Perhaps we can also have community discussion and
!voting on the larger
suggestions, to help Wikimedia at large to prioritize (or
reflect on why
tackling a popular set of challenges is hard to focus on). This seems like
a useful enough list to want to come out with a rough ordering of the
"larger" list as well as the traditional ordering of smaller wishes.
That's exactly what it is for. See the lead at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Larger_sugge…
. The wish about Commons maintenance was never "removed", it was *moved* to
Larger suggestions, because as Szymon explained better than I did, we
(Community Tech) cannot provide indefinite support for Commons and tackle
900+ bugs. Moving it to Larger suggestions recognizes the proposal is an
important problem that deserves broader attention. Apologies this wasn't
clear.
~ MA
On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 2:31 PM Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Perhaps we can also have community discussion and
!voting on the larger
> suggestions, to help Wikimedia at large to prioritize (or
reflect on why
> tackling a popular set of challenges is hard to focus on). This seems like
> a useful enough list to want to come out with a rough ordering of the
> "larger" list as well as the traditional ordering of smaller wishes.
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:51 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Kaya
>>
>> As was said we should put forward wishes to the list even if they can't
>> be fulfilled by the team, by removing the issue from the wishlist you have
>> taken away the communities ability to express that they wish the issues to
>> be addressed.
>>
>> Calling it out of scope and removing it is exactly what we were told was
>> not going happen this year. I'll go back to my original response the
>> Wishlist is broken and doesnt serve the communities needs
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 at 15:12, Szymon Grabarczuk <
>> sgrabarczuk(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Gnangarra and everyone who feels misinformed,
>>>
>>> Please take into account my reply published on the same page, a few
>>> diffs later:
>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022…
>>>
>>> In a nutshell, the voting results are instructions for the Community
>>> Tech team. Since our team can't hire another team, such wishes,
>>> unfortunately, can't be voted upon. Instead, these become "larger
>>> suggestions" which will be shared with the leadership of the Product
>>> department at the Wikimedia Foundation.
>>>
>>> I invite you to discuss the details on the Survey talk page:
>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Wishlist_Survey
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Szymon Grabarczuk (he/him)
>>>
>>> Community Relations Specialist
>>>
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:18 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> so much for all the assurances here
>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022…
>>>> Out of scope for our team, which I hope is obvious
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 12:26, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Commons issues raised in
>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Multimedia_a…
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 at 05:16, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
>>>>> bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe, the Community Tech team should start picking up long
standing
>>>>>> issues first which are being proposed repetitively almost every
year but do
>>>>>> not get adequate votes to receive their attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 00:59 Mike Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net>
wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure if the opening of the Wishlist has been announced
here yet?
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> it seems to be open for proposals until the 23rd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which means I get to propose fixing a simple technical
question for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> fifth time in the wishlist: does this page exist?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seriously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Miscellaneou…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/1/22 16:10:37, Natalia Rodriguez wrote:
>>>>>>> > Hey all,
>>>>>>> > Nice to meet many of you for the first time! Thanks for
your
>>>>>>> feedback
>>>>>>> > and for raising larger concerns around resource
allocation at the
>>>>>>> > Foundation. These concerns are extremely valid--
especially the
>>>>>>> ones
>>>>>>> > around allocating resources for less supported platforms
such as
>>>>>>> Commons
>>>>>>> > and broken infrastructure. The wishlist process will
begin next
>>>>>>> week
>>>>>>> > with the proposal phase starting Jan 10.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > In the email thread, I identified some open questions
about the
>>>>>>> Wishlist
>>>>>>> > process so I am answering them here.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > *
>>>>>>> > Can we vote/focus on the maintenance of tools rather
than new
>>>>>>> tools?
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > Yes. The wishes that we work on do not have to
be
>>>>>>> associated
>>>>>>> > with a new tool. In the past we’ve taken on
projects that
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> > maintenance related. For example, in the last
year, we
>>>>>>> took on
>>>>>>> > improvement projects for Wikisource Export and
Wikisource
>>>>>>> OCR
>>>>>>> > tools, among other initiatives. We also maintain
and fix
>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>> > tools we’ve built in the past.Check out the
fresh
>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>> > about what qualifies as a proposal here.
>>>>>>> > <
>>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey/FAQ#How_to_create…
>>>>>>> ?>
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > Gnangarra, your points about the issues with
bulk uploads
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> > Commons would make a sound proposal-- a proposal
does not
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> > to be a new tool in the least. The part about
uploading
>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>> > files is out of scope for our team though (see
link above
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> > our areas of focus, the issue is
infrastructural
>>>>>>> >
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86436>and too large
>>>>>>> for what
>>>>>>> > we can take on). I still believe there is value
in
>>>>>>> suggesting
>>>>>>> > it, though.
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > We have Talk to Us
>>>>>>> > <
>>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey/Updates/Talk_to_Us
>>>>>>> >hours
>>>>>>> > on January 19-- where the entire team will be
available
>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>> > video call to help folks who want to write
proposals and
>>>>>>> polish
>>>>>>> > them so that they may get selected.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > *
>>>>>>> > What if what we want fixed is larger than what the
Community
>>>>>>> Tech
>>>>>>> > team can accomplish?
