I have pondered in the past why European countries have tended to have a stronger culture of face to face meetups than the United States. I have considered and mostly rejected some theories, and settled for myself on what I think is the most likely explanation. One theory is that Americans aren't as sociable as Europeans. I know of no evidence for this, and if there are any differences they are surely quite minor. Americans do get together for all kinds of meetings and social events. A related theory is that the availability of public transportation in Europe means people can get together more easily. Again, I don't see this as being particularly relevant. We have cheaper gas and drive a lot more, and in terms of people getting together with friends, I have not seen this as a major barrier. A completely different theory is that chapters arose first and most strongly in non-English Europe because the Foundation was not there for them, and they needed to get things done. This theory is likely partly true, and especially for the Germans it seems to ring true to me. On the other hand, let's be honest, until very recently, the Foundation was not there for anyone :), and we got everything done by just getting things done. Finally, I think there is the matter of the "language compactness". And this to me is most persuasive. For the most part, non-English languages are more "compact" than English. For an extreme example, consider Dutch: virtually all Dutch speakers can make it to anywhere in Holland within 2-3 hours by train. This means that when a meetup happens, everyone who is anyone is likely to be there. In English, though, we are so geographically dispersed that in a major city like San Francisco, you could go to a meetup and meet people with whom you have never interacted on-wiki. This means that meetups are not automatically a clean continuation of on-wiki work and friendships, but a matter of meeting new people (with whom you may have few interests in common, other than a general interest in Wikipedia/Wikimedia) and making new friendships. I suspect this means that English-speaking chapters (including in the UK, which is a small country but not a compact language!) will have a slightly different character as compared to chapters based on more compact languages. This analysis, if true, suggests something or other about chapters in the US, but since I am not sure what, I will stop here. :-) --Jimbo _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf

I think there is some validity to your last point. I went to one meetup in San Francisco and walked away thinking, what exactly are those folks trying to do? We had no real purpose, or maybe I missed it, and maybe folks were just looking for social experience. an agenda sounds too formal, but what else are we there for? Besides, the insiders who seemed to already know each other kind of huddled off from the crowd. I had two issues relating to my own experience as a wikipedia content provider that I wanted to talk about, and one was answered quickly and the other never came up. Then the assembled went to a restaurant and I hopped on BART somewhat perplexed. So, if this is a community, some form or shared world-view or acknowledged reason for meeting would be helpful, and I've got my ideas.

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Hank Chapot <hchapot(a)igc.org> wrote: One thing about meetups -- at least as I'm familiar with them -- is that the agenda (formal or otherwise) should always be open. If you'd like to run a gathering focussed on content issues, then by all means! I think a lot of people would be interested in that. Really, just calling such a meeting and doing the minimal planning work is all that is needed to make it happen. I think meetups can become whatever people want it to be. I have always enjoyed purely social meetups -- just as a chance to meet and chat with like-minded people -- but that is certainly not the only alternative. As for the last meetup at the ferry building, it was rather distracted -- which is partly if not mostly my fault, for not picking a better venue and for not trying to keep the group together longer. In a quieter place (a restaurant with a private room, an office, a coffeeshop or library room) people would certainly have more engaged and focussed conversations. Speaking of ... it's about time for the next one, no? cheers, phoebe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-SF mailing list Wikimedia-SF(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf