Dear ECs of WMIN,

I urge, if not Rahul who might be busy enough in presidential responsibilities, someone should come and respond to the queries members of the chapter and community members are expecting. 

Truly highlighted by Krishna, because President and et all EC members are community elected, queries from the later raised in nation-wide making list demands real attention. 

There have been a major delay and the community have respected exigencies one might come across, but there has to be a timeline for everything. Ignoring the question is just not the solution. 

Someone in the trail mail had well highlighted to apologise if there was a miscommunication with respect to the raised query, and frankly, community will accept it with true justification.

I'm further adding WMIN-EC list in cc so that the entire trail reaches everyone assuming it is someone's responsibility to track such mails over mailing list and respond to the community.

Karthik Nadar

On Sat, 23 Mar, 2019, 1:08 AM Krishna Chaitanya Velaga, <> wrote:
Thanks Satdeep, for the heads-up. This is important

Hi Rahul, 

I really urge you to speak yourself about this issue here, provide reasoning and explain your line for thought regarding your participation at Wikimania 2018. Members from the Chapter and others as well tried to explain, whatsoever. But being the President of Wikimedia Chapter (India), I strongly believe that you need voice your thoughts on this matter and explain it to the community. When the issue has been (still unanswered) directly pointed out and had been referred to you by several people at several instances, you should answer it yourself. By the virtue of your position, you are required to respond, because the President of WMIN is a community-elected position. 

In the past of this conversation, there was a point where the President of Wikimedia Chapter (India) is not subscribed to this mailing list. But I strongly feel and you should be subscribed as the Leader of a national entity, and be answerable with due respect. I am Ccing you with your WMIN email to make sure that, even though you aren't subscribed, you receive the previous emails and mine as well.

Let me know if you need any clarification on things.

--Krishna C V.

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:13 AM Satdeep Gill <> wrote:
Hi Rahul,

This is a reminder for you to reply on this email thread. It's been more than 5 months and I was expecting a reply from you and I am guessing others were expecting it too. Kindly refer to my email dated 13th September 2018 in this thread.

- Satdeep

On Sun, 16 Sep, 2018, 4:27 PM Abhinav srivastava, <> wrote:

Good Evening!

Firstly, no attempts to deviate or dismantle the principal problem or replying with impulse. Yes, I am a public-spirited community member and this is truer for India Chapter. The reason I asked Asaf to revert on privacy because many issues like contracts are not disclosed to the general community and instead of we debating endlessly it is better to speak advice from an outside observer and speed up the process.

Post-Asaf’s response, I inquired with the Affiliates committee myself. This is not to say Mr. Deshmukh should not reply, he indeed should to any concerns whatever community seeks to know. Again, my public spirit asked me to do it, nothing else at all. I am not trying to bring deviations.

Mr. Frans Grijzenhout, Chair, The Netherland Chapter informs me that he invited Mr. Deshmukh for the meetup. He informed me that conflict management is a serious issue in the context such as Wikimedia France 2017. All information is already present on Wikimedia Meta. Here's the page with links to the minutes of the meetings, the discussion papers, and some statements in issues that concerns the global affiliate. Yohann has already shared this with the community on this thread before. 

I did not realize that it was the same person who wrote on the Wikimania mailing list when this issue was raised. He had written,

Hi Bodhisattewa, Please take into consideration that Rahul did more than

speaking for a few minutes during the chairs' meeting in Cape Town.

- He prepared a discussion note for this meeting about a sensitive topic.

- Rahul and me had several discussions (per skype and in person) in the

weeks preceding the actual meeting.

- Rahul presented his ideas during the meeting and was actively engaged in

the discussion.

- And in the end he got some home work as well: enhancing his note with the

outcomes of the discussion.

The contribution of Rahul was much appreciated.

Regards, Frans

Now one more concern that I find as being raised by a few community members when two EC members were present what was the need to send Mr. Deshmukh himself. On Wednesday, 8th August 2018 at 12:42 Indian Standard Time, Yohann had replied on behalf of the Chapter, “ The chapter has full faith and belief in all its board members in both, individual and collective levels. This invitation was to the particular individual based on his expertise in the chapter and in the movement. The chapter has never considered any of its board members unfit to represent it.  

