23 Mar
2018
23 Mar
'18
7:46 p.m.
Dear all
To confirm, the Affiliations Committee did seek Wikimedia UK's perspective
on the creation of *Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru*. Whilst the
user group will be a separate entity to Wikimedia UK, and not a subsidiary
as such, we are anticipating a lot of joint working and are currently
developing a Memorandum of Understanding to clarify the relationship and to
guide our work together. Robin Owain will continue to be employed full time
to develop and manage Wikimedia UK’s programme in Wales, working with
external partners and the community to help deliver our strategy with a
focus on Wales and the Welsh language. As part of this role he will work
closely with the User Group as to support and develop the Wikimedia
community in Wales, facilitating and delivering partnership events and
activities and acting as the key contact point between the User Group and
the Wikimedia UK Chapter.
Of course, this is a new situation for us so we will continue to reflect on
and review what's working, and any issues that arise, over the next year.
Best wishes
Lucy
On 20 March 2018 at 16:13, <wikimedia-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru
(Kirill Lokshin)
2. Re: Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Fæ)
3. Re: Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru
(Kirill Lokshin)
4. Re: Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Fæ)
5. Re: Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru
(Jean-Philippe Béland)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 09:03:53 -0600
From: Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned
Wicimedia Cymru
Message-ID:
<CAA8pnFPGOucqKrmdmGg01yG7A3nK5CQPMzSM71O3ORkMHfxPSg@mail.
gmail.com>
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Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted as
legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).
Any questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
unsubscribe>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:29:15 +0000
From: Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned
Wicimedia Cymru
Message-ID:
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gmail.com>
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On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
group. However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered to
speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently, any questions regarding the
chapter's legal position should be posed to the chapter, not to us.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:09:21 +0000
From: Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned
Wicimedia Cymru
Message-ID:
<CAH7nnD2x83ShSe0drumGRyThohcRZY3A-Z_atiBLdP7rvTwvFQ@mail.
gmail.com>
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On 20 March 2018 at 15:36, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru
Thanks for the link, that's great. It would be super to include a link
to the relevant resolution when making announcements.
Unfortunately your emails seem in conflict with the resolution. The
statement by the Affiliations Committee links to the meta page to
define the reviewed scope, the words used are "The scope of the group,
which can be found on their meta page" and then gives a link to the
same page I used previously and read that the User Group represents
WMUK. In fact there are no other links to any other document that can
be interpreted as "officially" publishing the scope of the new user
group.
Consequently there is no ambiguity that the AffCom approval was
literally for a regional User Group with a stated objective to
represent the national Chapter. The exact words are "Cooperate with
and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales".
It is worth noting that the italicized sentence in the very brief
summary appears to be intended to be a direct quote from the meta
page, however it is a rephrasing which turns the sentence into an
objective for the new User Group when the phrasing on the original
page is a description of members (i.e. not the group itself). It is
not stated whether the interpreted objective was part of the UG
application, or someone else's interpretation of the published scope.
This seems misleading unless the meta page is rephrased to include the
statement of scope as explicitly that. This may seem a fine point, but
there exact words that officially define a new Affiliate or User Group
seem worth getting precise so everyone understands what has been
authorized.
Thanks,
Fae
Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
group. However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered to
--
Lucy Crompton-Reid
Chief Executive
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 203 372 0762
*Wikimedia UK* is the national chapter for the global Wikimedia open
knowledge movement, and a registered charity. We rely on donations from
individuals to support our work to make knowledge open for all. Have you
considered supporting Wikimedia? https://donate.wikimedia.org.uk
Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered
No. 6741827
Registered Charity No.1144513
Registered Office Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London
SE1 0NZ
The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.
Support the request that AffCom share their
understanding of the scope
and authority of the announced User Group.
From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
this.
As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.
The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.
Links
1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_
Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia
On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <philip.kopetzky(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Kirill!
>
> It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering that
> this sets a precedence in the worldwide community. For example, UG
Wales
> states that they "cooperate with and
represent Wikimedia UK in Wales" -
> does this mean that we are now accepting UGs within chapters? Is this
UG
supposed
to be able to apply for grants, despite its overlap with WMUK?
Best,
Philip
On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <shlomif(a)shlomifish.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
recognized
> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru
(Wikimedia Community User
Group
> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group.
The group aims to promote the
> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of Wikimedia
> > projects and content in the Welsh language.
> >
> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >
>
> congratulations!
>
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
Group_Wales
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
>> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= >
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
>
--
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_______________________________________________
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Descriptions of user group activities on Meta
shouldn't be interpreted as
legal documents under UK law (or any other legal code, for that matter).
Hi Kirill,
In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
the UG application?
Any questions regarding potential legal
implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
within the scope of the proposed new UG.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
Thanks,
Fae, volunteer
--
faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Fæ
<faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Support the request that AffCom share their understanding of the scope
> and authority of the announced User Group.
>
> From the wording of "represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"[1], the UG is
> not independent of WMUK and consequently acts as a Chapter subsidiary.
> As far as I am aware, there is no other regional based UG which does
> this.
