Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015 - Wikimedia-l

Aya Mahfouz

21 Apr 21 Apr

8:03 p.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and Mexico City! I add my voice to that of Cooper concerning the criteria of choosing the winner for 2015. In addition to the cities that Cooper has mentioned, I would like to know what happened with Bali's bid too. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

...

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and all those that helped put the bid together. I believe Mexico City will turn out to be a great place to host Wikimania and I look forward to attending. Regardless, I hope when appropriate, the reasons Mexico City were chosen and where other bids could have done better will be posted somewhere for digestion as done in previous years. In particular, while the bid was clearly lacking, it would be helpful to have an official answer to why the Dar es Salaam was disqualified. Kind regards, Christopher User: CT Cooper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Patricia Pena

9:47 p.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

¡Felicitaciones Wikimedia México! :) On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Anna Torres <anna(a)wikimedia.org.ar> wrote:

...

Congrats México! What a great job done! :) Hope to meet all your staff anf fellows asap! Any help needed from Argentina, just ask and will be handled fondly! Hugs! 2014-04-21 17:03 GMT-03:00 Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com>om>:

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and Mexico City! I add my voice to that of Cooper concerning the criteria of choosing the winner for 2015. In addition to the cities that Cooper has mentioned, I would like to know what happened with Bali's bid too. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and all those that helped put the

bid

> together. I believe Mexico City will turn out to be a great place to

host

> Wikimania and I look forward to attending. > > Regardless, I hope when appropriate, the reasons Mexico City were

chosen

> and where other bids could have done better will be posted somewhere

for

digestion as done in previous years. In particular, while the bid was clearly lacking, it would be helpful to have an official answer to why

the

Dar es Salaam was disqualified. Kind regards, Christopher User: CT Cooper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Richard Symonds

22 Apr 22 Apr

9:33 a.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

Christopher, Aya, Speaking as a jury member, the reason we disqualified Bali and Dar es Salaam was that those two bids were not really complete enough to score. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 21 April 2014 21:03, Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and Mexico City! I add my voice to that of Cooper concerning the criteria of choosing the winner for 2015. In addition to the cities that Cooper has mentioned, I would like to know what happened with Bali's bid too. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and all those that helped put the bid together. I believe Mexico City will turn out to be a great place to host Wikimania and I look forward to attending. Regardless, I hope when appropriate, the reasons Mexico City were chosen and where other bids could have done better will be posted somewhere for digestion as done in previous years. In particular, while the bid was clearly lacking, it would be helpful to have an official answer to why

the

Dar es Salaam was disqualified. Kind regards, Christopher User: CT Cooper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Richard Symonds

5:02 p.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

No, Aya, I don't think there will be a public report - I don't think it's happened in previous years. I for one would not be happy with making my marking grid public because the bidders didn't know that the marking grids were going to be made public - and for that matter, neither did I! I am also a little worried about being "second-guessed" by the community at large. Imagine, *for example,* if the jury was split down the middle, with half hating the Mexico bid and half loving it: it could be very damaging for the volunteer team morale to show that not everyone supported them, and it might damage the conference. Perhaps in future it would be a good thing to do... However, I see where you're coming from - it would be good to have feedback on the individual bids for posterity's sake, and to make sure that mistakes or omissions aren't repeated in future... Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 22 April 2014 16:27, Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thanks Richard for the reply! Will there be any public report with a matrix indicating the scores of the bidding cities in each judging criterion? Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Richard Symonds < richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

Christopher, Aya, Speaking as a jury member, the reason we disqualified Bali and Dar es Salaam was that those two bids were not really complete enough to score. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A

4LT.

United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 21 April 2014 21:03, Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and Mexico City! > > I add my voice to that of Cooper concerning the criteria of choosing

the

winner for 2015. In addition to the cities that Cooper has mentioned, I would like to know what happened with Bali's bid too. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and all those that helped put the

bid

> together. I believe Mexico City will turn out to be a great place to

host

> Wikimania and I look forward to attending. > > Regardless, I hope when appropriate, the reasons Mexico City were

chosen

> and where other bids could have done better will be posted somewhere

for > > digestion as done in previous years. In particular, while the bid was > > clearly lacking, it would be helpful to have an official answer to

why

> the > > Dar es Salaam was disqualified. > > > > Kind regards, > > Christopher > > User: CT Cooper > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Aya Mahfouz

6:08 p.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

@Richard I know that no public reports were released previously. But if it starts to be a habit, it will help elevate the transparency of the process. Concerning the grid the Judges real names can be anonymized to be Judge 1, Judge 2 and so on. As for the "second guessing" issue, I think it can appear in many forms whether the report was published or not. As for your example, isn't it the case for all contenders (especially if they are strong ones) in any selection mechanism (be it bidding, elections or any other form) ? And Richard thank you for all your efforts as a judge and taking the effort to reply on our concerns in this thread. Holding such responsibilities is a huge burden and makes the person vulnerable to critics, whether they are deserved or not. @Nathan Totally agree! This would be a great start. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Richard Symonds < richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

