Dear Gabriel,
OK, I won't post here anymore since I'm not welcome.
I'm just a little surprised some can tell things that are terribly hurtful
and agressive (and just false) without any problem and that I'm supposed to
be silenced because my wife is on the board.
Violence is really a problem we have to deal with in our communities and
I'm afraid this shows the solution is yet to be found.
Thus, I would love to discuss things with you (why "critical of the ED" ?
More largely, why can't an ED stay more than a few years in any chapter?
Isn't there a general issue between some members and employees?) but it
won't be on this list - you know where to find me if you please - but I
guess you won't since it's "maneuvering" and no good faith will be
assumed
:-/
The last few lines one more time makes people think the chapter was and is
not professional. Managing several employees and an important budget, the
chapter has always worked consulting lawyers and respecting the law ad
litteram. I'm not even talking about medicals doctors, who also have
opinions, alas, on what happens :-/
So, this will be my last message on the subject, leaving the ground to...
always the same people.
Best
Rémi
On 3 August 2017 at 14:02, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel(a)thullen.com> wrote:
I will bi going to the September 9 GA, and for the
moment I still am a
member of Wikimedia France.
I am posting here in spite of the risk, because I want to set a few things
straight.
25% of the French chapter asked for this GA knowing full well that the
annual GA was scheduled a month later in October. A few of the most vocal
opponents have been expelled from the chapter, some of them for failure to
pay their dues before the deadline. Other active French wikipedians have
had their admission refused. In spite of all that, a quarter of the members
asked to hold this extra GA. I my experience, this is a serious crisis and
the current French chapter leadership cannot ignore that fact.
We cannot immediately qualify any dissenting as "aggressive behavior" or
"harassment". It has become quite impossible for current members to express
their views for fear of being expelled from the chapter, or being accused
of harassing the chapter president or senior staff - I do make a
distinction between the ED and the staff who are having a hard time and who
work under the risk of being fired if they refuse to obey orders (like what
has just happened to Jules). We all are very appreciative and thankful for
the work done by the "employees", we are quite critical of the ED.
Florence is quite right about being concerned about the very sudden
increase in membership, and I fully suspect that these new members will be
at the GA in September. Before being involved in Wikimedia, I was quite
involved in labor unions (and still am), so I have seen this type of
maneuvering before. It makes me quite sad to see this happen to a Wikimedia
Chapter, but that is probably because I am much too much of an idealist.
I will quote Rémi Mathis:
"This is a few people, for various reasons, usualy very personal and very
bad ones. And those people refuse to acknowledge reality, even when the
board explains everything, even when lawyers explains what can and cannot
be done within a chapter.
I'm really worried about the behaviour of those people, and the future of
Wikimedia France - since the harassment could lead to prosecution from
employees."
For one, I think that Rémi should steer clear of this type of discussion,
because he has a very clear COI. Sorry Rémi, you are not an "ordinary
member".
Now what really disturbs me is that Rémi tries to discredit the members who
are asking for a GA by implying that they have an agenda, that they are
very few, and that they "refuse to acknowledge reality". As a labor union
leader, I have had exactly the same accusations leveled at me. And I hope
that Rémi knows what he is talking about when he speaks of harassment,
because I have never experienced a case where one of the labor unions I
worked with had to pay a company executive compensation for "harassment".
Best regards
Gabe
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Rémi Mathis <mathis.remi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is typically the kind agressive behaviour we
don't need right now.
Everybody in the chapter knows that Marie-Alice Mathis and Rémi Mathis
are
wife and husband, it has always been clearly
stated and we always refused
to be at the board at the same time to avoid conflicts of interest.
Now what? Do you think I can't have opinions of my own because I'm not a
member of the board, or she can't have because she's a manipulated woman?
We are *two individuals* and we do have *two brains*. This kind of
allegations are not acceptable and the smugness of "Nuff said" really
hurtful!
I am an ordinary member... but I think I have a certain experience of
what's going on
1/ as a long-time member of the board (2009-2014) and chair (2011-2014),
who hired most of the employees, managed them, organized a lot of what
made
Wikimedia France one of the biggest and most
sucessful chapters... and a
member still really involved in the life of the community
2/ as someone, yes, who sees her wife spending hours every night, trying
to
explain things to people who don't want to
hear or understand. Like, you
know, when you ask a question about a fact, I answer to you with a
*checkable fact*. And you answer "I don't agree" (not even "it's
not
true",
because everybody could check that, but "I
don't agree")...
I can't even understand why you post things like at all, but even less on
an international list where people don't know what happens and, for most
of
them, can't read French.
This really makes me sad and frustrated
Rémi
On 3 August 2017 at 12:47, Devouard (gmail) <fdevouard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> And for the sake of proper understanding... Rémi Mathis is the husband
of
the
current vice-chair of Wikimedia France.
Nuff said.
Florence
Le 03/08/2017 à 12:17, Rémi Mathis a écrit :
> Dear all,
>
> As a member - and former chair - of Wikimedia France, this kind of
message
> really hurts my feelings and I still wonder
why they can be posted on
> international mailing lists.
