Dear all
I have been accused of three things:
1.
Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions. I have always stated to staff that I only represented 10% of the board and have never given assurances that I could convince other trustees. I would be interested in hearing staff weigh in on this accusation but I consider it unfounded.
1.
Releasing private board information. I have not made public, private board discussions during my time on the board. I have however pushed for greater transparency both within the WMF and with our communities. I have made myself informed by discussing issues with trusted staff and community members and used independent judgement.
1.
Publishing the statement about my removal on Wikimedia-l. I was not asked by other board members at any time before its publication to produce a joint statement or to delay publishing the statement I had put together a few days prior. The first proposal to collaborate I believe was by myself here https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-December/080502.html I was also not informed that the meeting was going to continue for the purpose of producing such a statement.
I have always acted in what I believe are the best interests of the movement and the WMF.
First of all, a happy new year to everyone!
Thank you, James, for bringing at least some light into this blurriness. For some more light, all board members, please do me a favor and explain briefly how you see the relationship between transparency and our movement, especially in your work as board members. And of course, please include how this opinion is in line with your decision in James's case. I'd really like to know what each of you thinks about that. Thanks. :)
Th.
2016-01-02 1:31 GMT+01:00 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com:
Dear all
I have been accused of three things:
Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions. I have always stated to staff that I only represented 10% of the board and have never given assurances that I could convince other trustees. I would be interested in hearing staff weigh in on this accusation but I consider it unfounded.
Releasing private board information. I have not made public, private board discussions during my time on the board. I have however pushed for greater transparency both within the WMF and with our communities. I have made myself informed by discussing issues with trusted staff and community members and used independent judgement.
Publishing the statement about my removal on Wikimedia-l. I was not asked by other board members at any time before its publication to produce a joint statement or to delay publishing the statement I had put together a few days prior. The first proposal to collaborate I believe was by myself here
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-December/080502.html I was also not informed that the meeting was going to continue for the purpose of producing such a statement.
I have always acted in what I believe are the best interests of the movement and the WMF.
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Thank you for that statement, James.
I am principally concerned about an allegation that James leaked confidential information. If that is true, then that could be a serious problem and I can see how that would lead other trustees to feel that the "least bad" option is to remove James from the Board. Also, if that accusation is true, I think we as a community would be concerned about James' suitability for other roles in the community that involve confidentiality.
On the other hand, the Board's handling of this situation is a cause of significant concern. Some of the Board's actions to this point have been inconsistent with the standards of professionalism that I feel that the employees, donors, and community would reasonably expect from one of the world's most visible open-knowledge organizations.
I would propose an investigation into the facts and circumstances of this situation by an outside party which has expertise in governance matters.
It seems to me that the alternative to an external investigation is to have (another) long-running dispute about governance at WMF, which I think would be a far worse outcome than anything resulting from an external investigation that leads to public knowledge of the facts and appropriate steps being taken to address any issues that come to light in the report.
I regret that we are dealing with this difficult situation on New Year's. I hope that this is a learning opportunity for all of us.
Pine
2016-01-02 1:31 GMT+01:00 James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com:
Dear all
I have been accused of three things:
Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions. I have always stated to staff that I only represented 10%
of
the board and have never given assurances that I could convince other trustees. I would be interested in hearing staff weigh in on this accusation
but I
consider it unfounded.
Releasing private board information. I have not made public, private board discussions during my time on the board. I have however pushed
for
greater transparency both within the WMF and with our communities. I have made myself informed by discussing issues with trusted staff and community members and used independent judgement.
Publishing the statement about my removal on Wikimedia-l. I was not asked by other board members at any time before its publication to produce a joint statement or to delay publishing the statement I had put together a few days prior. The first proposal to collaborate I believe was by myself here
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-December/080502.html
I was also not informed that the meeting was going to continue for the purpose of producing such a statement.
I have always acted in what I believe are the best interests of the movement and the WMF.
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi all -
What concerns me as much as anything about James' removal is his final statement - "I have always acted in what I believe are the best interests of the movement and the WMF." James has been active in the movement for a long time in a variety of roles, and we have no reason to believe that this statement is not true - in fact, even public statements from other trustees so far have not contradicted it. If James statements is to be taken at face value, then he has in fact met his fiduciary duty to the WMF. Trustees don't have an inherent duty of confidentiality - they have inherent duties of loyalty, and inherent duties of care. They *often* have a derived duty of confidentiality, but that's a derived duty - disclosing information related to an ongoing lawsuit to another party in a way that would be harmful to WMF would violate the board member's duty of loyalty to WMF. Even though that's often spoken about as if it would be a problem because of an inherent duty of confidentiality, except in situations involving things like obligations to third parties (e.g., most issues of staff discipline, or explicitly private details of a contract with a thrird party,) the root issue in the theoretical situation I described would be breaking their duty of loyalty, not breaking their obligation to hold an issue confidential.
