Did any one notice in Pune Meetup "Class"room Photographs Front benchers were probably were well prepared with their jackets and all accessories, may be they knew in advance "Class"room is going to be too cold without accessories, See folded hand body language of some of back benchers seems not adequately prepared for Pune Winter
From: "wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org" <wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Tue, 14 December, 2010 8:23:35 PM
Subject: Wikimediaindia-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17
Send Wikimediaindia-l mailing list submissions to
wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Wikimediaindia-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (sankarshan)
2. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (Pradeep Mohandas)
3. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (Ashwin Baindur)
4. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (Srikeit)
5. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (Pradeep Mohandas)
6. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune (Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:56:29 +0530
From: sankarshan <foss.mailinglists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimaqGuxQNEdsX2nvMuVqdpd-hd7qFgbEDWhL83a@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Pradeep Mohandas
<pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the write-up. Why are these meetings happening in classrooms? The
> Mumbai one also happened in a lecture hall complete with green board and
> chalks! There was even a rickety unbalanced table up front that the speakers
> unconsciously wanted to lean against!
> I see that Pune has at least advanced to white boards and pens in the class
> room selected. :)
If someone from SICSR is on the list they may be able to put a much
definitive answer.
My guess is that arranging for the auditorium or, even an informal
gathering place at a reasonably quick notice is difficult to do. There
aren't many places at Pune where you can get together, sit around and
then break off into smaller circles of discussion. Especially at that
hour of the day.
That said, the "classroom" did encourage the students (the newbie
contributors) to speak up in familiar surroundings. So, it actually
worked out fairly well although Erik and Danese ended up doing a bit
of back and forth on moderating and queue-ing up the questions.
--
sankarshan mukhopadhyay
<http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:58:14 +0530
From: Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=oN8rv0RHvQrvAk95iL4+0o2SecRfHMkeSsq+g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
That was meant to be humorous but I guess no one got the point :).
Nothing serious.
Pradeep
On 14 December 2010 22:56, sankarshan <foss.mailinglists@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Pradeep Mohandas
> <pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the write-up. Why are these meetings happening in classrooms?
> The
> > Mumbai one also happened in a lecture hall complete with green board and
> > chalks! There was even a rickety unbalanced table up front that the
> speakers
> > unconsciously wanted to lean against!
> > I see that Pune has at least advanced to white boards and pens in the
> class
> > room selected. :)
>
> If someone from SICSR is on the list they may be able to put a much
> definitive answer.
>
> My guess is that arranging for the auditorium or, even an informal
> gathering place at a reasonably quick notice is difficult to do. There
> aren't many places at Pune where you can get together, sit around and
> then break off into smaller circles of discussion. Especially at that
> hour of the day.
>
> That said, the "classroom" did encourage the students (the newbie
> contributors) to speak up in familiar surroundings. So, it actually
> worked out fairly well although Erik and Danese ended up doing a bit
> of back and forth on moderating and queue-ing up the questions.
>
> --
> sankarshan mukhopadhyay
> <http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:01:26 +0530
From: Ashwin Baindur <ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=08c3XFNzMRnVt2YVTtpW9615BfeNCZB4Zifj6@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
*/* The blog post, more of personal jottings really, was posted along with
the photos <
http://sankarshan.posterous.com/notes-from-the-pune-wikipedia-meetup>
cf. <http://identi.ca/notice/60354579> sankarshan mukhopadhyay */*
Thanks Sankarshan, wish I was there, if nothing at least for the swag ;-).
Actually I depend on the Wikimedia list and WikiProject India/Portal for
news of meetups. I'm sure there are others like me. Could all who have
blogged/posted/placed images about meetups please reflect them on this list
besides other social media such as FB, twitter, identi.ca etc.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ashwin Baindur <ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks Tinu, Sankarshan, for images of Pune Meetup 3.
>
> For those who attended, could we have a small brief (or even better a
> blog post) about what transpired for those who missed the meet?
