in several User Groups and could have easily put some hat on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abhinav
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 20 Jul 2019 at 14:17, Ashwin Baindur <
>>>>>> ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the funding issue the only issue that is the problem? It
>>>>>>> appears that there are other issues as well. The EC members
except for
>>>>>>> Abhinav, who is a recent inductee, are silent. They need to
speak up to
>>>>>>> give their view on all the issues concerned, especially as
they were in the
>>>>>>> EC during the period of non-compliance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 7:51 AM Subhashish Panigrahi <
>>>>>>> psubhashish(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I feel that there is a lot of negativity which comes from
some
>>>>>>>> genuine frustrations but also impulsive action. As the
situation is fairly
>>>>>>>> complex, it would be useful to stick to the facts only. A
lot of new
>>>>>>>> subscribers to this list who might not have context will
simply be affected
>>>>>>>> adversely if this continues. My note below is not to
undermine the efforts
>>>>>>>> or genuine interests of anyone but to share some clarity
around compliance
>>>>>>>> based on some similar experiences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When Anirudh’s response gives a good sense of FCRA, I
just
>>>>>>>> wanted to reiterate the fact that receiving FCRA approval
has a 50:50
>>>>>>>> chance and it is a three-year long process. Clean
records, full-time staff
>>>>>>>> and a long list high-impact activities can still lead to
a decline if one
>>>>>>>> doesn’t have the right kind of connections. However, an
NGO can apply for a
>>>>>>>> prior permission for a one time foreign funding for a
standalone activity
>>>>>>>> and the chances of receiving that funding is higher as
compared to a
>>>>>>>> regular FCRA approval. Coming from a donor’s perspective
as I was dealing
>>>>>>>> with the same issue of funding Indian affiliates for an
organization that I
>>>>>>>> worked for, I believe, FCRA should not be compliance
criterion for any
>>>>>>>> Indian NGO. Many NGOs that have a much longer history and
have done a lot
>>>>>>>> of paid work (and hence in large volumes) with bigger
teams (and especially
>>>>>>>> lawyers on the payroll) have failed to acquire FCRA just
because of their
>>>>>>>> activities and publications that might have openly
criticized a government.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Furthermore, a mission-aligned NGO with FCRA approval
can
>>>>>>>> always help another smaller NGO as a fiscal sponsor till
the time the
>>>>>>>> latter builds a portfolio with some local grants. This
has to be done very
>>>>>>>> carefully so that the funding doesn’t look like a
circumvention of FCRA
>>>>>>>> meaning that the entire activities will need to be
organized/co-organized
>>>>>>>> by the fiscal sponsor. In real terms, no matter who is
involved in the
>>>>>>>> activity, all the work, vendor payments, and even the
branding must include
>>>>>>>> the fiscal sponsor. It becomes the said fiscal sponsor’s
activity funded by
>>>>>>>> a foreign donor and supported by volunteers or paid
contractors from other
>>>>>>>> collectives/NGOs. Considering the hardship (or more of
chances of a
>>>>>>>> ballgame) this is probably a model a donor organization
like WMF can
>>>>>>>> explore so that individuals or collectives don’t have to
pay taxes while
>>>>>>>> receiving any funding. This arrangement might have a
compliance cost factor
>>>>>>>> and availability of staff as the fiscal sponsor has to
pay its staff and
>>>>>>>> should have the bandwidth to manage the additional work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another model that IEEE and many others have explored is
>>>>>>>> allowing nonprofit (and even for-profit companies) to
become the grantee.
>>>>>>>> I’m not very sure of the tax exemption part but I believe
that a for-profit
>>>>>>>> company can only receive investments (and not grants) and
must pay tax.
>>>>>>>> That could be an extra expense but it’s much safer. The
actual work must be
>>>>>>>> reported as a work by this company just like the previous
situation. IMHO
>>>>>>>> foreign nonprofit donors should definitely have the
flexibility (that the
>>>>>>>> grantee profile can range from a not-for-profit society
or trust or company
>>>>>>>> to a for-profit company) for their Indian grantees
because it’s risky to
>>>>>>>> operate as an NGO in India since the last few years and
manage to get FCRA
>>>>>>>> approval at the same time while doing good work. When
Wikipedia is all
>>>>>>>> about open knowledge sharing in multiple languages,
issues related
>>>>>>>> map/border can work against a grantee and the law
enforcement agencies can
>>>>>>>> go behind them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My request to WMF and AffCom would be to reconsider
WMIN’s
>>>>>>>> situation with the lens of FCRA-related compliance issues
because FCRA as a
>>>>>>>> compliance factor could jeopardize any smaller Indian
NGO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subhashish
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 2:36 AM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar <
>>>>>>>> sudhanwa.com(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have replied on the thread on meta. Copying that
content here
>>>>>>>> for reference:
>>>>>>>> Anirudh has already mentioned most of the points I also
wanted
>>>>>>>> to say. (Check here:
>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2019-July/014215.html)
>>>>>>>> I will add a few more things here. WMF is very very keen
on
>>>>>>>> all kinds of legal compliance. The recent example is the
"Germany court
>>>>>>>> order". Surprisingly, possibly for the first time in
Wikipedia history, all
>>>>>>>> the relevent content was WIPED out from Wikipedia within
a day of the court
>>>>>>>> order where only one person was affected by the content.
Compared to that,
>>>>>>>> here in India, FCRA issue is affecting thousands of
organisations in a
>>>>>>>> serious way and AFFCOM is still not able to understand
the FCRA compliance
>>>>>>>> issue. (Maybe, compared to Indian languages, German
language is better
>>>>>>>> understood by concerned people!!)By the way, What was
the
>>>>>>>> support given by WMF/AFFCOM to WMIN in the FCRA matters?
