I am happy, that Voro got its own code and I fully support to move 'fiu-vro' to 'vro'. But I think this also demonstrates, that ISO is to some degree out of touch with reality or at least quite inconsistent with its codes. Why did they declare 'et' to be synonymous to the macrolanguage? 'et' was always intended to mean 'Standard Estonian' in earlier revisions of ISO 639 (cause ISO 639 was created in a time when non-standard languages and minorities did not or were not supposed to produce books [and the internet wasn't invented]. There was no need for codes other than standard languages). 'de' for example is synonymous to 'deu' (Standard German), although there are several codes like 'bar', 'gsw' or 'ksh' that would fit under the roof of a 'de' macrolanguage just in the same way as 'vro' fits under the roof of an 'et' macrolanguage. But they are handled differently nonetheless. I oppose to move et.wikipedia to ekk.wikipedia and I think this would be a really bad service to the et.wikipedia community. Marcus Buck Gerard Meijssen hett schreven: Standard _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

It is nice that you oppose, there are reasons why it might be a bad idea, but the ones that I know are not the ones you put forward. A reason why a change would be good is that it will prevent confusion.

Gerard Meijssen wrote: Come on, nobody is confused about what language Estonian is. If giving a language code to a local dialect means we have to rename all URLs for one of the major Wikipedias (Estonian is the 34th biggest, Bokmål is the 13th biggest), this only means we have to oppose all future assignments of new ISO language codes. It is OK to use the standard when naming new Wikipedias, but it's not OK to suddenly change a well-known address. We're here to spread free knowledge. That is not helped by renaming all of our URLs just because of some random ISO standard change. The no and et Wikipedias should be kept as they are.

Kjetil Lenes wrote: I'm not talking about dialects or legal standing. I'm talking about renaming thousands of URLs, breaking incoming links from other websites, for no good reason. Once assigned, good URLs such as no.wikipedia.org and et.wikipedia.org should not be changed. ISO can decide tomorrow that English should be xy and French should be ab. We shouldn't follow such changes. It is a totally different issue that we consult ISO when we open a new project.

When we were to move away from a set of URL's from et to ekk, a generic redirect from et to ekk will suffice because there will be a one on one relation. The et named articles will never be used for anything else. This is true because this is how the standard works.

Gerard Meijssen wrote: The very point of the suggestion to change no.wikipedia into nb.wikipedia is that Nynorsk extremists want to *deny* the Bokmål majority the privilege of using the common "no" code as theirs. The agenda of these extremists has no room for allowing redirects from no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo to nb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo, because that would perpetuate the Bokmål oppression. In the discussions, even the word "occupation" has been used. In their mind, the no.* URL should force the reader to pick either the Bokmål or Nynorsk article. That is, to stop and consider that there are more versions of Norwegian than Bokmål. There must be no default. If there is a default (a redirect), then today's naming would seem OK. As long as we recognize Nynorsk speakers some "right" to claim that "no" is theirs (too), our naming of sites will continue to get hijacked by such extremists. Our only escape is to refuse to recognize the political meaning of language codes in our domain names, and instead treat them as being just domain names that once assigned should not be changed unless for really good reasons. (Changing fiu-vro to the shorter vro can be a good reason, but changing et to ekk is not.) -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l