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Today's Topics:

   1. Edit-a-thon during Indian independence day/week (Tito Dutta)
   2. Re: Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh (Yohann Thomas)
   3. Re: Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh (Jayantilal Kothari)
   4. Re: Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh (Bodhisattwa Mandal)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 00:35:32 +0530
From: Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
        <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Edit-a-thon during Indian independence
        day/week
Message-ID:
        <CAEdAQ_gbt1piiBX7iKKG60sjd33vk=C7Xgmk7yzxVdzquEP9UA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello,
A couple of Indian communities have plan to conduct small edit-a-thons
during/around 15 August. As of now, I know about Marathi, Telugu, and
recently Hindi has added an event page. Today morning I was talking on
Wikidata India noticeboard on Wikidata label-a-thon.

Perhaps you may have a look:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Indian_Independence_Day_2018_edit-a-thon

Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 12:42:23 +0530
From: Yohann Thomas <yohannvt@gmail.com>
To: Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>
Cc: Wikimedia India Community list
        <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Message-ID:
        <CAGJ8y3M1b2reLEGjFMFHEEDkO3p_bCyH_FyEwUVkmXxFbEE34Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Bodhi

I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request you
to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do many
times.

Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my
phone.. Since I'm traveling..

I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my best
to clear all doubts.

1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to simply
attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers. You can
find this on the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by notes which
carry a description. The ‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he was a
speaker. This is generally a very long topic, on which Wikimedia Affiliates
intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of time. This theme would
be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons Meetup as well, as
mentioned on the Meta.

If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India 2016,
where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us deliberated on
various topics quite extensively) , several community members who had not
applied for the scholarship but had later approached CIS-A2K for the same
were awarded appropriately.

CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision.

In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community
without having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India would
also like to place on record, that it could have initiated the process of
informing on its own. Wikimedia India would like to put on record, in times
to come not only it would inform the community but also engage with its
community members on decision making for such exercises.

2)   Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation to
attend the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The above
said invitation was shown to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel
assistance.

*I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the
Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18*. He had attended Wikimedia Conference 2018
& in it had participated in the movement strategy discussion. It was during
the movement strategy discussion that he received the invitation.

3)    The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members
in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the
particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in
the movement. Chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit
to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on your part,
to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such
a scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments.

4)   The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members should be
deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put emphasis that
during its grant tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide two sponsorship to
its community members & we value the joy, which a volunteer gets, when he
is informed that, he is going to Wikimania.

However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have
repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk on
conflict resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships
amongst them, the chapter approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing
the chapter board members

5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board members and
its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board members are
unpaid volunteers, similar to its community members, who give their time &
effort towards the community.

To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of
engaging the community in a more effective way in the future.

Regards,
Yohann Thomas
Secretary
Wikimedia India

P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our
friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what
binds us :)

--------
On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Yohann,
>
> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
>
>
> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single
> word.
>
> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make
> it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
>
> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the
> main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups,
> there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one
> steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then
> he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same
> principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not
> eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can
> you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship
> would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true,
> everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups
> in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year.
>
> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of
> chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a
> proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was
> invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't
> attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide
> the documentation of his invitation?
>
> [1] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018
>
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018
>
> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already there
> were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went there
> with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not
> at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal
> meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they considered unfit
> or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?
>
> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas
> Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So,
> sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a
> Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the
> conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain
> that?
>
> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the
> conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul
> is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
>
> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I
> hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it
> personally.
>
> Waiting for your detailed reply,
>
> Bodhisattwa
>
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule)
>>
>> Hi Bodhi
>>
>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I
>> can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
>>
>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended
>> the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
>> subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's
>> meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>
>>
>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018
>>
>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
>> trip & they accepted his proposal. //
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Yohann Thomas
>> Secretary
>> Wikimedia India
>>
>>
>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your mail.
>>>
>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many
>>> participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the
>>> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the
>>> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary
>>> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any
>>> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in
>>> that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
>>>
>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya
>>> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on
>>> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge
>>> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where
>>> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members
>>> unfit to attend such meeting?
>>>
>>> Waiting for your reply,
>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members
>>>
>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India
>>> is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any
>>> topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers &
>>> have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a
>>> delay in drafting a reply.
>>>
>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run
>>> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards
>>> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user
>>> groups) in their volunteer roles.
>>>
>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't financially
>>> independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with
>>> regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
>>>
>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles in
>>> community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to
>>> attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around
>>> the world.
>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended
>>> the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
>>> subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting
>>> at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018
>>>
>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
>>> trip & they accepted his proposal.
>>>
>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to
>>> appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation
>>> to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his
>>> term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different
>>> issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I
>>> wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going
>>> through a difficult time.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Yohann Thomas
>>> Secretary
>>> Wikimedia India
>>>
>>> ----
>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape
>>>> Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why
>>>> was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India
>>>> who were in the waiting list.
>>>>
>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The
>>>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and
>>>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the
>>>> meeting.
>>>>
>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 13:37:14 +0530
From: Jayantilal Kothari <jayantilalkkd@gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia India Community list
        <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Message-ID:
        <CAM2AHeb-HPVPuK1yG83gbAJ4kcC0NMYy=ocU3e77KxUZu2uJgw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello,
I edit on Telugu Wikipedia & Wikidata. I generally only read and not write
on mails.
Why so much negativity taking place?
Earlier it was about reports. When reports are there the issue is about
meeting was not important. Let us is good faith assume that note has been
taken and transparency in future will be maintained.