No, Aya, I don't think there will be a public report - I don't think it's happened in previous years. I for one would not be happy with making my marking grid public because

the

bidders didn't know that the marking grids were going to be made public - and for that matter, neither did I! I am also a little worried about

being

"second-guessed" by the community at large. Imagine, *for example,* if

the

jury was split down the middle, with half hating the Mexico bid and half loving it: it could be very damaging for the volunteer team morale to

show

that not everyone supported them, and it might damage the conference. Perhaps in future it would be a good thing to do... However, I see where you're coming from - it would be good to have

feedback

on the individual bids for posterity's sake, and to make sure that

mistakes

or omissions aren't repeated in future... Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992

Maybe start by releasing the blank grid? Meta has judging criteria, but I don't see a grid. Does the jury bottom line the grid scores and then average them up? Maybe that "final score" by the jury as a whole could be released to the parties who submitted bids? _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Ivan Martínez

8:46 p.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

Michael, thanks for the recommendations. We will add this information to the public information of the event. I think most popular overland ways to come to Mexico from the States are safe, but is more safe have this information direct from the Mexico Federal Government. Regards. 2014-04-22 13:23 GMT-05:00 Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk>gt;:

...

I find it difficult to believe it would be that bad. Yes, it might causes some issues if it turned out that a bid won because it was the "least worst" and was actually still very unpopular with the jury. However, I think people understand that no bid is ever perfect and wouldn't expect every jury decision on who hosts Wikimania to be unanimous. At the very least there should be a written explanation on what the strengths of the winning bid were, and what the problems of those that didn't were. This has been done in past years and would help prevent mistakes being repeated. Also, since Wikimania is a public conference, I think those that attend it and support it deserve to know why and how it gets to be hosted in a particular place. As someone who has followed the bidding process over multiple years, I think it is fair to say that communication between the jury and the community during the bidding process has not been as good this year as in previous years. I believe improving this should be a priority for the next round of bidding for 2016. As a member of the Scholarship Committee, I note that the scholarships process was in the past criticized for just the same issue and that has now been rectified, and from my perspective doing so has improved community confidence in the process. Kind regards, Christopher User: CT Cooper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper -----Original Message----- From: Richard Symonds [mailto:richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk] Sent: 22 April 2014 18:02 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015 No, Aya, I don't think there will be a public report - I don't think it's happened in previous years. I for one would not be happy with making my marking grid public because the bidders didn't know that the marking grids were going to be made public - and for that matter, neither did I! I am also a little worried about being "second-guessed" by the community at large. Imagine, *for example,* if the jury was split down the middle, with half hating the Mexico bid and half loving it: it could be very damaging for the volunteer team morale to show that not everyone supported them, and it might damage the conference. Perhaps in future it would be a good thing to do... However, I see where you're coming from - it would be good to have feedback on the individual bids for posterity's sake, and to make sure that mistakes or omissions aren't repeated in future... Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 22 April 2014 16:27, Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Richard for the reply! Will there be any public report with a matrix indicating the scores of the bidding cities in each judging

criterion?

Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Richard Symonds < richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk> wrote: > Christopher, Aya, > > Speaking as a jury member, the reason we disqualified Bali and Dar > es Salaam was that those two bids were not really complete enough to

score.

Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A

4LT.

United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 21 April 2014 21:03, Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and Mexico City! > > I add my voice to that of Cooper concerning the criteria of > choosing

the

winner for 2015. In addition to the cities that Cooper has mentioned, I would like to know what happened with Bali's bid too. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and all those that helped > put the

bid

> together. I believe Mexico City will turn out to be a great > place to

host

> Wikimania and I look forward to attending. > > Regardless, I hope when appropriate, the reasons Mexico City > were

chosen

> and where other bids could have done better will be posted > somewhere

for > > digestion as done in previous years. In particular, while the > > bid was clearly lacking, it would be helpful to have an official > > answer to

why

> the > > Dar es Salaam was disqualified. > > > > Kind regards, > > Christopher > > User: CT Cooper > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscr > ibe> > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscrib e>

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Christopher Cooper

4:11 p.m.

New subject: Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015

Thanks for the information. I've updated https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2015_bids based on this information. I agree with Aya that a public posting of the scoring matrix would be great as well. Kind regards, Christopher User: CT Cooper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper -----Original Message----- From: Richard Symonds [mailto:richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk] Sent: 22 April 2014 10:33 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement regarding Host for Wikimania 2015 Christopher, Aya, Speaking as a jury member, the reason we disqualified Bali and Dar es Salaam was that those two bids were not really complete enough to score. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 21 April 2014 21:03, Aya Mahfouz <mahfouz.saif.elyazal(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and Mexico City! I add my voice to that of Cooper concerning the criteria of choosing the winner for 2015. In addition to the cities that Cooper has mentioned, I would like to know what happened with Bali's bid too. Kind Regards, Aya Saif El-yazal Mahfouz On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 8:23 PM, Christopher Cooper < ct-cooper.wikimedia.ml(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Congratulations to Wikimedia Mexico and all those that helped put the bid together. I believe Mexico City will turn out to be a great place to host Wikimania and I look forward to attending. Regardless, I hope when appropriate, the reasons Mexico City were chosen and where other bids could have done better will be posted somewhere for digestion as done in previous years. In particular, while the bid was clearly lacking, it would be helpful to have an official answer to why

the

Dar es Salaam was disqualified. Kind regards, Christopher User: CT Cooper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:CT_Cooper _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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