>
> As a corollary, the representation has legal implications for UK
> Charity. WMUK must have both responsibility and the authority to
> monitor and control how they are represented by the UG. It is not
> clear from the meta web page or the community vote how this will work,
> apart from the implicit assumption that funding paid to UG projects is
> effectively managed as a WMUK continuing programme. Presumably the UG
> will not be requesting funds from the WMF or via the FDC process
> separate from WMUK's FDC procedure.
>
> The original vote at the Welsh Wikipedia compared the aims to that of
> the Basque UG.[2] However based on their scope, the Basque UG does not
> officially represent any other affiliate or Chapter.
>
> Links
> 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Wales
> 2. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicipedia:Sefydlu_Gr%C5%B5p_
> Defnyddwyr_Wicimedia
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 00:10, Philip Kopetzky <philip.kopetzky(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Kirill!
> >
> > It would be really helpful to outline these kind of decisions with
> > arguments/deliberations that AffCom decided to follow, considering
that
> > this sets a precedence in the worldwide
community. For example, UG
Wales
> > states that they "cooperate with
and represent Wikimedia UK in Wales"
-
> > does this mean that we are now accepting
UGs within chapters? Is this
UG
> > supposed to be able to apply for grants,
despite its overlap with
WMUK?
> >
> > Best,
> > Philip
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 at 15:44, Shlomi Fish <shlomif(a)shlomifish.org>
wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:34 -0400
> >> Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi everyone!
> >> >
> >> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
> recognized
> >> > Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned Wicimedia Cymru (Wikimedia Community User
> Group
> >> > Wales) [1] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to promote the
> >> > Wikimedia movement in Wales and support the development of
Wikimedia
> >> > projects and content in the
Welsh language.
> >> >
> >> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user
group!
> >> >
> >>
> >> congratulations!
> >>
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Kirill Lokshin
> >> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >> >
> >> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_
> Group_Wales
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:
> >> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=
unsubscribe>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
> >> My Favourite FOSS - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/favourite/
> >>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 09:36:46 -0600
From: Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned
Wicimedia Cymru
Message-ID:
<CAA8pnFNi-q5fFi-kHpONiYScXn=a5nnFB2Hs7TJO0HYsnu1aNw@mail.
gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin
<kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be interpreted
as
> legal documents under UK law (or any other
legal code, for that
matter).
Hi Kirill,
In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
the UG application?
The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
found at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/
Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru
.
Any
questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
within the scope of the proposed new UG.
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ
<faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be
interpreted as
> > legal documents under UK law (or any
other legal code, for that
matter).
Hi Kirill,
In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
the UG application?
The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
found at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/ Any
questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
within the scope of the proposed new UG.
speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently,
any questions regarding
the
chapter's legal position should be posed to
the chapter, not to us.
For the sake of openness and transparency, can you provide a link to
where the endorsement and any questions raised are published? It is
not included with the AffCom resolution.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
>
_______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:12:54 +0000
From: Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland(a)wikimedia.ca>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of Grŵp Defnyddwyr Cymuned
Wicimedia Cymru
Message-ID:
<CADD2uPgOssSOYfX6ZfgFRCsEz4UFv38Jc9i=kNV1cA-dj0oQoQ@mail.
gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I agree with Kirill, from the WMF point of view, as long as the chapter is
informed and endorsed the creation of a user group within its covered
territory, the WMF did its due diligence. After that, it is the
responsibility of the chapter to do its homework about the local legal
framework before endorsing the creation of the user group.
That being said, I would also be interested in hearing from Wikimedia UK's
perspective on this new user group and the reasoning behind it.
Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
Coordinator, Wikimedians of North American Indigenous Languages User Group
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:37 AM Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:29 AM, Fæ
<faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 March 2018 at 15:03, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Descriptions of user group activities on Meta shouldn't be
interpreted
> as
> > legal documents under UK law (or any
other legal code, for that
> matter).
> >
> > Hi Kirill,
> >
> > In the spirit of an open and transparent process, could you please
> > provide a link to the scope of the new approved User Group is
> > published, as the one on Meta is not the one that AffCom reviewed with
> > the UG application?
> >
>
> The Affiliations Committee publishes all of our application review and
> approval resolutions on Meta; the one for the group in question can be
> found at
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/
Resolutions/Recognition_Grŵp_Defnyddwyr_Cymuned_Wicimedia_Cymru
.
Your implication is entirely incorrect; AffCom consulted with -- and
received an endorsement from -- Wikimedia UK prior to approving the user
group. However, we are neither experts in UK charity law nor empowered
to
Any
questions regarding potential legal implications for Wikimedia UK
should, of course, be directed to the chapter itself.
This brush-off is surprising, with the clear implication that AffCom
has not approached WMUK with any question. I was mistaken in believing
that AffCom had a responsibility to consider obvious legal
implications, before approving a User Group that is granted the right
to use official logos and the name "Wikipedia" and its language
variants when advertising their events. It is disappointing to see
that AffCom does not see their official process as needing to address
these areas, which may well be a barrier to direct funding, legal
recognition or represent a risk to other named pre-existing Affiliates
within the scope of the proposed new UG.
speak on behalf of Wikimedia UK; consequently,
any questions regarding
the
chapter's legal position should be posed to
the chapter, not to us.
>
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
>
_______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>
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