On May 1, 2014 6:32 PM, "arun vm" <arunwebber@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> HOme work?.
> I hate it from my school days :)
>
> I just want to tell a story about anna hasare that movement is
> completly based on online acttivitys such peopels are all from india
> and kejariwalls AAP is completly based on online activitys
Being wrong with grammar is absolutely fine . But please take care to mention names properly.
>
>
> Are you peopels are able to accept india is already matured in the
> case of online activity?.
>
> Now think why there is no peopels in WIKI apart from some south indians?.
>
What do you want to say here?
>
> On 5/1/14, Kevin Gorman <kgorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Karthik -
> >
> > I'll step back from the conversation after this, but did want to say that
> > although I haven't been active in many discussions on this list, I've read
> > almost every conversation on every public list related to the Wikimedia
> > movement's activities in India for the last several years, as well as those
> > private lists which I have access to, so I'm not coming in completely out
> > of the blue (including a lot of the discussions and frustrations around the
> > catalyst program and how it was split off.) I'm not actively trying to
> > support CIS's practices, or say they should get their entire grant - I
> > haven't evaluated it on anywhere near an adequate basis to have an opinion
> > on it (I'm thoroughly obsessive about evaluating grants.) I do think it's
> > significant that they indicated an active desire to fix them over time
> > while not being unfair to their current employees - WMDC's most recent
> > grant brought up some questions about how Wikimedia movement affiliates
> > should be treating employees, and I think it will probably be necessary to
> > come up with movement wide standards at some point, where CIS may present
> > valuable guidance of a slightly different sort.
> >
> > I understand where Ravi's frustrations are coming from (and I'm pretty sure
> > I've spoken more with WMIN members in my movement work than people
> > affiliated with CIS,) I just wanted to speak up when I saw someone with
> > advanced permissions on multiple projects actively suggest an action that,
> > if successful, would not be good, and even if not successful, won't be
> > good. I would highly encourage people to focus efforts in productive
> > directions, like improving local fundraising ability, or in participating
> > on some of the meta-movement discussions that are happening right now about
> > the FDC and its future, how we should expect movement affiliate employees
> > to be treated, etc. (Although I also can't blame anyone who feels a need
> > to step back out of frustration; the direction of Ravi's email just
> > concerned me.) I think it would even probably to do detailed post-mortems
> > as has started for the Belfer WiR posting to ensure that lessons learned
> > from past mistakes are not repeated (it's worth noting that many of those
> > involved in splitting off the catalyst programs have left the Foundation,
> > and a lot of their knowledge about what went wrong, including what mistakes
> > they may've made, may have left with them without being recorded.)
> >
> > Best,
> > Kevin Gorman
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Karthik Nadar
> > <karthikndr@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> When its about the Indian Community, I would further appreciate if
> >> community members from India write in here. There seems to be more to
> >> foreign members defending CIS-A2K grant while it should be more of Indian
> >> community either defending or chasing.
> >>
> >> I think Gerard needs to understand the Indian Community from depth; not
> >> keep on defending CIS-A2K just because you were supposed to run a project
> >> with them. The volunteer community here can also do that. We have well
> >> versed Wikidata contributors. Please see how the volunteer activities
> >> have
> >> dropped down so tremendously since past two years.
> >>
> >> Everyone's comment on the discussion is appreciated; doesn't matters in
> >> support or in contrast againsy the FDC proposal of CIS-A2K. But,
> >> seriously
> >> and on first basis, it should be coming from Indian community members not
> >> from anyone who doesn't understand the current scenario here. General
> >> comments from anyone is welcome, but please do some home-work first.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Ravi,
> >>
> >> I'm sure campaigning against donations to Wikimedia will bring the
> >> movement in bad light; but something like campaigning for Wikimedia India
> >> and deteriorating its dependency on WMF will be awesome. Wikimedia India
> >> currently needs some legal help to initiate after which we believe
> >> that this is something needs to be achieved with strong support from the
> >> community.
> >>
> >> WMF has already decided that it wants to create more and more mess here.
> >> I'm sure to see that the CIS-A2K will get almost 100% for what they have
> >> requested for [maybe more :P]. Things are all scripted and discussions
> >> are
> >> mere drama. Creation of such a project is itself a great proof for that.
> >>
> >> Another example is: When first employee of WMIN was hired, WMF created
> >> such a mess out of it. When A2K was started, WMIN had to no chance to
> >> voice
> >> out for or against it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please note: I don't have any personal intentions against CIS. They have
> >> been so open and helpful to WMIN. Its the WMF attitude towards its focus
> >> in
> >> India that creates trouble and mess. Thanks to Them!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Karthik Nadar.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would equally suggest that trying to cut off or limit the flow of
> >>> funds
> >>> to the movement because you're upset that someone is being overpaid is
> >>> putting your personal interest above the movement's interest. I mean, if
> >>> you were literally successful in your stated goal, the movement would no
> >>> longer *exist*. I'm sure the FDC will take relevant factors in to
> >>> consideration when looking at CIS's request, there's no need for
> >>> hyperbolic
> >>> calls to start a donation boycott. If this were truly just about
> >>> profligate spending, there's probably a hundred things in the Wikimedia
> >>> movement you could latch on to that are more outrageous.
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Kevin Gorman
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Ravishankar
> >>> <ravidreams@gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Kevin,
> >>>>
> >>>> It isn't about the exact numbers and percentages. It is about
> >>>> integrity.
> >>>>
> >>>> You accept that you are getting over paid and yet you won't fix it,
> >>>> then
> >>>> it is putting your personal interest above the movement's interest.
> >>>>
> >>>> You call yourself a non-proft and yet you pay a salary that is far
> >>>> above
> >>>> for-proft standards.
> >>>>
> >>>> And when we ask for results or performance analysis, you say that we
> >>>> can't measure that yet.
> >>>>
> >>>> CIS acknowledges that it is over paying its
> >>>> staff<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/The_Centre_for_Internet_and_Society/Proposal_form#Q19>disproportionate
> >>>> to industry standards and their own institution's salary
> >>>> structure. Yet, 51.26% of their
> >>>> budget<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Draft_Work_plan_July_2014_-_June_2015/Budget#Budget_as_per_Expenditure_Heads>goes
> >>>> to payments towards full time staff, resource persons and consultants
> >>>> (line items 1, 7 and 11.2). This is against the guidelines issued to
> >>>> the
> >>>> FDC<http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2013-04-18#Guidance_for_the_FDC>on
> >>>> rising cost of institutionalization.
> >>>>
> >>>> This inflated structure is a mistake created by WMF and it should own
> >>>> the responsibility of fixing it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just because movement funds are available in plenty, you don't go
> >>>> around
> >>>> wasting it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ravi
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
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