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > This year, we will be talking directly with
leadership
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> > larger wishes that we can't fulfill
ourselves. To make this
>>>>>>> > possible, we will no longer be formally
'Archiving' ideas.
>>>>>>> One
>>>>>>> > improvement we are implementing from
conversations with
>>>>>>> all of
>>>>>>> > you at past Talk to Us Hours and other places,
is that we
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> > place projects that are too large for us into a
new
>>>>>>> category
>>>>>>> > called “Larger Suggestions'' because we
still want people
>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>> > able to voice those needs. We plan to share this
with the
>>>>>>> > Foundation's leadership during the WMF's
annual planning,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> > takes place in the spring.
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > This being said, if you have an idea that may be
too large
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> > us to take on, I would also encourage you to
come to Talk
>>>>>>> to Us
>>>>>>> > Hours (link above) and see if we can help you
workshop the
>>>>>>> > proposal into something we can help with. If we
can’t then
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> > would still highly encourage you to propose, by
all means!
>>>>>>> > Chances are if you think it’s an important
problem, many
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> > members do as well.
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > Finally, the wishlist isn't just for
Community Tech.
>>>>>>> Volunteer
>>>>>>> > developers and other Wikimedia Foundation teams
have taken
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> > wishes from the wishlist. For this reason, there
is a
>>>>>>> chance
>>>>>>> > that a wish may not be appropriate for our team,
but it
>>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>> > addressed by someone else.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > *
>>>>>>> > Why isn’t the WMF fixing what we feel are be the
most urgently
>>>>>>> > needed fixes in functionality?
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > This is a larger question that gets answered at
the board
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> > C-leadership levels. There are also some
relatively new
>>>>>>> teams at
>>>>>>> > the Foundation, such as Architecture and
Platform
>>>>>>> Engineering,
>>>>>>> > that aim to improve the technical infrastructure
overall
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> > years to come. However, every team can help with
the
>>>>>>> answer and
>>>>>>> > Community Tech can help with communication of
technical
>>>>>>> needs.
>>>>>>> > This “Larger Suggestions” collection of wishes I
mentioned
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> > the previous answer will not be a silver bullet
that fixes
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> > of the problems, but I believe in the power of
incremental
>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>> > to steer us in that direction.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > *
>>>>>>> > How can we communicate the urgency of the fixes that
we need?
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > I don’t believe there is any lack of
documentation of
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>> > about functionality that is broken. Folks are
right to
>>>>>>> point out
>>>>>>> > that it’s about synthesizing what is most
urgently broken,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> > maintenance that is really necessary, and
surfacing it to
>>>>>>> > leadership. We, the Community Tech team, had a
lot of hard
>>>>>>> > conversations about how to handle this because
we never
>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>> > mislead anyone into thinking we are going to
work on ideas
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> > are too large for our team. However, we all
collectively
>>>>>>> came to
>>>>>>> > the conclusion that we should still be the team
that gives
>>>>>>> > people the space to voice what they need from a
technical
>>>>>>> > perspective.
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > The wishlist itself can communicate urgency. If
you submit
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> > detailed wish (the more details, the better!),
and if the
>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>> > receives a high number of votes, we definitively
know as a
>>>>>>> team
>>>>>>> > that it's urgent and high-priority. From
there, we have the
>>>>>>> > information we need to take next steps. This may
involve
>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>> > on the wish ourselves or communicating the wish
to
>>>>>>> leadership.
>>>>>>> > *
>>>>>>> > Does the Community Tech team work in isolation?
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > No, we constantly collaborate with other teams
at the
>>>>>>> Foundation
>>>>>>> > and most importantly, with all of you. This year
our goal
>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>> > share the top wishes with other product managers
who are
>>>>>>> > responsible for products related to the
categories in the
>>>>>>> > wishlist. This way, they may incorporate
relevant wishes
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> > their team's roadmap, or they will at least
consider
>>>>>>> community
>>>>>>> > requests as they plan upcoming work. We always
check to
>>>>>>> see if
>>>>>>> > other teams are already working on solutions
related to
>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>> > asked inside of the Wishlist. We plan to do more
and are
>>>>>>> > energized that the conversation is already
beginning to
>>>>>>> happen
>>>>>>> > in this thread.
>>>>>>> > *
>>>>>>> > Why is the Community Tech team so small? Why
can't more people
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> > hired, or why can't a second Community Tech team
be formed?
>>>>>>> > o
>>>>>>> > As a team, we deeply believe in our work, and we
hope to
>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>> > growing. We know how important it is to work
directly with
>>>>>>> > community members and fulfill community
requests. If you
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> > our team to grow, one of the best ways you can
champion us
>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>> > participate in the wishlist. As participation
rates grow
>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>> > they have!), the more effectively we can
advocate for our
>>>>>>> team
>>>>>>> > and its resources.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > P.S. We are still welcoming help to promote the survey
and to
>>>>>>> translate
>>>>>>> > the updated documentation. Thanks for reading.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Best,
>>>>>>> > Natalia Rodriguez
>>>>>>> > Senior Product Manager, Community Tech
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list --
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> GN.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> GN.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
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