Totally agree, Abhinav. Much appreciate for highlighting the friendly space
aspect as that is very important (and is a very difficult balancing act).
For some context, esp. those who are not in the Wikimania list, sharing
below what I wrote there earlier.
<quote>
Though I’m not sure if it’d be right to take names here, but this is
probably an opportunity to discuss about:
- if there is a need for consensus when a Wikimedia affiliate provides
support to one person from another affiliate
- if an affiliate provides support if they share it on wiki for
transparency or not
- Wikimania scholarship recipients generally create Learning Patterns and
write reports. These are good practices in general but making it mandatory
for the scholarship recipients brings out a really valuable pool of
knowledge which otherwise might not be the case because of the post-
Wikimania fatigue. There is a need for more clarity if non-Wikimania
participants (individual/affiliate reps) who travel because of support from
another affiliate should also produce the same
- If an affiliate decides to provide support, should they announce publicly
(on regional mailman lists and meta/village pumps) if there is any
conflict. If there was a rationale that the former used to identify certain
individuals, should they share that as well?
I think discussing these above would be useful in general.
<unquote>
I'd reiterate that it is important to discuss about issues because the
larger problem is about organizational processes (and open and transparent
nature of the same) rather than an individual. So IMO the subject of
discussion is is not Rahul but how organizational supports are provided.
I generally agree with Abhinav's points. Also, much appreciate Wikimedia
India leadership for their contribution to the movement in difficult times.
That said, there is a need to discuss about the issues that concern the
larger Indian community, and both Wikimedia India and CIS-A2K are two major
stakeholders. It would be great to hear from each side how they see this.
About the Bangalore meeting prior to WMCON, I joined as an Odia Wikimedians
UG rep, and shared the outcomes of the same with my community in serveral
occasions. I didn't create an LP and I still hold myself accountable for
the same.
On the last bit about CIS-A2K's reporting, I personally don't think a team
that is paid can be compared to an organization that is run by volunteers.
Maybe an intern can do it, but the community might be interested to
volunteer to write CIS-A2K's reports. Again, my personal view.
Subhashish
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 11:13 AM, Abhinav srivastava <abhinav619(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello Satdeep, Bodhisattwa and All,
I believe the response to the first statement put by Satdeep, on having
expected more discussions, stands firm, Indian community has advanced from
the notion of “Constantly enduring in fights amongst themselves”. The
mailing list have largely remained positive and most importantly friendly
in nature for some time now. Indian community needs this kind of a
behaviour.
While Bodhisattwa was absolutely democratic and correct in inquiring,
debating or in fact questioning this issue, his tone could have been
better. When the issue requires clarity of information, putting value
judgements along with taking names, I believe this could have been put in a
better manner. Otherwise, we haven’t progressed at all.
As far as Wikimania mailing list is concerned, I too subsequently inquired
and I find response has been provided for the same, two days back.
Bodhisattwa has been subsequently replying. Also, the respective mailing
list advises that the issue is a different matter and not relevant for the
mailing list. Satdeep, you did not inform about this information in your
mail.
Bodhisattwa, as a past executive committee member of the Wikimedia India,
I would like to say Wikimedia India always believes in the will of the
community being the will of the executive committee. I can personally say,
Chapter having no money, the Executive committee members have paid from
their pockets to provide all the necessary support. You were also one of
its recipients for Internet scholarship until some telecom companies
started providing very pocket friendly price internet services and we
requested you to shift (Reliance Jio). The several executive committee
members did not earn still they paid from their pocket to support you and
others. We did it because we always believed in you, your work has been
fantastic even community members used to express their happiness to us for
on having supported Bodhisattwa.
Like the allegation today, even two years back on Wikimania there happened
to be an allegation on an Indian language village pump, concerning you and
your travel. The Chapter paid no heed and remained firm in supporting you.
Unnamed and unmentioned, I would say the editor who questioned then is also
a very senior member and having been associated as a staff in few of the
institutions which concerns us. Today, you seem to be in a very similar
position, an experienced community who is questioning with no so proper
tone and taking names. Bodhisattwa, you should lead the community members
in promoting friendly space not doing the opposites.
Now, coming to responses made by Satdeep and Subhashish on the other
thread. This issue requires much more gravity. A lot of things have been
happening without community being informed anything. This just not concerns
one person. Correct me if I am wrong, but this summer an affiliates
conference was organised in Bengaluru, just before the Berlin Wikimedia
Conference. To my understanding, all delegates were supposed to attend the
conference were invited and others who reside in Bengaluru. But then, what
was the need to make this exercise secret in nature. Again, only to my
understanding, this was organised by Centre for Internet and Society. Like
Subhashish has mentioned, need for a consensus, share it on Wiki for
transparency or not, participants create Learning Patterns and write report
etc. Such things should happen here too. Also, is there an event page on
Meta about this meeting?
To my CIS friends, nothing personal here, the argument on transparency has
been happening so I though of voicing my views. I would advise you to keep
informing the community of your activities, I cannot find any monthly work
reports which used to be shared earlier. In fact, the meta page does not
even provide a 2018 section for reports. Please look into this, we are in
the 8th month of the year. My piece of advice would be let someone
volunteer and create your reports, if you do not have staff at the moment.
Just like Wikimedia India were reports are created by volunteers.
At last, Bodhisattwa, my friend, like Satdeep and Subhashish raise your
voice but maintain friendly spirt.
Thanks,
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 12:26 AM Satdeep Gill <satdeepgill(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I expected more discussion on this. Although, Subhashish reposted this on
> Wikimania mailing list and asked some really good questions.
>
> I agree with Subha that if an affiliate decides to send someone to
> Wikimania then the whole selection process should be transparent and also
> some reporting guidelines should be established similar to Wikimania.
>
> All this can help ensure trust of the wider Wikimedia community in our
> processes and decisions.
>
> I do want to hear why was it deemed necessary for the WMIN President to
> be present at that informal meetup during Wikimania.
>
> I do know that for some other Chapters whose chairperson's were not
> attending Wikimania, some editor Board/EC member attended the meetup on
> their behalf.
>
> I expect to hear more about this.
>
> Regards
> Satdeep Gill
>
> Community Outreach Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_Readers>
> Co-founder, Punjabi Wikimedians
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikimedians>
> Member, Affiliations Committee
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee>
> Member, Language Committee
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee>
>
>
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 at 17:30, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018 in Cape
>> Town
>> without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why
>> was
>> he sent to the conference depriving other community members from India
>> who
>> were in the waiting list.
>>
>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few minutes. The
>> meeting
>> doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and already
>> there
>> were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting.
>>
>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation money.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bodhisattwa
>>