Thanks,
జయంతిలాల్

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Yohann Thomas <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Bodhi
>
> I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request you
> to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do many
> times.
>
> Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my
> phone.. Since I'm traveling..
>
> I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my best
> to clear all doubts.
>
> 1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to
> simply attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers.
> You can find this on the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by notes
> which carry a description. The ‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he was
> a speaker. This is generally a very long topic, on which Wikimedia
> Affiliates intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of time. This
> theme would be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons Meetup
> as well, as mentioned on the Meta.
>
> If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India 2016,
> where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us deliberated on
> various topics quite extensively) , several community members who had not
> applied for the scholarship but had later approached CIS-A2K for the same
> were awarded appropriately.
>
> CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision.
>
> In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community
> without having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India would
> also like to place on record, that it could have initiated the process of
> informing on its own. Wikimedia India would like to put on record, in times
> to come not only it would inform the community but also engage with its
> community members on decision making for such exercises.
>
> 2)   Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation to
> attend the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The above
> said invitation was shown to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel
> assistance.
>
> *I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the
> Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18*. He had attended Wikimedia Conference
> 2018 & in it had participated in the movement strategy discussion. It was
> during the movement strategy discussion that he received the invitation.
>
> 3)    The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members
> in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the
> particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in
> the movement. Chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit
> to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on your part,
> to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such
> a scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments.
>
> 4)   The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members should be
> deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put emphasis that
> during its grant tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide two sponsorship to
> its community members & we value the joy, which a volunteer gets, when he
> is informed that, he is going to Wikimania.
>
> However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have
> repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk on
> conflict resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships
> amongst them, the chapter approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing
> the chapter board members
>
> 5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board members and
> its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board members are
> unpaid volunteers, similar to its community members, who give their time &
> effort towards the community.
>
> To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of
> engaging the community in a more effective way in the future.
>
> Regards,
> Yohann Thomas
> Secretary
> Wikimedia India
>
> P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our
> friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what
> binds us :)
>
> --------
> On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Yohann,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
>>
>>
>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single
>> word.
>>
>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make
>> it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
>>
>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the
>> main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups,
>> there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one
>> steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then
>> he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same
>> principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not
>> eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can
>> you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship
>> would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true,
>> everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups
>> in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year.
>>
>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of
>> chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a
>> proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was
>> invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't
>> attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide
>> the documentation of his invitation?
>>
>> [1] https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_
>> April_20%2C_2018
>>
>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_
>> Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018
>>
>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already
>> there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went
>> there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation
>> is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the
>> informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they
>> considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?
>>
>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas
>> Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So,
>> sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a
>> Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the
>> conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain
>> that?
>>
>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the
>> conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul
>> is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
>>
>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I
>> hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it
>> personally.
>>
>> Waiting for your detailed reply,
>>
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule)
>>>
>>> Hi Bodhi
>>>
>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I
>>> can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
>>>
>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
>>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India &
>>> then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the
>>> Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link
>>> below.
>>>
>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_
>>> meeting_July_20,_2018
>>>
>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
>>> trip & they accepted his proposal. //
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Yohann Thomas
>>> Secretary
>>> Wikimedia India
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your mail.
>>>>
>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many
>>>> participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the
>>>> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the
>>>> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary
>>>> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any
>>>> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in
>>>> that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
>>>>
>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya
>>>> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on
>>>> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge
>>>> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where
>>>> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members
>>>> unfit to attend such meeting?
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for your reply,
>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members
>>>>
>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India
>>>> is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any
>>>> topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers &
>>>> have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a
>>>> delay in drafting a reply.
>>>>
>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run
>>>> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards
>>>> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user
>>>> groups) in their volunteer roles.
>>>>
>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't
>>>> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is
>>>> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles
>>>> in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to
>>>> attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around
>>>> the world.
>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended
>>>> the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
>>>> subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting
>>>> at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_
>>>> meeting_July_20,_2018
>>>>
>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
>>>> trip & they accepted his proposal.
>>>>
>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to
>>>> appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation
>>>> to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his
>>>> term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different
>>>> issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I
>>>> wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going
>>>> through a difficult time.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Yohann Thomas
>>>> Secretary
>>>> Wikimedia India
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
>>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape
>>>>> Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why
>>>>> was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India
>>>>> who were in the waiting list.
>>>>>
>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The
>>>>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and
>>>>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the
>>>>> meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 14:58:23 +0530
From: Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>
To: Yohann Thomas <yohannvt@gmail.com>
Cc: wikimediaindia-l <wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimania tour of Rahul Desmukh
Message-ID:
        <CAHyrfgb=4HHJyjivCX2ndD8Ffwq0vKhabzgMShFG6ezTQPwz8A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Yohann,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Much appreciated.