I further inquired about this issue with the Affiliates Committee. While Mr. Deshmukh was invited to speak on the Conflict Management the rules say, “The session is for chairs of chapters and thematic organizations only. You can delegate another member of your board if you cannot make it yourself

So yes, the rules do say that some other board member can be delegated this responsibility. To my understanding, the sentiments of the community were not recorded here. This blunder of not informing the community has perhaps turned in Mahatma Gandhi’s word, ‘A Himalayan Blunder’. While Yohann on behalf of Chapter has written that they make a note and would engage more effectively with the community in future and also assurance by CIS-A2K but we shouldn’t stop here. Discussions should be made on how to bring this transparency much more effectively. At last, if the community believes and required that Chapter should write a 7 letter word, ‘apology’ they shouldn’t be hesitant and write it straightaway.


Now not to deviate the topic but I also wanted to know from CIS-A2K, the sponsor myself. Which ledger were the funds allocated, whether from affiliates travel ledger or volunteers travel? Bodhisattwa had asked why the subsequent travel scholarship was not allocated to those in waiting subsequently. The Affiliates body could not provide clarity on this. 2016 Wiki Conference India editors had asked for the scholarship from CIS-A2K and they were awarded not keeping the waiting list criteria, also. I wish to propose a simple step suggestion if the waiting list members decline to attend Wikimania, cases for those invited to speak for a session (like Dr Manavpreet in 2017) can be provided the scholarship. Of course! on each such case merit of the visit needs to be quantified beforehand. Similarly, for steward meetings amongst others. I can float a white paper on how to quantify such metrics (not on this thread, I recognize it will deviate from the main issue) and community can share more inputs.

Anyways, I do not wish to write more and I will be selective and careful in responding as per some of the suggestions received on this thread so far. Since I had inquired myself so I thought of sharing. Please pardon if my messages have seemed to be hiding the principal problem and making others suspicious. Those were not my intentions and that is why I inquired myself.

Disclaimer: I have not spoken to any Wikimedia India office-bearers before approaching the Affiliates Committee or writing this mail.



On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 3:38 PM Abhinav srivastava <> wrote:
Thank You Asaf Bartov for writing back! 

On Fri 14 Sep, 2018, 3:33 PM Asaf Bartov, <> wrote:
Wikimedia India is an Indian organization, and the Wikimedia Foundation does not have a say in its internal governance.  It does, of course, have great *influence*, insofar as it is historically its biggest funder, and in that it can revoke its recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate.  I state this just for clarity, so that no one is confused about WMF's role in this discussion.  This is a matter for Wikimedia India and the communities in India which it exists to serve, and not a WMF matter.

However, since you ask me directly, Abhinav, yes, I think this public inquiry (which was brought up respectfully and patiently, and only became shrill because of *your* ad hominem responses) is perfectly acceptable, and an office bearer's accountability is a duty that cannot be argued away by invoking "privacy". Rahul's travel was not private, but made *as* an office bearer, and there can be no privacy concern about it.

I agree with Srikar: your repeated tactic of attempting to discredit the people who raised concerns is inappropriate, aggressive, uncollegial, unhelpful, and for those not convinced of your good faith, also probably suggesting an attempt to cover something up or change the subject by any means necessary. 

Now, *I myself* trust there is no reason to cover anything up. As I already said earlier in this thread, if a mistake was made, it can be openly admitted; in my experience Wikimedians are exceptionally open and forgiving when faced with honest admission of error or bad judgment. And if no mistake was made, then clarifications can be offered and understanding and trust regained.

Rahul has now explained the circumstances of his non-responsiveness, and people have expressed understanding and patience, while declining his suggestion that this should be discussed privately.  Rahul now can take the time he needs to explain his actions to the community, which is the constituency he is to serve.



On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 20:44 Abhinav srivastava <> wrote:

Perhaps it would be advisable to hear from Mr Asaf Bartov and if we can throw some light. 

Whether best practices call for taking name publicly or should the concerned persons approach CIS and WMIN and get the details.  

On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Abhinav srivastava <> wrote:
It is necessary my friend. Name game business is no sign of maturity. Rest, report has already been shared. 

Affcom member who is selected and not elected showing biases concerns me. This chapter only made him a featured wikimedians and assisted him and his friends. His friend has also acknowledged the help on this thread when EC members paid from their pocket to support him. He still hasn't finished the report but we don't do sensationalism. 

Post Script : Just a general though based on today morning newspapers. India has become a hub of online trolling where one asks the other to respond. I am happy they are restricted to social media and not us here. 

I personally respect you for your work on en Wikipedia and also helping the chapter. I will not reply if you feel so. Suggestion taken.


On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 10:34 PM Srikar Kashyap Pulipaka, <> wrote:
<Just a random observation>

Dear Abhinav,

I feel you have been overly enthusiastic in responding to the mails in this thread. I clearly don't find *anything* personal and offensive in Satdeep's email. That was a totally uncalled for attack on him. It is indeed true that Rahul must answer a few questions raised in this thread *himself*. I strongly suggest that we let Rahul address all the concerns himself in this thread once and for all. I don't expect your reply to this mail and hope you don't too. It's not necessary.


On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 10:19 PM Abhinav srivastava <> wrote:
Comrade Satdeep, 

Respect one's personal privacy. You can approach CIS-A2K or Mr Deshmukh and WMIN and know who invited. Rest, report and documentation has already been shared. You can also write on the discussion page on Meta where report has been shared and find out, if you really want an individual's name public. I am not convinced why an international volunteers name need to be called. 

You are not even an elected member at Affcom, if my memory serves me correctly. You did not hold any work experience which was written as mandatory for the office you are holding. I am not sure if you shared any report for the Hindi contractual job. You want to discuss everything about you on a personal mail. 

Why the difference? 


On Thu 13 Sep, 2018, 9:35 PM Satdeep Gill, <> wrote:
Hi Rahul,

It's very sad to hear about your loss. I totally understand how difficult it must have been for you and rest of your family.

Thanks a lot responding to this thread. I understand your request to personally email you but there are many unanswered questions such as information about the inviting organization, reporting etc. in this thread and it would be better if you can answer all the questions one by one in one email on this thread itself.

Let me know if you need any help in collecting all the questions in one email. I am available to help you. Otherwise, just go through the whole thread (which will provide you with enough context as well).

I agree with you that this discussion will help WMIN and the larger wikimedia community as well. It will also help us ensure more transparency in our processes.

Looking forward to hear from you! Thank you once again for taking out some time to reply here. I believe you must not be fully available yet. So, take your time and respond whenever you can in the coming weeks.


On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:09 PM Rahul Deshmukh <> wrote:

Dear all,

I am extremely sorry to inform you that my younger cousin brother passed away last Friday from severe medical complications. He was just 38 and had been hospitalised for several weeks in critical stage.

Being engrossed in the family issue I was not able to reply the thread for which I am extremely sorry.

Regarding the issue as discussed in the thread I had requested for sponsorship with all needful information from external funding agency CIS, and CIS agreed to it.  Wikimedia India did not spend any fund from its account. 

However this discussion will be helpful for Wikimedia India while disseminating WMIN’s funds in future.  

In case someone wants any other information  in this regard I would request community members to personally email me.


Rahul Deshmukh

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Sudhanwa Jogalekar <> wrote:

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 3:47 PM Subhashish Panigrahi <> wrote:
Just a technical clarification - Asaf copied Rahul in his first emai so he must have received the email. I have copied Rahul again. In worst case scenario (if he is not there in the mailing list), others from the chapter board would have informed him. It’s very hard to believe that the discussion has gone so far without Rahul not being aware Also, it’s important for movement partner reps to be on mailing lists of their own country. 

My bad. Haven't noticed Rahul is also marked in the mails.

Sorry, I don’t find the argument — that Rahul hasn’t replied back because he isn’t there in the mailing list — a strong one.

Completely agree that he should reply.


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