imho it is too early to consider friendly society, limited company, registered charity or any other status first, let us see if there is sufficient interest I'm remembering last time: only three showed up So, pick a date (Sept18?); pick a location; lets see - then consider corporate status Regards - ClemMcGann
On 25 July 2010 21:27, Clement McGann clement.mcgann@rocketmail.com wrote:
imho it is too early to consider friendly society, limited company, registered charity or any other status first, let us see if there is sufficient interest I'm remembering last time: only three showed up So, pick a date (Sept18?); pick a location; lets see - then consider corporate status
It's too early to make any decisions, but it doesn't hurt to start researching the options.
Hi, My question is, are there enough Irish Wikimedians to form, well, from what I gathered, a company with an address, shareholders and the likes. The Irish representation of people on Wikimedia is only a fraction of what our British counterparts have. A few things: There are not that many of us who are extremely active on En Wikipedia. Some of the most basic articles there lie in tatters; this morning from 0:00 to 10:20 GMT, there were only around a two or three dozen edits on Vicipéid. (I know I haven't included Commons etc, but they are likely to be less populated.) If a Friendly Society is registered, unlimited liability doesn't really have a major part in the setting up, because what would we spend money on? Keep up the thinking guys, some sort of meeting is required (although, I don't do weekends, so would not be able to attend). Cheers,Colm Kingaka Cargoking
or any other status first, let us see if there is sufficient interest I'm remembering last time: only three showed up So, pick a date (Sept18?); pick a location; lets see - then consider corporate status
It's too early to make any decisions, but it doesn't hurt to start researching the options.
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On 26 July 2010 10:26:08 UTC+1, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
If a Friendly Society is registered, unlimited liability doesn't really have a major part in the setting up, because what would we spend money on?
One problem is if Wikimedia Ireland gets sued for libel on Wikipedia or something and for some reason doesn't succeed in convincing the court that it isn't the chapter's responsibility. The individual trustees would then be personally liable for the damages. It's chance of it happening is very small (getting sued is quite likely, actually, but the court should realise pretty quickly that the chapter isn't responsible) but the potential cost to the trustees is enormous. It is also possible for the chapter to be sued for things that actually are its fault (due to mistakes by the board or staff) and the same problem would apply.
I had incorrectly assumed that a Friendly Society is limited in liability. It is not. Aside from the limited company route, the co-operative route is also open. That would enjoy limited liability and might be more in tune with the open spirt of Wikimedia.
(One big difference between a co-op and a company is that a co-op requires a minimum of 7 participants will to act as a committee but is more fluid in membership/ownership.)
Oliver
On 26 Jul 2010, at 15:22, Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 26 July 2010 10:26:08 UTC+1, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
If a Friendly Society is registered, unlimited liability doesn't really have a major part in the setting up, because what would we spend money on?
One problem is if Wikimedia Ireland gets sued for libel on Wikipedia or something and for some reason doesn't succeed in convincing the court that it isn't the chapter's responsibility. The individual trustees would then be personally liable for the damages. It's chance of it happening is very small (getting sued is quite likely, actually, but the court should realise pretty quickly that the chapter isn't responsible) but the potential cost to the trustees is enormous. It is also possible for the chapter to be sued for things that actually are its fault (due to mistakes by the board or staff) and the same problem would apply.
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User:Rannpháirtí anaithnid
Quote from http://www.cro.ie/ena/business-registration-company.aspx:%22A company limited by guarantee not having a share capital: As this is a public company, there must be a minimum of seven members. The members' liability is limited to the amount they have undertaken to contribute to the assets of the company, in the event it is wound up, not exceeding the amount specified in the memorandum. If a guarantee company does not have a share capital, the members are not required to buy any shares in the company. Many charitable and professional bodies find this form of company to be a suitable vehicle as they wish to secure the benefits of separate legal personality and of limited liability but do not require to raise funds from the members."
Looks like another option. Colm
From: wiki_ra@yahoo.ie Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:49:18 +0100 To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] Ready To Go?
I had incorrectly assumed that a Friendly Society is limited in liability. It is not. Aside from the limited company route, the co-operative route is also open. That would enjoy limited liability and might be more in tune with the open spirt of Wikimedia.
(One big difference between a co-op and a company is that a co-op requires a minimum of 7 participants will to act as a committee but is more fluid in membership/ownership.)
Oliver
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On 26 July 2010 22:10, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
Quote from http://www.cro.ie/ena/business-registration-company.aspx: "A company limited by guarantee not having a share capital: As this is a public company, there must be a minimum of seven members. The members' liability is limited to the amount they have undertaken to contribute to the assets of the company, in the event it is wound up, not exceeding the amount specified in the memorandum. If a guarantee company does not have a share capital, the members are not required to buy any shares in the company. Many charitable and professional bodies find this form of company to be a suitable vehicle as they wish to secure the benefits of separate legal personality and of limited liability but do not require to raise funds from the members."
