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Progress Report 2017-18

The Cunctator

6 Jun 2017 6 Jun '17

12:32 a.m.

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James Heilman

6 Jun 6 Jun

12:40 a.m.

Well "fair use" applies, but if the amount of content used goes beyond fair use than it needs to be indicated that the content is under an open license. J On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind to the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of Wikipedia content into non-free publications? E.g. Graphiq https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University and Google https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/ https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that doesn't free the company from following CC BY-SA. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine

The Cunctator

1:32 a.m.

Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus for their results. On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:40 PM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind to the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of

Wikipedia

content into non-free publications? E.g. Graphiq https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University and Google https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/ https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that doesn't free the company from following CC BY-SA. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Gerard Meijssen

1:43 a.m.

Hoi, Yes, probably and in the process they do exactly what we aim to achieve; share in the sum of all knowledge. What they do not do is claim copyright. They are the number one referral site for our traffic. You may be right in a narrow sense but it will ill serve us to do something about it. Thanks, GerardM On 5 June 2017 at 19:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus for their results. On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:40 PM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Well "fair use" applies, but if the amount of content used goes beyond

fair

use than it needs to be indicated that the content is under an open license. J On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:32 AM, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've been a bit out of the loop on this for a while, so please be kind

the oldbie - what's current Wikimedia policy on adaptive reuse of

Wikipedia > content into non-free publications? > > E.g. Graphiq > https://www.graphiq.com/terms-and-conditions > http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1929/Harvard-University > > and Google > https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/ > https://www.google.com/search?q=harvard+university > > I recognize that Google gives Wikimedia a lot of money, even if the > foundation isn't very transparent about that, but I'd think that

doesn't

free the company from following CC BY-SA. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

geni

3:03 a.m.

On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus for their results.

However due to the way their output is structured it falls under "you can't copyright facts". -- geni

James Heilman

12:28 p.m.

It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use). Plus Google provide attribution in a lot of their results. J On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia corpus for their results.

However due to the way their output is structured it falls under "you can't copyright facts". -- geni _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine

The Cunctator

28 Jan 28 Jan

3:34 a.m.

The copyright requirement isn't attribution; it's attribution and copyleft retention for derived works. On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:28 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use). Plus Google provide attribution in a lot of their results. J On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia

corpus

for their results.

James Salsman

8:12 a.m.

Attribution is often considered impractical, but providing the source date along with e.g. the article name can be used to derive the attribution, so it should be required. It's not just a good idea to require this information from content re-users like Amazon, Apple, and Google, but doing so will help encourage those who find issues to edit. If the Foundation doesn't make attribution or at least article date a requirement, then they are actively opposing editor recruitment. On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:34 PM, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

The copyright requirement isn't attribution; it's attribution and copyleft retention for derived works. On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:28 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:

It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use). Plus Google provide attribution in a lot of their results. J On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia

corpus

for their results.

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Renée Bagslint

8:42 p.m.

Does the Foundation have any standing to enforce the copyright, since that belongs to the individual contributors? On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:12 AM, James Salsman <jsalsman(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

The copyright requirement isn't attribution; it's attribution and

copyleft

retention for derived works. On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:28 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use). Plus > Google provide attribution in a lot of their results. > > J > > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia > corpus > > > for their results. > > > > > > However due to the way their output is structured it falls under "you > > can't copyright facts". > > > > > > -- > > geni > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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The Cunctator

29 Jan 29 Jan

11:19 p.m.

Related, has there ever been any copyright enforcement for Wikipedia, or is its copyleft a joke and it's functionally purely public domain? On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Renée Bagslint <reneebagslint(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Does the Foundation have any standing to enforce the copyright, since that belongs to the individual contributors? On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:12 AM, James Salsman <jsalsman(a)gmail.com> wrote:

The copyright requirement isn't attribution; it's attribution and

copyleft > retention for derived works. > > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:28 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> >> It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use). Plus >> Google provide attribution in a lot of their results. >> >> J >> >> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire Wikipedia >> corpus >> > > for their results. >> > >> > >> > However due to the way their output is structured it falls under

"you

>> > can't copyright facts". >> > >> > >> > -- >> > geni >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe>

>> > >> >> >> >> -- >> James Heilman >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >> >> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/

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Samuel Klein

30 Jan 30 Jan

10:29 a.m.

Editors used to do plenty by hand, if you recall. The on-wiki list of mirrors and forks had compliance info, and individuals would reach out and ask for license changes or takedowns. Since having a legal team I don't know how these have happened, or which individuals have made such claims & requests. On Jan 29, 2018 10:19 AM, "The Cunctator" <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Does the Foundation have any standing to enforce the copyright, since

that

belongs to the individual contributors? On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:12 AM, James Salsman <jsalsman(a)gmail.com> wrote:

The copyright requirement isn't attribution; it's attribution and

copyleft > retention for derived works. > > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:28 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>

wrote: > > > >> It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use).

Plus

> >> Google provide attribution in a lot of their results. > >> > >> J > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 1:03 PM, geni <geniice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > On 5 June 2017 at 18:32, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> >> > > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire

Wikipedia

>> corpus >> > > for their results. >> > >> > >> > However due to the way their output is structured it falls under

"you

>> > can't copyright facts". >> > >> > >> > -- >> > geni >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> James Heilman > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > >> > >> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe>

> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

The Cunctator

11:24 a.m.

Thanks. I've added entries for Google Knowledge Graph and various Google derivative products, which have varying quality of attribution and license information and license. None appear to be fully compliant. On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:29 PM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Related, has there ever been any copyright enforcement for Wikipedia, or

its copyleft a joke and it's functionally purely public domain? On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Renée Bagslint <reneebagslint(a)gmail.com wrote:

Does the Foundation have any standing to enforce the copyright, since

that > belongs to the individual contributors? > > On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:12 AM, James Salsman <jsalsman(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Attribution is often considered impractical, but providing the source > > date along with e.g. the article name can be used to derive the > > attribution, so it should be required. It's not just a good idea to > > require this information from content re-users like Amazon, Apple,

and

Google, but doing so will help encourage those who find issues to edit. If the Foundation doesn't make attribution or at least article date a requirement, then they are actively opposing editor recruitment. On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:34 PM, The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The copyright requirement isn't attribution; it's attribution and copyleft > retention for derived works. > > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:28 AM, James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>

wrote: > > > >> It search result only contains a snippet (and thus is fair use).

Plus

wrote:

> >> > > Both Google and Graphiq are using pretty much the entire

Wikipedia

>> corpus >> > > for their results. >> > >> > >> > However due to the way their output is structured it falls under

"you

>> > can't copyright facts". >> > >> > >> > -- >> > geni >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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Strainu

7 Jun 7 Jun

9:11 p.m.

2017-06-05 19:32 GMT+03:00 The Cunctator <cunctator(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

I think you're bang on one of the main topics of the copyright reform discussion currently happening in Europe - should people and companies be allowed to link and/or display a small part of a copyrighted work? I haven't followed the issue in the last few months, but the latest proposals from the Commission basically meant no more links or excerpts (experts: please bear this oversimplification, I know the wording is not exactly this). AFAIK our public policy team has the opposite position - that such reuse should be permitted. Remember, we're also content consumers, not just content producers, so such legislation would also hit us hard. If you want to know more about these debates, a good place to start would be the public policy portal [1]. Also check out the wiki page [2] and the mailing list [3]. Regards, Strainu [1] https://policy.wikimedia.org/ [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Public_policy [3] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy

...

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geni
Gerard Meijssen
James Heilman
James Salsman
Renée Bagslint
Samuel Klein
Strainu
The Cunctator