On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 09:56 -0700, Pietro Roveri wrote:
> Caros,
> Pelo visto a situação é mais complexa do que a simples existência de
> um capítulo. A impressão é que eles sentem falta de uma estrutura de
> comando que se submeta às decisões da fundação ou do comitê de
> capítulos. É a boa e velha estrutura do Partido e nós já sabemos onde
> isso vai dar. A Wikipédia não existiria sem as pessoas que são
> voluntárias. A Fundação não existiria sem os voluntários dos projetos.
> Há uma tentativa de subverter o valor real das ações em nome da
> institucionalização da Wikimedia na economia da sociedade. Isso também
> se reflete nas ideias elencadas na entrevista do Chi. E alguns
> elementos são sintomáticos, por exemplo:
> - A burocratização por meio dos capítulos;
> - O descolamento dessas estruturas das comunidades dos projetos;
> - O foco em parceirias negociais ao invés de novos caminhos para
> voluntários;
> - As pessoas como causas dos problemas;
> - Jimbo como um figura de autoridade carismática que respalda essa
> estrutura;
> Se essas são as ideias defendidas pelos capítulos da WMF, então, na
> minha opinião, não devemos ser um capítulo. Para ser mais preciso, se
> a proposta é essa, devemos ser o lado diametralmente oposto de um
> capítulo. Sendo que nos aproximamos somente em função dos ideais
> defendidos e não pela maneira de se organizar. Eis que chegamos ao
> segundo ponto: a necessidade de descrever o que somos. Penso que a
> melhor forma é descrever pelo o que não somos. Não somos nenhum dos
> elementos levantados acima e que substancializam um capítulo. Somos um
> capítulo sem a substância de comando. Portanto, a meu ver, somos um
> não-capítulo, non-chapter WMBR.
>
> Pietro
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> De: Thomas de Souza Buckup <
thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com>
> Para: Mailing list do Capítulo brasileiro da Wikimedia.
> <
wikimediabr-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Enviadas: Segunda-feira, 15 de Março de 2010 12:39:27
> Assunto: [Wikimedia Brasil] Fwd: Is Wikimedia Brasil a chapter?
>
> Pessoal,
>
> Vejam abaixo a mensagem que o Thomas Dalton compartilhou com os demais
> capítulos (comigo em cópia). Alguém se habilita a estabelecer contato
> com eles?
>
> Abraços,
> Thomas
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Thomas Dalton <
thomas.dalton@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:56:50 +0000
> Subject: Is Wikimedia Brasil a chapter?
> To: "Local Chapters, board and officers coordination (closed
> subscription)" <
internal-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Cc: thomasdesouzabuckup <
thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com>
>
> Is Wikimedia Brasil a chapter? As things stand, that is a question
> with no answer since we have never actually decided (we've been rather
> putting it off, since it isn't an easy decision). It is on the list of
> chapters on meta [1], but more by default than concious choice (it was
> added to the list when it was still expected to become a conventional
> chapter, if memory serves, and just hasn't been removed). This
> question came up a couple of days ago in respect of the ongoing vote
> to decide on a process to select people for the chapter seats on the
> WMF board (incidentally - we're just one chapter short of a majority
> supporting now, so if your chapter hasn't voted yet, please do! I'd
> like to send it off to the WMF board for approval ASAP). I listed the
> chapters yet to vote and didn't list Brazil and I was asked privately
> if that was intentional. It was. I didn't include them because I can't
> see how than can participate. They don't have the necessary governance
> structure, as far as I know. There is no way for them to reach a
> collective decision (except perhaps by consensus, which seems
> impractical in the limited time available). Also, they cannot actually
> participate in the process should it be accepted, since we agreed the
> list of nominees would be confidential and restricted to chapter board
> members, which WMBR doesn't have any of. So, for purely practical
> reasons, WMBR cannot participate in inter-chapter decision making,
> which is a problem if it is a chapter.
>
> The official requirements for chapters [2] includes: "The chapter must
> have a legal structure/corporation that is legally independent from
> the Wikimedia Foundation." WMBR does not satisfy that requirement.
> Clearly, we must either relax that requirement or cease to consider
> WMBR a chapter. There are arguments in favour of both options, but my
> preference is to not consider WMBR a chapter. Without a legal
> structure, they are just incapable of doing a large number of things I
> consider part of the normal existence of a chapter. They cannot
> fundraise. They cannot enter into a trademark agreement with the WMF.
> They cannot effectively speak with any kind of official voice. While a
> great deal of useful work can be done without being able to do those
> things, I don't think the work of a chapter can.
>
> It has been suggested numerous times before without anything being
> done, but I think we should create a new kind of structure for
> informal groups of Wikimedians, of which WMBR could be the first.
> These could be groups in a country that doesn't have or want a chapter
> or groups that don't have an obvious geographic association. What
> relationship this new structure should have with the proposed WikiPods
> (which, incidentally, need a better name!), I don't know, but there
> probably will be a relationship of some kind. We need to have a
> thorough discussion about what role these groups should play and what
> should be required of them (for example, should they be required to
> designate a leader or committee of leaders in order to facilitate
> coordination with the rest of the WM movement? should they be required
> to maintain a list of members? etc.).
>
> I'm not sure what forum these discussions (regarding WMBR specifically
> and the concept of informal groups generally) should take place in. I
> think internal-l is probably suitable for the WMBR discussion (I have
> CC'ed Thomas de Souza Buckup from WMBR since none of them seem to be
> on internal-l - perhaps some of them should be, whatever form WMBR
> ends up taking), but the more general discussion probably needs
> broader discussion, but let's start here and at least work out what
> the questions are that need to be answered.
>
> Everyone, please give your views.
>
> Tom/Tango
>
> 1.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters#Existing_chapters
> 2.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requirements_for_future_chapters
>
> --
> Enviado do meu celular
>
> Thomas de Souza Buckup
>
thomasdesouzabuckup@gmail.com
> +55 11 3477-2834
> +55 11 9213-3931
> - ... -...
>
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