Looks like another option.
That was the type of company I was referring to. I don't know what kind of company other people were talking about.
Very clear, Colm. Thank you. It was "limited by shares" that I was talking about.
Just putting an idea out there on the back of what Andrew wrote:
Would the activities of a Wikimedia Ireland be so greatly different from any activity we might engage in as individuals right now so as to warrant a greater fear of being sued than we have right now as individual? Or would it attract greater attention for would-be suers?
If no then an unincorporated association would probably be sufficient. At the start anyway.
Oliver
________________________________ From: Colm King cargoking@live.com To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Mon, 26 July, 2010 22:10:20 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] Ready To Go?
Quote from http://www.cro.ie/ena/business-registration-company.aspx: "A company limited by guarantee not having a share capital: As this is a public company, there must be a minimum of seven members. The members' liability is limited to the amount they have undertaken to contribute to the assets of the company, in the event it is wound up, not exceeding the amount specified in the memorandum. If a guarantee company does not have a share capital, the members are not required to buy any shares in the company. Many charitable and professional bodies find this form of company to be a suitable vehicle as they wish to secure the benefits of separate legal personality and of limited liability but do not require to raise funds from the members."
Looks like another option.
Colm
From: wiki_ra@yahoo.ie Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:49:18 +0100 To: wikimediaie@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia IE] Ready To Go?
I had incorrectly assumed that a Friendly Society is limited in liability. It is not. Aside from the limited company route, the co-operative route is also open. That would enjoy limited liability and might be more in tune with the open spirt of Wikimedia.
(One big difference between a co-op and a company is that a co-op requires a minimum of 7 participants will to act as a committee but is more fluid in membership/ownership.)
Oliver
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On 3 Aug 2010, at 10:27, Rannpháirtí Anaithnid wrote:
Would the activities of a Wikimedia Ireland be so greatly different from any activity we might engage in as individuals right now so as to warrant a greater fear of being sued than we have right now as individual? Or would it attract greater attention for would-be suers?
If no then an unincorporated association would probably be sufficient. At the start anyway.
A chapter is both easier to find and easier to sue than a single person, as it has a higher profile amongst those that might sue a Wikimedia organisation (e.g. you'll be able to find its contact details via the WMF press contacts page) and there is a legal entity rather than a single person. It will probably have greater funds than an individual, and hence represent a choicer pick for someone to sue.
The normal situation is that someone sees something in a Wikipedia article that they don't like, and tries to sue to get it taken down. The defence for a chapter faced with this is that we don't have any control over the contents of Wikipedia - that's the WMF. A number of chapters have already been (unsuccessfully) sued on this basis - e.g. Wikimedia Deutschland and Wikimedia Italia. Wikimedia UK has had some threatening letters, but nothing that has progressed further (yet).
So, it's probably worth having that safety net of limited liability in place just in case.
Mike Peel
In relation to the possibility of being sued, one thing that might be of note is that blasphemy is currently illegal in Ireland! €25,000 maximum fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law#Ireland
I believe a referendum is being held soon which will decide whether or not to change this - it is actually required by the Irish constitution that there be a blasphemy law. I think it is very important that the constitution be changed and the blasphemy law be removed. If you agree, please make sure to vote appropriately when the time comes.
Conor.
I'm gonna respond here with a few ways to get more Irish people involved... even if that's not what you were asking about. ;-)
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 5:26 AM, Colm King cargoking@live.com wrote:
A few things: There are not that many of us who are extremely active on En Wikipedia.
Good places to reach out for more people on enwiki: * WikiProject Ireland[1] and its discussion page[2] * the Irish noticeboard[3] * Active Irish users[4]
Some of the most basic articles there lie in tatters; this morning from 0:00 to 10:20 GMT, there were only around a two or three dozen edits on Vicipéid. (I know I haven't included Commons etc, but they are likely to be less populated.)
About gawiki, I think you guys already reached out to them on their village pump[5], but a reminder and note about the meetup wouldn't hurt. It might also be good to also poke the admins[6] and maybe some of the active users[7].
To find some active Gaelic speakers (and probably Irish people) on Commons, you could try looking by babel information[8].
[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:IE [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Irish_Wikipedians%27_notice_board [4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Irish_Wikipedians%27_notice_board/Act... [5]http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicip%C3%A9id:Halla_baile [6]http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speisialta:ListUsers/sysop [7]http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speisialta:ActiveUsers [8]http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:User_ga
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