>
> As of now, this is a problem. Meets dont get reported. People forget
> that the written report of what transpired is absolutely necessary for
> the community. A few uncaptioned photos or newspaper clippings are of
> no use.
>
> This is contrary to the Wikipedia spirit of free flow of information.
> Inadequate reporting of a Wikipedia meetup is a contradiction of
> sorts.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:05:51 +0530
From: Srikeit <srikeit.tadepalli12@simc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimLrkrnNY4whv0HnhMdKaySygqirFgR2Qoc88_h@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I tweeted a bit for today's techmeet in Pune with the meet hashtag #WPMPN4.
http://twitter.com/search?q=%23wpmpn4
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Ashwin Baindur
<ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>wrote:
> */* The blog post, more of personal jottings really, was posted along with
>
> the photos <
> http://sankarshan.posterous.com/notes-from-the-pune-wikipedia-meetup>
> cf. <http://identi.ca/notice/60354579> sankarshan mukhopadhyay */*
>
> Thanks Sankarshan, wish I was there, if nothing at least for the swag ;-).
>
> Actually I depend on the Wikimedia list and WikiProject India/Portal for
> news of meetups. I'm sure there are others like me. Could all who have
> blogged/posted/placed images about meetups please reflect them on this list
> besides other social media such as FB, twitter, identi.ca etc.
>
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Ashwin Baindur
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ashwin Baindur <ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Thanks Tinu, Sankarshan, for images of Pune Meetup 3.
> >
> > For those who attended, could we have a small brief (or even better a
> > blog post) about what transpired for those who missed the meet?
> >
> > As of now, this is a problem. Meets dont get reported. People forget
> > that the written report of what transpired is absolutely necessary for
> > the community. A few uncaptioned photos or newspaper clippings are of
> > no use.
> >
> > This is contrary to the Wikipedia spirit of free flow of information.
> > Inadequate reporting of a Wikipedia meetup is a contradiction of
> > sorts.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Ashwin Baindur
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
>
Cheers
--
Srikeit Tadepalli
Communication Management Trainee
MBA-Advertising 2010-2012
Online Branding and Marketing Cell
Symbiosis Institute of Media and Communication, Pune
+91-9371160998
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:07:16 +0530
From: Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTin2nqeCuxRBDcFreA6jVZm9UdzP85HHMyBwt2D6@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Actually I depend on the Wikimedia list and WikiProject India/Portal for
> news of meetups. I'm sure there are others like me. Could all who have
> blogged/posted/placed images about meetups please reflect them on this list
> besides other social media such as FB, twitter, identi.ca etc.
>
Here's the non-techy view report on the Wikipedia Mumbai meetup on December
11 - http://www.parallelspirals.in/2010/12/wikipedia-mumbai-meetup-5/
Pictures - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mumbai_Meetup_Dec2010
I do hope that the other camera-persons in the group also share via
Wikimedia Commons.This was my first experience of uploading stuff on
Commons. Tinu Cherian did that for me the last time. I did want to try it
for myself this time. Learnt a bit more with each photo I uploaded and liked
it.
warm regards,
Pradeep
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 00:53:28 +0530 (IST)
From: Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia <mahitgar@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc: Marathi Wikipedia <mr-wiki@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <46832.32178.qm@web94804.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear All,
First of all thanks to Pune Open Source enthusiasts and Tech Marathi team and
Mr.Sudhanwa for their initiative and supporting WikiMeetup -3.Thanks to Erik
M?ller, Danese Cooper, Alolita Sharma,
Mr.Sankarshn liked your notes and photographs of 3rd Pune Meet Meet up , Since
Mr.Ashwin Baindur asked on your blog notes in Wikipedia Academy on 22octo at
the same place in Pune Mr.Nikhil of Tech Marathi supported me with a OHP ,Laptop
and net connection etc.
