[Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

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MZMcBride

21 Jan 2012 21 Jan '12

11:13 p.m.

A new policy should always be announced on foundation-l; forwarding. MZMcBride ------ Forwarded Message From: Sumana Harihareswara <sumanah(a)wikimedia.org> Organization: Wikimedia Foundation Reply-To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 16:30:07 -0800 To: Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy Thanks to all of you for your feedback on this. We've now finalized the policy and it now lives at https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy -- Sumana Harihareswara Volunteer Development Coordinator Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ------ End of Forwarded Message

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MZMcBride

21 Jan 21 Jan

11:32 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

Sumana Harihareswara wrote:

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Thanks to all of you for your feedback on this. We've now finalized the policy and it now lives at https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy

I don't think the Volunteer Development Coordinator (or any Wikimedia Foundation employee) has the power or authority to institute policies like this, particularly Wikimedia-wide. I'm inclined to move this into Sumana's user space for now. It seems like a straightforward policy to have, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to have an accompanying Board resolution, though some of the language will undoubtedly need to be tweaked first. Thoughts? MZMcBride

Steven Walling

11:50 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

On Jan 21, 2012 2:33 PM, "MZMcBride" <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

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Sumana Harihareswara wrote:

Thanks to all of you for your feedback on this. We've now finalized the policy and it now lives at https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy

...

straightforward policy to have, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to

have

...

an accompanying Board resolution, though some of the language will undoubtedly need to be tweaked first. Thoughts?

If a policy makes good sense, we clearly need it, and feedback about the text is mostly positive, then we should adopt it. Rejecting a good idea because of process wonkery is stupid. Sumana is not declaring that she gets to force arbitrary rules on everyone whenever she wants. She is solving a problem for us.

...

MZMcBride _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

David Gerard

11:51 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

On 21 January 2012 22:50, Steven Walling <steven.walling(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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If a policy makes good sense, we clearly need it, and feedback about the text is mostly positive, then we should adopt it. Rejecting a good idea because of process wonkery is stupid.

+1 - d.

MZMcBride

11:57 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

David Gerard wrote:

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On 21 January 2012 22:50, Steven Walling <steven.walling(a)gmail.com> wrote:

If a policy makes good sense, we clearly need it, and feedback about the text is mostly positive, then we should adopt it. Rejecting a good idea because of process wonkery is stupid.

David, I'm a bit surprised that you think a policy that includes the language "Sexual language and imagery is not appropriate for any conference venue or talks." is a good idea. I think it'd be difficult to have a discussion about Wikimedia Commons with a rule like this. Was this what you were +1ing? MZMcBride

Erik Moeller

22 Jan 22 Jan

12:12 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:57 PM, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

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I think it'd be difficult to have a discussion about Wikimedia Commons with a rule like this.

Right now, the policy is pretty much framed around technical events like hackathons, because that was what motivated its creation. In that context, explicit presentation content is definitely an edge case. It's less of an edge case for general Wikimedia events. There have been efforts to generalize these kinds of policies by stating that explicit content is acceptable if it fits the content and the purpose of the presentation, and if the presentation is clearly marked as such so that attendees can choose not to go. I think we should try to find some language to that effect for a generalized version of the friendly space policy. Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

Ryan Kaldari

12:15 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

1]On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 2:57 PM, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

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This is purely a policy for tech conferences. Other types of events, such as GLAM conferences are developing their own versions which have different language as appropriate.[1] It is certainly possible to discuss technical issues surrounding Commons without using porny presentations.[2] 1. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAMcamp_DC/Friendly_space_policy 2. http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Porny_presentation Ryan Kaldari

David Gerard

11:32 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

On 21 January 2012 22:57, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

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DFTT. - d.

MZMcBride

21 Jan 21 Jan

11:54 p.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

Steven Walling wrote:

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If a policy makes good sense, we clearly need it, and feedback about the text is mostly positive, then we should adopt it. Rejecting a good idea because of process wonkery is stupid.

Really? Does this apply to discussions on any Wikimedia wiki at any time with any group of people? This way forward certainly has the potential to create some interesting policies. :-) MZMcBride

Kim Bruning

22 Jan 22 Jan

4:27 p.m.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 05:54:34PM -0500, MZMcBride wrote:

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Steven Walling wrote:

If a policy makes good sense, we clearly need it, and feedback about the text is mostly positive, then we should adopt it. Rejecting a good idea because of process wonkery is stupid.

Really? Does this apply to discussions on any Wikimedia wiki at any time with any group of people? This way forward certainly has the potential to create some interesting policies. :-)

I thought this approach had never really been deprecated. (Just under-used in recent years) Stealing procedure from a different well-known venue: "Without objection, I move that this become policy." sincerely, Kim Bruning --

Federico Leva (Nemo)

12:01 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

MZMcBride, 21/01/2012 23:32:

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Sumana Harihareswara wrote:

Thanks to all of you for your feedback on this. We've now finalized the policy and it now lives at https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy

I don't think the Volunteer Development Coordinator (or any Wikimedia Foundation employee) has the power or authority to institute policies like this, particularly Wikimedia-wide.

It's basically statement of obvious (for us, but not for everyone) principles plus some self-regulation, so I don't see any problem besides a lack of clarity which might make wmfwiki quite confusing. Nemo

Samuel Klein

12:19 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 5:32 PM, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

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Sumana Harihareswara wrote: > Thanks to all of you for your feedback on this. We've now finalized the > policy and it now lives at > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy

Thank you for working on this, Sumana.

...

I don't think the Volunteer Development Coordinator (or any Wikimedia Foundation employee) has the power or authority to institute policies like this, particularly Wikimedia-wide.

Perhaps you misread the width of this policy. Staff can and generally do set policies affecting WMF-run processes and events. Most have not to date been recorded on the wmfwiki; it is good to see that change.

...

I'm inclined to move this into Sumana's user space for now. It seems like a straightforward policy to have, so it shouldn't be too much trouble to have an accompanying Board resolution, though some of the language will undoubtedly need to be tweaked first.

Mr. Gregory Varnum

12:33 a.m.

I fully supported this policy's development and feel volunteers impacted by it were directly involved in its authoring. Should the intro be modified to make it clearer this is for tech conferences? Although I personally didn't find that confusing. MZMcBride - I guess I'm unclear what the purpose of this thread is. Just a FYI or are you asking for something specific to be done? I'm not sure how you got confused about its scope given the listserv you forwarded this from which outlined all this in great depth already. A separate discussion - not on this thread - about similar or broader policies for use outside the Wikimedia developer community seems appropriate and I'd agree this list is the right forum for that discussion. I don't think it's the best place for a discussion on this particular policy. -Greg ____________ Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for any typos. A more detailed response may be sent later. On Jan 21, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 5:32 PM, MZMcBride <z(a)mzmcbride.com> wrote:

Sumana Harihareswara wrote: > Thanks to all of you for your feedback on this. We've now finalized the > policy and it now lives at > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy

Thank you for working on this, Sumana.

I don't think the Volunteer Development Coordinator (or any Wikimedia Foundation employee) has the power or authority to institute policies like this, particularly Wikimedia-wide.

It is fine where it is. As for the right place to post comments or suggestions related to such policies: we should turn on comments for the talk pages on the wmfwiki. Most if not all of the pages there could use some sort of polishing and updating over time. Sam. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Federico Leva (Nemo)

12:59 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] FW: [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

Mr. Gregory Varnum, 22/01/2012 00:33:

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MZMcBride - I guess I'm unclear what the purpose of this thread is. Just a FYI or are you asking for something specific to be done? I'm not sure how you got confused about its scope given the listserv you forwarded this from which outlined all this in great depth already.

Gregory Varnum

1:35 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

So then perhaps we should modify the intro as I suggested below. :) Right now the intro says "and applies to Foundation-organized activities." - what's a wording that would be more helpful to folks? Also, I don't assume everyone is - I was speaking to MZMcBride. -greg On Jan 21, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

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Mr. Gregory Varnum, 22/01/2012 00:33:

You seem to assume that everybody reading that page will come from such a thread, but it's in the main space and linked from https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Policies , so this is definitely not the case. Nemo _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Theo10011

1:52 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

Actually, what is WMF technical events specifically? It would be helpful to mention what those are. Would this bleed over to Wikimania? That is the largest conference WMF organizes. It is a bit unclear about the scope. It states that it applies to "Foundation-organized activities" and then "Wikimedia Foundation technical events". I assume Foundation-organized activities have a much larger scope than technical events like Hackathons. Regards Theo On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 10:35 PM, Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:

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Mr. Gregory Varnum, 22/01/2012 00:33: > MZMcBride - I guess I'm unclear what the purpose of this thread is.

Just a FYI or are you asking for something specific to be done? I'm not sure how you got confused about its scope given the listserv you forwarded this from which outlined all this in great depth already.

You seem to assume that everybody reading that page will come from such

a thread, but it's in the main space and linked from https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Policies , so this is definitely not the case.

Nemo _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Kirill Lokshin

2:32 a.m.

New subject: [Foundation-l] [Wikitech-l] proposed tech conference anti-harassment policy

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Theo10011 <de10011(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Would this bleed over to Wikimania? That is the largest conference WMF organizes.

Strictly speaking, Wikimania is organized by a local organizing team/entity (which, in recent years, has always been a chapter) rather than by the WMF, so the Foundation's event policies wouldn't necessarily apply unless they were put into place by the local entity as well. As far as I'm aware, the Foundation hasn't (yet?) asked Wikimedia DC to put this particular policy into effect for Wikimania 2012. Cheers, Kirill -- Kirill Lokshin Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc

Tobias

12:18 p.m.

On 01/21/2012 11:13 PM, MZMcBride wrote:

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https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy

"[…] regardless of […] preferred Creative Commons license […]" I use the GNU General Public License v3 / GNU Free Documentation License v1.3, as commanded by Saint IGNUcius, you insensitive clod! Unfree licenses such as CC-BY-ND or CC-BY-NC or worst of all CC-BY-NC-ND shall perish! Freedom prevails! -- User:Church of emacs

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participants (13)

David Gerard
Erik Moeller
Federico Leva (Nemo)
Gregory Varnum
Kim Bruning
Kirill Lokshin
Mr. Gregory Varnum
MZMcBride
Ryan Kaldari
Samuel Klein
Steven Walling
Theo10011
Tobias