Have they provided
>>>>>>>> any consultant or legal help to WMIN. Or even some high
level contacts in
>>>>>>>> the concerned Government office to put up our case
further.It
>>>>>>>> will also be interesting to know if by any chance, CIS
looses FCRA, (I
>>>>>>>> sincerely wish that does not happen anytime) AFFCOM/WMF
will remove their
>>>>>>>> affiliation? Read the WMF news article here:
>>>>>>>>
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/04/11/a-german-court-forced-us-to…
Indian
>>>>>>>> Wikipedian community is very very keen on expenditure,
especially wherever
>>>>>>>> they feel that some wrong expenditure is made (not just
by Indian
>>>>>>>> organisation but even when WMF money is spent) They
become very very
>>>>>>>> concerned about it and become very vocal. Mail thread
goes on for months
>>>>>>>> asking for justificaiton of such expenditure.(eg. check
here:
>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2018-July/013400.html)
>>>>>>>> Hardly anyone from WMF/AFFCOM comment on it. Compared to
that, when India
>>>>>>>> chapter is not spending any money and doing all zero
budget activities,
>>>>>>>> what could be the problem with it for the community or
AFFCOM or WMF.
>>>>>>>> Actually they should appriciate and should be happy about
saving lots of
>>>>>>>> money and still doing activities. The closure of India
chapter
>>>>>>>> topic comes up again and again and some lengthy
discussions happen on it. I
>>>>>>>> am referring to one such mail thread a few years back and
specificaly want
>>>>>>>> WMF people to read my comment that time in a reply to
Gerard Meijssen.
>>>>>>>> Please check it out here:
>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2014-September/01156… Now
>>>>>>>> that AFFCOM is showing so much concern about the India
activities, it will
>>>>>>>> be better if they can tell us (the stake holders in this-
Indian
>>>>>>>> Wikipedians, volunteers, current and past WMIN EC members
and general WMIN
>>>>>>>> members) the comparision of performance of affiliates in
India namely WMIN
>>>>>>>> and CIS-A2K. What is the expenditure on various
activities, paid staff etc
>>>>>>>> etc. And give us a clear understanding of where the real
objection is. I
>>>>>>>> suppose this should be with reference to the contract
between WMF and WMIN.
>>>>>>>> I read the contract document again some time back and
could hardly see any
>>>>>>>> possible serious violation of the contract that AFFCOM is
referring to.
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> -Sudhanwa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 5:13 PM Anirudh S. Bhati <
>>>>>>>> anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For now I am not going to get into other issues, but
would
>>>>>>>>> like to get clarification on the following:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 6:20 PM Chris Koerner <
>>>>>>>>> ckoerner(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia India was first recognized as a chapter
in 2011. In
>>>>>>>>>> 2015, it
>>>>>>>>>> experienced difficulties meeting chapter
agreement
>>>>>>>>>> obligations.
>>>>>>>>>> Working with the Affiliations Committee and the
Foundation,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> chapter developed a plan of action and returned
to good
>>>>>>>>>> standing by
>>>>>>>>>> 2017. However, between 2017 and 2019
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *the chapter was unable to secure a license to
act as a
>>>>>>>>>> fiduciary organization, and is not currently
legally registered as a
>>>>>>>>>> charity in India to accept funding from the
Foundation*. The
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation and Affiliations Committee both hope
that
>>>>>>>>>> this licensing and registration can be secured,
and that the
>>>>>>>>>> chapter
>>>>>>>>>> will again be eligible for recognition.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, the Wikimedia Chapter (Wikimedia India) *is*
registered
>>>>>>>>> as a charitable society under the Karnataka Societies
Registration Act.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it *is* a fiduciary organization acting in
public interest. I
>>>>>>>>> would like to hear a clarification on your claims
above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Further, my understanding is that the Chapter has
been unable
>>>>>>>>> to renew/secure its permissions under the Foreign
Contribution (Regulation)
>>>>>>>>> Act, which prevents it from receiving funds from
foreign sources, including
>>>>>>>>> the Foundation. This is not a situation unique to
Wikimedia India, as more
>>>>>>>>> than 20,000 NGOs nationally faced cancellations of
their licenses last year
>>>>>>>>> due to reasons that have largely to do with politics
rather than compliance
>>>>>>>>> related issues.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
https://www.firstpost.com/india/fcra-licences-of-20000-ngos-cancelled-act-b…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the inability of Wikimedia india to secure these
>>>>>>>>> permissions is one of the primary reasons for
de-recognition, as a founding
>>>>>>>>> member of Wikimedia India and as someone who is
largely an external
>>>>>>>>> observer, it appears to me that the Foundation is
choosing to punish the
>>>>>>>>> chapter for not having the political clout to retain
its license. For most
>>>>>>>>> of its existence, the Wikimedia Chapter has been a
volunteer-run body with
>>>>>>>>> limited expertise in public policy. Can you please
clarify whether the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation has extended support to the Chapter in
form of, for example,
>>>>>>>>> contracting a government relations specialists to
help renew/secure their
>>>>>>>>> FCRA license?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to hearing from you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>>>> Anirudh
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing
preferences
>>>>>>>>> visit
>>>>>>>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
>>>>>>>> web:
www.sudhanwa.com blog:
www.sudhanwa.in
>>>>>>>> Twitter: sudhanwa Check on FB, Linkedin for more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences
visit
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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