Of course hope Pune wikipedians taking own initiative and supporting further
regular Wiki meetups at Pune
Rgds
Mahitgar from Marathi Wikipedia
rom: "wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org"
<wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Tue, 14 December, 2010 6:18:11 PM
Subject: Wikimediaindia-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 16
Send Wikimediaindia-l mailing list submissions to
wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
wikimediaindia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
wikimediaindia-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Wikimediaindia-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fwd: [WikiX-l] W10: Communications Toolkit Phase I
(BalaSundaraRaman)
2. Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (Ashwin Baindur)
3. Re: Clarification Regarding Kiruba Shankar's Involvement
(praveenp)
4. Re: Fwd: [WikiX-l] W10: Communications Toolkit Phase I
(Arun Ramarathnam)
5. Wikipedia Wikimeetup1 @ Kolkata, Dec 2010 Photos
(CherianTinu Abraham)
6. Re: Clarification Regarding Kiruba Shankar's Involvement
(Arun Ramarathnam)
7. hi ! list (shirish ?????)
8. Re: Clarification Regarding Kiruba Shankar's Involvement
(praveenp)
9. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (sankarshan)
10. Re: Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos (Pradeep Mohandas)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 04:47:15 -0800 (PST)
From: BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [WikiX-l] W10: Communications
Toolkit Phase I
To: "wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org"
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, Arun Ram <arunram25@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <476722.7397.qm@web59904.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<p> Likely to be an early English Wikipedian from India. Should ask users
Arvindn, Hemanshu et al.</p>
<p>Arun, was Hemanshu editing before you started?</p>
<p>- Sundar</p>
<p>Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android</p>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:21:10 +0530
From: Ashwin Baindur <ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTim0=qYVfn0FO4nyNdoHgzSh7fM1MRWu+s91GmrC@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks Tinu, Sankarshan, for images of Pune Meetup 3.
For those who attended, could we have a small brief (or even better a
blog post) about what transpired for those who missed the meet?
As of now, this is a problem. Meets dont get reported. People forget
that the written report of what transpired is absolutely necessary for
the community. A few uncaptioned photos or newspaper clippings are of
no use.
This is contrary to the Wikipedia spirit of free flow of information.
Inadequate reporting of a Wikipedia meetup is a contradiction of
sorts.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:31:33 +0530
From: praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Clarification Regarding Kiruba
Shankar's Involvement
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID: <4D076AAD.1020500@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> Yours faithfully,
>
> Wikimedia India EC
>
BTW, Who are in EC ?
:-/
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:46:33 +0530
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: [WikiX-l] W10: Communications
Toolkit Phase I
To: BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse@yahoo.com>
Cc: "wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org"
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTiny8xb5ZcDntLmqfS11Y66n+N420C4xo3U95MoS@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, I do believe so.
regards
Arun
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:17 PM, BalaSundaraRaman <sundarbecse@yahoo.com>wrote:
> Likely to be an early English Wikipedian from India. Should ask users
> Arvindn, Hemanshu et al.
>
> Arun, was Hemanshu editing before you started?
>
> - Sundar
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:03:13 +0530
From: CherianTinu Abraham <tinucherian@gmail.com>
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia Wikimeetup1 @ Kolkata, Dec 2010
Photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinK8HQoKV06Hc994PswDhLi7jK9cOC8MssX0CUm@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Wikipedia Wikimeetup1 @ Kolkata, Dec 2010 Photos
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Kolkata_Meetup_Dec2010
There were around 18+ attendees for the first Wikimeetup @Kolkata . I would
like to express my sincere thanks to Jayanata Nath, Indranil Das Gupta &
Shiju Alex for all the efforts in putting things together for a successful
meetup, at one of the ancient cities of India. Special thanks to Bishakha
Datta & Achal Prabhala for all the encouragement & support in our efforts.
One of us will be sending a detailed report on the meetup soon.
Regards
Tinu Cherian
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:45:47 +0530
From: Arun Ramarathnam <arunram25@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Clarification Regarding Kiruba
Shankar's Involvement
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinhp4S=J50Hx5bOPcTKTKuub3djDkhDEPgHe2xT@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Praveen,
Please refer the MOA document published in Meta for details requested:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA-ChapComVer
I would also suggest you refer the India page for background information:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India>regards
Arun
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:31 PM, praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yours faithfully,
> >
> > Wikimedia India EC
> >
>
> BTW, Who are in EC ?
