Hi Asaf,

Let me put everything aside and ask a few simple questions to you, as I see you as a representative of WMF here.

1. Why was WMIN denied the large portion of the grant requested and why do we have separate grant to a private organisation?

2. WMF have seen the results of previous funding to IP, which was a total disaster, why CIS was chosen and is still considered to carry out activities, even after refusing the grant for many of those tasks proposed by them (WMIN)?

3. When are you (WMF) going to stop funding CIS and any other private organisation (other than WMIN)?

I will appreciate straight, short and simple answers. If they could not be  answered in length of less than double of the length of question, please do not attempt.


On 18 Apr 2014 02:20, "Asaf Bartov" <abartov@wikimedia.org> wrote:
I will be responding to Ravi's further questions as time permits, probably only tomorrow. 

In the meantime, I protest against your behavior, Ansuman.  It is unacceptable.  Despite multiple past recurrences of this pattern as well as past apologies, here we are again -- you lash out with wild and inflated accusations, generalizations, and hearsay; when challenged to provide details and references, you gradually back down and often admit your original allegations were entirely unfounded; nevertheless, you do not apologize or retract your original statements (alternatively, you somehow manage to apologize (as you do below) even as you attack indisciminately).  This is precisely the behavior that had cost you my respect before, as you mentioned.

I am interested in having good faith conversations with any community member about our India strategy.  As you have seen, I have responded openly and honestly to Ravi's questions about our strategy, and those of you who have had some conversations with me before can attest I speak my mind and do not keep you guessing. 

I had done the same in response to your own questions previously (contrary to your assertion that I did not), but it quickly became clear you were far too bitter to be interested in actually discussing constructive ways forward.  For whatever reason (perhaps a personal stake?  is there some personal background you'd like to share with the community?  I think so.), you are far more interested in attacking CIS and/or WMF than you are in promoting the Wikimedia mission in India and in your region and community.

I will continue to engage with those members of the community interested in having a civil and fact-based conversation.  (I thank Pradeep, for example, for his calm contribution to the discussion (on-wiki, where I shall respond), even as he expresses strong crticism and skepticism of the entire engagement model.)

I encourage the rest of you reading this to take Ansuman's ranting with a large grain of salt.  Get the facts (as distinct from empty assertions) and judge for yourselves, by all means, or reserve judgment until you do.

Again, I will engage further on-wiki as soon as I'm able, but probably only tomorrow.


On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:10 AM, ansuman <ansumang@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Asaf. There are some more questions by Ravi, I'd like to see them answered.

Thanks Ravi for the detail analysis and questions. Few questions I've asked before but nobody cared to answer till now, now being answered.  :-) Which these paid employess didn't care to put up in two years is now being out!

I'm extremely dissppointed, nobody (not even WMF staffs) cared to tell the community these important things, which should have been disclosed much earlier in 2012. 
I've asked, raised my concerns several times at meta; cisa2k talk pages, vishnu's talk page, on this mailing list. But these paid employees didn't feel the necessity to answer them!! One time someone even gone out of context and talked about costing his respect but didn't feel the necessity to respond further and tell these things..

If only WMF's intent has been clear to us and there has been transparency in this project, I wouldn't have felt the necessity to blame cisa2k for their terrible mistakes and incometencies. 

If only i had known that WMF doesn't expect any real outcome but just want to see how it goes, then i would not have asked those questions being rude. You have wasted so much of my time!!

Even now I see no attempts to bring transparency. Clearly nobody cares!! 
WMF is also responsible for this lack of transparecy but they don't seem to care much.  

So far as per the ongoing discussion at proposal talk page, there is no transparency, it's not been disclosed yet who was involved when this project was approved! Few facts yet to be confirmed and questions to be answered.

Having said all these, let me tell you that my intention was clear, i didn't want to hurt anybody. I'm extremely sorry for the harsh tone. My apologies to all the CISA2K employees and especially to Vishnu. 

You guys don't listen to me still let me say:
The plans of CISA2K is getting broader, please focus on specific areas where you guys are capable. 

And about "No Outcome"; I mop at Odia Wikipedia and I regularly visit and keep track of edits there. CISA2K has created a lot of mess which need to be cleaned up.

And those fluctuation; ups and downs in graphs, we see them all the times, so please don't claim those are because of you and don't put up those stats in your reports and everywhere. Please make these plans and reports short and precise, so more users can read them and participate.

Jayanta also asked similar questions about stats there at proposal talk page. And i'm aware of that disclaimer, still it's wrong to claim like this. Please remove them. At least have some respect for the community and volunteers.  Thanks.


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    Asaf Bartov
    Wikimedia Foundation

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