I don't believe that James' announcement of his dismissal from the board is potentially a broach of his fiduciary duty to the WMF. Given the other issues involved here, I find it reasonable - and I tend to agree with him - that having an open, prompt, and transparent conversation about his dismissal from the board and the reasons behind it is in the best interests of the Wikimedia Foundation. If he had been explicitly informed that the rest of the board was in the process of crafting a public, detailed statement about his dismissal, then this could potentially be an issue, but it seems like he wasn't informed that that was the case, so I don't understand how James' announcement of his own dismissal could be taken as a breach of his fidicuiary duties.
Without knowing what specific information was involved, it's hard to gauge whether James released confidential information in a way that was a breach of his fiducuiary duties. I will say that I've talked with James pretty often during his tenure on the board, and although he's been quite frank about his own opinions and about how he thought certain issues should be approached, I do not believe he disclosed a single piece of information that would reasonably be deemed confidential to me - and even if he had disclosed information the board believed should be held confidential (and I honestly don't believe he did,) unless there was a secondary obligation of confidentiality (e.g., a contract with a hosting provider with a nondisclosure clause,) doing so wouldn't inherently be a breach of his fiduciary duties - if he disclosed such information to me (or anyone else) because he thought that the benefit of our advice was outweighed by the chance of us disclosing the information further, it still wouldn't inherently represent a breach of his obligations to the board. But again - at least in conversations with me, he hasn't even gone that far. From time to time he has sought my opinion about particular issues, but he's done so in a way that hasn't made anything apparent except at the most his own personal opinion - in cases where he sought my advice, I wouldn't even have been able to make a clear guess as to whether he was asking for advice about an issue currently before the board, or an issue he was considering bringing up in six months.
Speaking with staff presents a trickier issue than the first two, but still isn't a black and white bad thing to do. Board members are generally encouraged to restrict their conversations to conversations with management (so that they don't end up accidentally interfering with management issues, since the primary role of board is governance,) but at the same time, if they believe that in order to fulfill their fidicuciary duties they need to have direct conversations with staff members, then legally, they would be breaking their fiduciary duties if they *didn't* have those conversations. While having them they should stress that they are interacting with the staff members as individual board members, not representing management or the BoT as a whole, and not trying to interfere with day to day management of the organization - but it sounds like James tried to follow those standards. There's also a secondary issue; if a staff member approached a board member with a concern that they believed could not be adequately addressed within their normal leadership chain, the board member would be absolutely remiss in not at least having a conversation with the staff member. If someone from fundraising had approached James with concerns that management had somehow embezzled $100m, and those concerns turned out to be at all plausible, he would be absolutely remiss in his duties as a board member in not following up on that conversation until he determined the veracity of the complaint (I'm making this an intentionally impossible situation to make it clear that I'm not basing this on any actual conversations James had with staff - because I'm unaware of what those conversations consisted of. For those missing it: embezzling $100m would be literally embezzling more than WMF's entire operating budget, and could only possibly happen if all WMF staff members, board members, and outside obsevers had literally been replaced with potatoes.)
If James believed that his conversations with staff members were reasonably necessary to fulfill his fiduciary duties, then although he should try to emphasize the role in which he was acting, he should have those conversations. Just so this whole email isn't drawn on my own knowledge{{cn}}, I want to point out that the WMF board manual - [1] - pretty soundly supports my interpretation of all three issues that James has seemingly been accused of. The manual makes it clear that WMF board members should not attempt to micromanage or task staff in most instances (with obvious exceptions like coordinating board travel,) and discourages board members from having substantive conversations with staff without informing the ED except in situations where the ED has a conflict - although I would point out that that section is guidance, rather than a description of a board member's legal obligations. If you look at the section of the board manual that specifically describes the fiduciary duties of board members - [2] - it stresses that board members must be as informed as they can in considering issues that come before the board, taking in to account all reasonable sources of information that come before them. In most cases (that don't involve the evaluation of the performance of management,) most of this information should be provided to board members by the ED or other senior management, but if a board member feels that their decision cannot be fully informed without consulting non-management staff members, then it is up to the board member's own judgement as to whether or not they should consult with non-management staff.
