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Today's Topics:

1. Re: WMF and CIS agreement (Hari Prasad Nadig)
2. Re: WMF and CIS agreement (Gautam John)
3. Re: WMF and CIS agreement (Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas)
4. Re: WMF and CIS agreement (Gautam John)
5. Re: WMF and CIS agreement (Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas)
6. Re: WMF and CIS agreement (Gautam John)
7. [CIS-A2K Announcement] MoU with Christ University, Bangalore
(Vishnu T)

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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 19:21:27 +0530
From: Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WMF and CIS agreement
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On 9 November 2013 13:58, Ravishankar <ravidreams@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> //Well, salaries upto 2 lakh _per month_ with additional allowances for
> expenses on domestic and international travel is pretty huge for India.
> Reading from
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF-A2K_Grant_Budget_and_Utilization_Sept12_-Feb13.pdf//
>
> So what? An employee working for the same BPO / software company in India
> gets paid less than his counterpart in US. Even offsetting the lifestyle
> and cost of living allowances, it becomes like mere outsourcing for cheap
> labour. Should WMF consider cost cutting and out source this work to some
> other country :) ? 2 lakh INR comes around 3000 USD which is a decent
> salary for a mid level employee in US. For a national program like CIS -
> A2K, salaries in this range is acceptable.
>

Ravi,

Do you think it is appropriate to compare Wikimedia Foundation or its
functioning in India to profit making companies and BPOs?

--
Hari Prasad Nadig
http://hpnadig.net
http://twitter.com/hpnadig
http://flickr.com/hpnadig
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 23:26:18 +0530
From: Gautam John <gautam@akshara.org.in>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WMF and CIS agreement
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On 9 November 2013 19:21, Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you think it is appropriate to compare Wikimedia Foundation or its
> functioning in India to profit making companies and BPOs?

Yes. The goals might be different but they both require qualified,
high quality people to make the goals happen. Paying a competitive
salary is one way to make that possible.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 19:08:50 +0100
From: Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas <prashanth.ns@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WMF and CIS agreement
Message-ID: <2902D8BF-BC9C-4ABC-BC16-0A3D3897F822@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Indeed, paying more salary is “one” way of making that possible.

To me, it is more than a technical decision. Going for (in my opinion) such a high salary reflects a “choice” by the decision-makers to adopt this particular way of achieving the goals. Now, this is for me in complete contrast to how the wikipedia movement itself works. For a community that is NOT built on achieving competitiveness and quality by paying money, why should the foundation “choose” to take that route to achieve the goals. I am certainly not arguing that the volunteerism should guide such strategic policy initiatives. But, certainly the choices made in the way these policy initiatives are structured should not in reverse affect the “culture” of contribution in the community. If at all, it should inspire it more. And paying this kind of salaries is certainly not in line with the way the community has been evolving.

Regards,
Prashanth
Disclaimer: My thoughts, although immediately following Gautam John’s response is not a reaction to his mail, although I begin with responding to a part of his email.

On 09-Nov-2013, at 6:56 pm, Gautam John <gautam@akshara.org.in> wrote:

> On 9 November 2013 19:21, Hari Prasad Nadig <hpnadig@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Do you think it is appropriate to compare Wikimedia Foundation or its
>> functioning in India to profit making companies and BPOs?
>
> Yes. The goals might be different but they both require qualified,
> high quality people to make the goals happen. Paying a competitive
> salary is one way to make that possible.
>
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 23:41:26 +0530
From: Gautam John <gautam@akshara.org.in>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WMF and CIS agreement
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On 9 November 2013 23:38, Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas
<prashanth.ns@gmail.com> wrote:

> contribution in the community. If at all, it should inspire it more. And
> paying this kind of salaries is certainly not in line with the way the
> community has been evolving.

In general, we seem to be fixated on the inputs. Measuring those is
kind of pointless, IMO. Why not measure the output and hold them
accountable to that? Secondly, to see if the output would have been
achieved without their intervention and whether the impact of the
output is important too.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 19:14:48 +0100
From: Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas <prashanth.ns@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WMF and CIS agreement
Message-ID: <0253AC3D-9A15-41B8-A418-3B41C1D3D38A@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Well. I agree with this. But, I think there is an additional argument, beyond accountability to outputs, which is the culture-maintaining spirit of the movement. I think there is something to be said of that.
On 09-Nov-2013, at 7:11 pm, Gautam John <gautam@akshara.org.in> wrote:

> Why not measure the output and hold them
> accountable to that? Secondly, to see if the output would have been
> achieved without their intervention and whether the impact of the
> output is important too.

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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 23:48:55 +0530
From: Gautam John <gautam@akshara.org.in>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] WMF and CIS agreement
Message-ID:
<CAMmJ7Ura7srTAYdBMho4Xp_he9L_XRh3hJgfK4zhdwLJvKj_rA@mail.gmail.com>
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On 9 November 2013 23:44, Prashanth Nuggehalli Srinivas
<prashanth.ns@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well. I agree with this. But, I think there is an additional argument,
> beyond accountability to outputs, which is the culture-maintaining spirit of
> the movement. I think there is something to be said of that.

I do agree with you on this. It's a fine line and a very delicate balance.

Thank you.

Best,

Gautam
________
http://www.akshara.org.in/

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2013 03:58:17 +0530
From: Vishnu T <visdaviva@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
<wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Cc: anil.pinto@christuniversity.in
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] [CIS-A2K Announcement] MoU with Christ
University, Bangalore
Message-ID:
<CAP_anTOpNdo7h8wyWye-SYoNvtEvQmrkLMrgSNQ743CFDDdKKQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Dear All,

I am delighted to inform you that CIS-A2K has signed an MoU with the
Christ University, Bangalore. As part of this MoU Christ University and
CIS-A2K will work together to introduce “Wikipedia in the Indian Under
Graduate Language Classroom” at Christ University, Bangalore.

The broad objective of this program is to instil the following skills in
the Under Graduate student using Indian language Wikipedias as part of the
Christ University pedagogy:

a) Writing Skills (ability to write in an objective fashion/NPOV);

b) digital information literacy skills;

c) ability to critically engage with a concept/theme; and

d) language proficiency skills

CIS-A2K will be doing a one hour orientation on Wikipedia and the program
to almost 1,600 students. As part of the orientation we will reach out to
about 800 students who have Hindi as a second language, 600 students who
have chosen Kannada as a second language, 150 Sanskrit students and about
40 Tamil students and 10 Urdu students. Post the orientation the students
will be given an option to do one out of the three continuous internal
assignments (CIA), as a group assignment, on an Indian language Wikipedia.
We are currently working on the design of this program and will soon share
a detailed FAQ for your feedback and inputs.

Christ University and CIS-A2K have also agreed to license all material
developed and produced under this partnership under CC-BY-SA 3.0.

Please join me in thanking Dr. Anil Pinto (Registrar, Christ University),
faculty of Christ University and our very own Vikram Vincent, who have
shown great leadership in building this partnership.

Best,

Vishnu
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