So, to summarize your mail, WMIN president got written invitation to speak
in the informal meeting of chairpersons during Wikimania and WMIN
officially requested CIS-A2K to fund him to attend the meeting without
depriving any Wikimedian in waiting list for scholarship and CIS-A2K funded
him to attend the entire Wikimania. Right? So, according to WMIN, this was
a valid request from WMIN to CIS-A2K, I presume, as you are defending about
what WMIN did.

Assuming good faith, I am believing all your words. Still, I don't
understand, why only 1 volunteer in the waiting list attended the
conference and next 2 in the queue were not funded. I am not talking about
Jayanta Nath and Aliva Sahoo, they both declined, I am talking about the
next 2 people in the queue.

Also, can you please share the letter of invitation, so that we know, who
sent the letter and everything becomes transparent.

By the way, I never said, chairpersons meeting was any random meeting, I
said it was informal meeting, like stewards meeting, asian meeting etc.
Informal means which is not related to Wikimania official program, there is
a difference between random and informal.

Echoing Manavpreet's valid query, can a Wikimedia volunteer with no
attachment to the chapter get similar special treatment of getting full
funds to attend Wikimania even if he/she doesn't get a Wikimania
scholarship but his/her presentation is selected and/or he/she gets
official invitation to speak in an informal meeting during Wikimania. Now,
from your answer, I hope there is no doubt about that volunteers will
receive such special treatment, because after all, the chapter does not
distinguish between board members and the volunteer community and we have a
prior example of WMIN president to cite. That is a great news for the
volunteer community as it opens up new opportunity for the communities to
participate in the conference. Alas! this we didn't knew earlier, we could
have sent more Wikimedians this year, but it's ok, the community will be
informed for next year and I hope, more such requests will be sent to WMIN
and CIS-A2K from volunteers in future. Of course, we will keep everything
open and transparent, unlike this time.


Thanks,
Bodhisattwa




On Wed, 8 Aug 2018, 12:42 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Bodhi
>
> I still feel, you haven't read my email word to word. I would request you
> to go by the 24 hr email rule (if not more).. which I personally do many
> times.
>
> Pardon my grammar & also my line to line reply, as I'm relying on my
> phone.. Since I'm traveling..
>
> I will again try to explain point wise (where ever possible) & try my best
> to clear all doubts.
>
> 1) Mr Rahul Deshmukh, did not visit Wikimania, on scholarship, or to
> simply attend a random meeting. He was invited to be one of the speakers.
> You can find this on the agenda of it, during Wikimania.. followed by notes
> which carry a description. The ‘Conflict Resolution’ theme on which he was
> a speaker. This is generally a very long topic, on which Wikimedia
> Affiliates intends to discuss and deliberate over a period of time. This
> theme would be subsequently carried forward in upcoming Chairpersons Meetup
> as well, as mentioned on the Meta.
>
> If your memory serves you right.. During the Wiki Conference India 2016,
> where you were also one of the organizers (& the both of us deliberated on
> various topics quite extensively) , several community members who had not
> applied for the scholarship but had later approached CIS-A2K for the same
> were awarded appropriately.
>
> CIS-A2K had later informed the community about this decision.
>
> In good faith, we assumed that, CIS-A2K did not inform the community
> without having any specific interest in the exercise. Wikimedia India would
> also like to place on record, that it could have initiated the process of
> informing on its own. Wikimedia India would like to put on record, in times
> to come not only it would inform the community but also engage with its
> community members on decision making for such exercises.
>
> 2)   Mr Rahul deshmukh had received an on record written invitation to
> attend the meeting and be a speaker on ‘Conflict Resolution’. The above
> said invitation was shown to CIS-A2K, when requesting them for travel
> assistance.
>
> *I have not stated anywhere that he received an invitation during the
> Chairpersons meeting at WMCON18*. He had attended Wikimedia Conference
> 2018 & in it had participated in the movement strategy discussion. It was
> during the movement strategy discussion that he received the invitation.
>
> 3)    The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members
> in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the
> particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in
> the movement. Chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit
> to represent it. Personally, I feel Bodhi, it is very unfair on your part,
> to even make such allegation that the chapter would even, consider such
> a scenario. A well wisher of the chapter would never make such comments.
>
> 4)   The Chapter is not of an opinion that the community members should be
> deprived of scholarship. Wikimedia India would like to put emphasis that
> during its grant tenure, Wikimedia India used to provide two sponsorship to
> its community members & we value the joy, which a volunteer gets, when he
> is informed that, he is going to Wikimania.
>
> However, in this scenario , none was deprived on anything. As I have
> repeatedly said, Mr Rahul Deshmukh was invited to attend and give a talk on
> conflict resolution. Since it was about the affiliates & partnerships
> amongst them, the chapter approached another affiliate CIS-A2K and CCing
> the chapter board members
>
> 5) The Chapter does not make any distinction between its board members and
> its community members. Unlike CIS-A2K, Wikimedia India board members are
> unpaid volunteers, similar to its community members, who give their time &
> effort towards the community.
>
> To Sum the entire email, the chapter has made a valuable learning, of
> engaging the community in a more effective way in the future.
>
> Regards,
> Yohann Thomas
> Secretary
> Wikimedia India
>
> P.S. - Neither your previous email, or any other email can affect our
> friendship, Bodhi .Our passion & commitment towards the movement, is what
> binds us :)
>
> --------
> On Sun 5 Aug, 2018, 12:27 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Yohann,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
>>
>>
>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single
>> word.
>>
>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make
>> it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
>>
>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the
>> main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups,
>> there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one
>> steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then
>> he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same
>> principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not
>> eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can
>> you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship
>> would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true,
>> everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups
>> in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year.
>>
>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of
>> chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a
>> proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was
>> invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't
>> attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide
>> the documentation of his invitation?
>>
>> [1]
>> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018
>>
>> [2]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018
>>
>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already
>> there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went
>> there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation
>> is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the
>> informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they
>> considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?
>>
>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas
>> Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So,
>> sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a
>> Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the
>> conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain
>> that?
>>
>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the
>> conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul
>> is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
>>
>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I
>> hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it
>> personally.
>>
>> Waiting for your detailed reply,
>>
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule)
>>>
>>> Hi Bodhi
>>>
>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I
>>> can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
>>>
>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
>>> attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India &
>>> then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the
>>> Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link
>>> below.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018
>>>
>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
>>> trip & they accepted his proposal. //
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Yohann Thomas
>>> Secretary
>>> Wikimedia India
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your mail.
>>>>
>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many
>>>> participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the
>>>> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the
>>>> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary
>>>> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any
>>>> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in
>>>> that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
>>>>
>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya
>>>> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on
>>>> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge
>>>> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where
>>>> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members
>>>> unfit to attend such meeting?
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for your reply,
>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohannvt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members
>>>>
>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India
>>>> is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any
>>>> topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers &
>>>> have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a
>>>> delay in drafting a reply.
>>>>
>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run
>>>> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards
>>>> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user
>>>> groups) in their volunteer roles.
>>>>
>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't
>>>> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is
>>>> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
>>>>
>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles
>>>> in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to
>>>> attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around
>>>> the world.
>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended
>>>> the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
>>>> subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting
>>>> at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2018
>>>>
>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
>>>> trip & they accepted his proposal.
>>>>
>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to
>>>> appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation
>>>> to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his
>>>> term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different
>>>> issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I
>>>> wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going
>>>> through a difficult time.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Yohann Thomas
>>>> Secretary
>>>> Wikimedia India
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
>>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape
>>>>> Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why
>>>>> was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India
>>>>> who were in the waiting list.
>>>>>
>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The
>>>>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and
>>>>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the
>>>>> meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>>>>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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