I was expecting a reply from WMIN.
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 14:25 Abhinav srivastava, <abhinav619(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Please allow me to respond to your confusions. Responses in line.
Again, as stated in my first mail on the thread, you are making too many
value-judgments with un-friendly tone.
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:27 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single
My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make
it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to the
main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups,
there happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one
steward, who have not received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then
he/she will have to spend his own money to attend the meeting. Same
principle lies here, participation for chairpersons meetup is not
eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can
you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship
would be provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true,
everyone will find someone to invite themselves to attend informal meetups
in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from WMIN from next year.
If you check the agenda section, WMIN President gave a talk on Conflict
Resolution, this is followed my summary in the notes. When there are so
many conflicts in Wikimedia communities across the globle, someone from
India is invited to put this theories towards resolution. This is a welcome
step. From Notes to his Summary Talk to how this will be carried forward
for future course, every thing is documented.
He did not simply attend the meeting as a participant or representing
Wikimedia India, he was a lead on the 3rd point of the Agenda which is
Conflcit Resolution. Everything on it is documented.
2) I have checked and rechecked the minute and
event page of
chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a
proof that he has attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was
invited at all because there is no point to invite someone who didn't
attend the meeting previously even he was present there. Can you provide
the documentation of his invitation?
I am sure when Wikimedia India President is invited to give a talk on a
defined Agenda, 'Conflict Resolution' and CIS-A2K is approving his request,
he must on record have recieved an invitation.
It cannot be that without an invitation someone would travel so far.
Also, please remember, unlike WMF staff or CIS-A2K, when someone from
Wikimedia India has to travel, he has to forgoe his personal paid holidays.
WMF staff or CIS-A2K travel abroad calling it 'On Work'.
3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he
was invited, already
there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went
there with full scholarship. You can check that president's participation
is not at all mandatory. Why WMIN didn't told them to attend the
informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the Chapter? Are they
considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?
This is about merit of the particular individual. This has nothing to do
with the other Two EC.
Secondly, stating this again, he didn't travel simply to attend the
meeting, he was given a set agenda to speak that is 'Conflict Resolution'.
It was a subject of one's personal merit on which the organising committee
invited him, this cannot be passed to other members of the same affiliate.
4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are
not the same. Whereas
Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So,
sending an affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a
Wikimedia volunteer who was in the waiting list and supposed to attend the
conference, is utter misuse of power and money. Can you please explain
I do not think that if Wikimedia India President didn't go someone else
would have been promoted. CIS-A2K should give a clarification on this.
Simply stating it once again, he didn't just travel to attend the
conference, he was a speaker. This is entirely a different subject.
5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was
supposed to attend the
conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul
is the president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
In response to statement 4.
I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I
hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it
Waiting for your detailed reply,
Additional Comment : When someone India is selected or rather invited to
give talk in an attempt to resolve the global problem. For me, this is a
I am sorry but again I find you to harsh towards the India Chapter. This
is my personal observation.
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas,
(sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs
I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want, I
can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
//In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India &
then subsequently was *invited* to Wikimania, especially the
Chairperson's meeting at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link
With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
trip & they accepted his proposal. //
On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
> Hi Yohann,
> Thanks for your mail.
> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see, that many
> participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the
> meeting on behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the
> meeting on behalf of Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary
> of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join the meeting as a President of any
> affiliates, usually, if one representative of an affiliate is present in
> that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna Chaitanya
> Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on
> behalf of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge
> amount of donation money to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where
> his presence is not at all mandatory. Does WMIN consider these two members
> unfit to attend such meeting?
> Waiting for your reply,
> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas" <yohannvt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Bodhi & other community members
> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia India
> is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any
> topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers &
> have their own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a
> delay in drafting a reply.
> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run
> organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards
> the chapter, as well as serve their regional communities (as well as user
> groups) in their volunteer roles.
> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't
> financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is
> fraught with regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
> Having said that, many community members juggle their different roles
> in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to
> attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around
> the world.
> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier attended
> the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
> subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting
> at Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund its
> trip & they accepted his proposal.
> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would really want to
> appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in relation
> to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his
> term expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different
> issues, inspite of us still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I
> wish there were more such vocal well wishers, when the chapter is going
> through a difficult time.
> Yohann Thomas
> Wikimedia India
> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal, <
> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape
>> Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why
>> was he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India
>> who were in the waiting list.
>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The
>> meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and
>> already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the
>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money.
>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
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