>
> :-/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 20:51:28 +0530
From: shirish ????? <shirishag75@gmail.com>
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] hi ! list
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikn=6VywxjUTriAx3_KPHWRFjh-KghXP_4wfL9T@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi all,
Wow! It was a hell of a day seeing and meeting people at Redhat's
office for wikipedia stuff.
Quite a bit to share but need couple of things. Fortunately or
unfortunately didn't have a camera so need photos to spice the post
up, a hashtag if there is already one or something please lemme know.
Whenever there are photos in the public domain of today's meet, one
can expect a post in few hours (barring sleep hours, of course) .
Unfortunately, unlike wikimedia not awake round-the-clock (citation :-
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/dec/131210-Erik-Moller-Wikipedia-Pune.htm)
:)
I may also do couple of follow-ups as there were lots of things
swirling in my head but there were neither the time or the space to do
it.
Frankly, came to know for the first time there are other Idiots (pun
on 3 Idiots please) like me who enjoy making a difference.
So wiki on :)
--
? ? ? ? ? Regards,
? ? ? ? ? Shirish Agarwal? ????? ???????
? My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3? 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:04:10 +0530
From: praveenp <me.praveen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Clarification Regarding Kiruba
Shankar's Involvement
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID: <4D079C82.4010306@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 07:45 PM, Arun Ramarathnam wrote:
> Praveen,
>
> Please refer the MOA document published in Meta for details requested:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India/MoA-ChapComVer
>
> I would also suggest you refer the India page for background information:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_India
>
> regards
> Arun
>
Thanks, but still unfortunately I cannot blame one Kiruba for self
promotion using Wikimedia foundation just because none of the WMIN
signatories' activities are clear to others (or atleast to me, may be my
wrong). You may know that there is a website for Wikimedia India chapter
(http://wikimedia.in/), so if possible, copy those pages to there (most
of the Indian wikimedians are not active in meta). Please add brief
notes about purpose, current activities (I saw some researchers,
consultants, etc) and future blueprints also in the website.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:39:55 +0530
From: sankarshan <foss.mailinglists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikLEQ3tzggFY9N0VcJvS9Zpg4maQDiQ-SoFOCxW@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ashwin Baindur
<ashwin.baindur@gmail.com> wrote:
> For those who attended, could we have a small brief (or even better a
> blog post) about what transpired for those who missed the meet?
The blog post, more of personal jottings really, was posted along with
the photos
<http://sankarshan.posterous.com/notes-from-the-pune-wikipedia-meetup>
cf. <http://identi.ca/notice/60354579>
--
sankarshan mukhopadhyay
<http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:48:09 +0530
From: Pradeep Mohandas <pradeep.mohandas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimeetup 3 Pune photos
To: wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinvUR1RjSFZ4KARMCLUHtMSyquvWqVJ7CyCaav4@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
Thanks for the write-up. Why are these meetings happening in classrooms? The
Mumbai one also happened in a lecture hall complete with green board and
chalks! There was even a rickety unbalanced table up front that the speakers
unconsciously wanted to lean against!
I see that Pune has at least advanced to white boards and pens in the class
room selected. :)
warm regards,
Pradeep
On 14 December 2010 22:39, sankarshan <foss.mailinglists@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ashwin Baindur
> <ashwin.baindur@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > For those who attended, could we have a small brief (or even better a
> > blog post) about what transpired for those who missed the meet?
>
> The blog post, more of personal jottings really, was posted along with
> the photos <
> http://sankarshan.posterous.com/notes-from-the-pune-wikipedia-meetup>
> cf. <http://identi.ca/notice/60354579>
>
>
> --
> sankarshan mukhopadhyay
> <http://sankarshan.randomink.org/blog>
>
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>
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