When I was on the board of a California-based organization, we had a director in his first year - we had a formalized performance review process for him that involved talking to non-management staff systemically. I don't know if WMF BoT has a similar process for Lila, but even if they don't, I can imagine staff members raising issues they perceive with Lila directly with a Trustee that they know. Nothing against Lila in saying that - it's just fairly typical to have things like that happen in the first year of a new ED's term. I don't know if that was what James' contact with staff was about, but if it was, I could see it being more than appropriate. In a movement that prioritizes openness as greatly as Wikimedia does, I could also see a great degree of contact between trustees and non-management staff being potentially appropriate.
I really hope that more information comes out to support the idea that James' removal from the board was necessary - he ran on a more active platform than most recent trustees has, won a pretty significant number of votes, I think I and many others will have significant confidence in his statement that he has always carried out his fiduciary duties (and doing so requires him doing what he views as best for WMF, and explicitly not subordinating his judgement to anyone else's, including other trustees,) and so far I'm not sure that any of the publicly expressed concerns about his actions justify his removal. I wouldn't expect every organization to justify the removal of a trustee publicly, but with a movement that values openness as much as ours does, I'd hope that the removal of a community-recommended trustee could be publicly justified pretty fully.
Best, KG
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Handbook [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_Handbook#Fiduciar...
On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 4:31 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Dear all
I have been accused of three things:
Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions. I have always stated to staff that I only represented 10% of the board and have never given assurances that I could convince other trustees. I would be interested in hearing staff weigh in on this accusation but I consider it unfounded.
Releasing private board information. I have not made public, private board discussions during my time on the board. I have however pushed for greater transparency both within the WMF and with our communities. I have made myself informed by discussing issues with trusted staff and community members and used independent judgement.
Publishing the statement about my removal on Wikimedia-l. I was not asked by other board members at any time before its publication to produce a joint statement or to delay publishing the statement I had put together a few days prior. The first proposal to collaborate I believe was by myself here
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-December/080502.html I was also not informed that the meeting was going to continue for the purpose of producing such a statement.
I have always acted in what I believe are the best interests of the movement and the WMF.
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Dear Doc James, and everyone,
On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 4:31 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
I have been accused of three things:
- Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board
decisions. I have always stated to staff that I only represented 10% of the board and have never given assurances that I could convince other trustees. I would be interested in hearing staff weigh in on this accusation but I consider it unfounded.
For my part, and I believe I speak for at least some other staff, I can confirm you have never misrepresented your role in the board or the positions you were taking, and did not "give unrealistic expectations" on that potential board decision, or any other. (If anyone did, it was another board member, and not Doc James.)
I think my role as staff means I should keep out of this discussion (and to those reaching out privately: please understand I am not at liberty to discuss this), but since this allegation about your conduct is specifically about staff, I thought I should inform the community on this specific point.
Thank you for all you've done, Doc.
Sincerely,
Asaf
James Heilman <jmh649@...> writes:
Dear all
I have been accused of three things:
Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions. I have always stated to staff that I only represented 10% of the board and have never given assurances that I could convince other trustees. I would be interested in hearing staff weigh in on this accusation but I consider it unfounded.
Releasing private board information. I have not made public, private board discussions during my time on the board. I have however pushed for greater transparency both within the WMF and with our communities. I have made myself informed by discussing issues with trusted staff and community members and used independent judgement.
Publishing the statement about my removal on Wikimedia-l. I was not asked by other board members at any time before its publication to produce a joint statement or to delay publishing the statement I had put together a few days prior. The first proposal to collaborate I believe was by myself here https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-December/080502.html I was also not informed that the meeting was going to continue for the purpose of producing such a statement.
I have always acted in what I believe are the best interests of the movement and the WMF.
Hi - my name isn't familiar to most of you,* but I'm another community member and I spoke to James when he visited San Francisco a couple months ago. James was an early mentor of mine when I was editing medical topics a number of years ago, so it was natural for us to meet up for coffee.
As a nonvoting community member of the WMF Audit Committee, I get to see some privileged information and talk to the auditors once a year. If I recall correctly, James thought I might have been receiving emails about some sort of financial situation. When I said no, he didn't reveal any information about what the situation was, but if I recall correctly he said that the board wasn't letting him view some documents.