> We are supposed to act as responsible adults and work together so that
the
> chapters can manage projects... and I keep
thinking we are pretty good
at
>> it.
>>
>> I don't want to read "shame", "false statement",
"use Louise passing",
>> "uncollaborative way".
>> Both because it's a very agressive way to talk to human beings,
because
>
it's misleading people about what's going on, and because it's simply
not
> true.
>
> A few French wkipedians are not happy with the board and some of the
> employees. They are about 25-30% of Wikimedia France members and asked
for
>> a General Meeting - which will take place in September.
>> Some of their concerns can be understood, but some of those
wikipedians
>> began to accuse the board of squandering
money without any ground for
it
>
(there have been two audits within the past few years and all the
> accounts/expenses are audited yearly, published and commented to the
> members), to go and see former employee's bosses to stalk them, to
spread
>> rumours on their sexuality, to report members of the board to their
own
>> boss etc. This is going mad. Really
mad.
>>
>> This is not "the community", Pierre-Selim, I'm sorry.
>> This is a few people, for various reasons, usualy very personal and
very
>> bad ones. And those people refuse to
acknowledge reality, even when
the
> board
explains everything, even when lawyers explains what can and
cannot
> be done within a chapter.
>
> I'm really worried about the behaviour of those people, and the future
of
> Wikimedia France - since the harassment could
lead to prosecution from
> employees.
>
> Best,
>
> Rémi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Pierre-Selim <pierre-selim(a)huard.info>
>> Date: 2 August 2017 at 20:09
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>>
>> The passing of Louise is really sad :(
>>
>> On the other fronts, Edouard it feels like you're not telling things
the
>>> way
>>> they really are.
>>>
>>> "The board acknowledge..." means the board has been forced to a
new
AGM
>>
by
>> 25%
>> of the member. Our bylaws dictate that.
>>
>> The board has published a shameful "Right of reply" [1], full of
>> inexact/false
>> statements that are on the same line than the email sent by the board
>> on July 11th (and shared here by Chris [2]).
>> This Right of reply even "use" Louise passing ... For shame!
>>
>> In an uncollaborative way, the board has not listen to the
>> community/member
>> for
>> the agenda which forces the members to a new vote [3] to add items to
the
>> agenda
>> ... during the summer ... and Wikimania.
>>
>> I hope the board will have again to "Acknowlege" the voice of the
>> community,
>> but I wish we did not had to go this way.
>>
>> I am truly ashamed of this board,
>>
>> [1]
https://www.mathisbenguigui.eu/wikimedia-timeline/droitderep
>> onse.html
>> [2]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-July/
>> 088008.html
>> [3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimédia_France/
>> Assemblée_générale/septembre_2017/Points_à_ajouter_à_l'ordre_du_jour
>>
>> 2017-07-26 17:56 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com>om>:
>>
>> Yes, I figured this out, thanks. Now copyediting.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Yaroslav
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Natacha Rault <n.rault(a)me.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> probably me...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 26 juil. 2017 à 17:49, Yaroslav Blanter
<ymbalt(a)gmail.com> a
>>>>>>
>>>>> écrit
>>>
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, after Catherine's mail, an English article was
started
by
>>>>>>
>>>>> someone
>>>>>
>>>>>> I can not recognize from the username.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Merzeau
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Yaroslav
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Katherine Maher <
>>>>>>
>>>>> kmaher(a)wikimedia.org
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Édouard and our other colleagues at Wikimédia France,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are sorry to hear about the passing of Mrs. Louise
Merzeau.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I
>>>
>>>> did
>>>>>
>>>>>> not have a chance to meet her, I understand she was an advocate
for
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>
>>>> Commons movement and a leading academic on digital identities and
>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>
>>> relationship between technology and culture. I suspect we would have
>>>>>>
>>>>> gotten
>>>>
>>>>> along well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although she did not get to share her knowledge longer, we are
>>>>>>
>>>>> grateful
>>>
>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>> the contributions she made. I have no doubt Wikimedia would have
>>>>>>
>>>>> benefited
>>>>
>>>>> greatly from her continued advocacy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recognize with everything that is going on, an event like this
can
>>>>>>> quickly pass by without enough notice and tribute from all
of us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope we can pause to recognize that, above all, we are people
who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>> come together under a shared vision for a better future. The
passion
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> bond that unites us are much stronger than any disagreements or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> challenges.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Louise was a part of that vision, and we owe it to her to
recognize
>>>>>>
>>>>> her
>>>
>>>> passing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, please know that she is
in
>>>>>>
>>>>> our
>>
>>> thoughts and that the community has our condolences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Katherine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS. I encourage you to learn more about Mrs. Merzeau and her
life
>>>>>>
>>>>> from
>>
>>> her
>>>>
>>>>> article on French Wikipedia:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>>>>>
>>>>> Louise_Merzeau
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>> --
>> Pierre-Selim
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