I'm not a lawyer, but the general rule, mostly codified in state statutes, is that all board members have an equally absolute right to inspect and copy all books and records. See Martin G. McGuinn Jr. 1966 which notes that "a large number of courts have ... termed this right absolute and unqualified". So I told him his rights. We've never talked about it since. The announcement of his dismissal came as a huge shock to me, but I imagine James asserted his rights to some of the board's discomfort.
I did come away with a question mark about what the situation might be and I figured I would bring it up at the next audit meeting (which hasn't happened), but as a nonvoting member I'm really not in a position to rock the boat or demand sensitive information. I can make gentle suggestions and ask questions, but I'm really just there as a courtesy. I imagine this message may spell the end of my tenure.
Commenting on the three points:
1. Putting a few pieces together, it appears that much of the dispute centers around staff relationships. According to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WMF_Transparency_Gap#Staff_communicatio... iscouraged staff were forbidden to communicate to board members, which implies that there was also an unwritten rule strongly discouraging board members from reaching out to staff as well. Yeah, it's a convention to funnel all communication through the ED, but it's not necessarily a good one. In any case, the board needs to survey staff (quantitatively and qualitatively) to effectively review the Executive Director's performance. Further, this makes WMF sound like a fear-driven organization ("fear is the mind-killer"). The best employees - especially the developers - can easily find other jobs. In any case, we in the community are free to talk to staff all we - and they - want. It's hard to keep things secret in the wiki-world, even if the WMF seems to have done a pretty good job so far. If necessary, the community can organize a group to conduct surveys of willing employees and send it to the board, although I hope that won't be necessary.
2. As far as releasing private information, if anyone got something private, you might think I would have gotten something juicy sitting across a table from James, but I didn't. If the WMF had good evidence of disclosing private information, you'd think they would have revealed it by this point. Also, while there is a convention that "what happens in the boardroom stays in the boardroom", my understanding is that non-executive session discussions are not confidential. Which is not to suggest that James was describing board meetings to people.
3. While James has a great rebuttal, his announcement about his dismissal came after the fact, and it isn't worth cluttering up the more important substantive conversations with it any more.
Incidentally, on the topic of director democracy and its rarity among nonprofits ,Dent (2014) concluded in the Delaware Journal of Corporate Law that "NPO boards are effectively self-perpetuating. If the director primacists are correct, the governance of NPOs should be a model of wise, long-term management effected by officers who are clearly subordinate to the board. In fact, however, a remarkable consensus of experts on NPOs agrees that their governance is generally abysmal, considerably worse than that of for-profit corporations". Just because a practice is common doesn't mean it is a best practice.
* I've been editing Wikipedia since 2007 under a pseudonym but joined the Wikimedia Audit Committee as a nonvoting community volunteer a year and a half ago. I monitor lots of RSS feeds so I noticed a solicitation by the chair Stu West and submitted an application detailing my accounting and board experience. I monitor but don't really too involved in administrative aspects of Wikipedia. If you connect the dots to my username, please keep it to yourself even tho it's not a big secret.
References: 1. Martin G. McGuinn Jr., Right of Directors to Inspect Corporate Books and Records, 11 Vill. L. Rev. 578 (1966). Available at: http://digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/vlr/vol11/iss3/6
2. Dent, George W., Corporate Governance Without Shareholders: A Cautionary Lesson from Non-Profit Organizations (2014). Delaware Journal of Corporate Law (DJCL), Vol. 39, No. 1, 2014; Case Legal Studies Research Paper No. 2014-34. Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=2481646
Sincerely, Ben Creasy http://bencreasy.com/ (posted this through gmane so it might be a little funky. I use RSS to monitor the list - no way in hell am I letting a list like this clutter my pristine, nearly zero-item inbox)
I appreciate your speaking up, Ben.
If, while James was a board member, financial information was being withheld from him, that would indeed be another problem that should be included in the scope of an investigation of this situation by an outside party. It would also be troubling to me if there was some significant financial problem and the Audit Committee was not proactively informed of it.
Pine
Il giorno sab, 02/01/2016 alle 09.31 +0900, James Heilman ha scritto:
Dear all
I have been accused of three things: [...]
Does the board agree that these three are the things contested to James? * Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions; * Releasing private board information; * Publishing the statement about his removal on Wikimedia-l. (the last one clearly cannot have had a role in his removal, so this leaves the first two)
Laurentius
Thank you for coming forward, Ben and Asaf.
I'd been debating whether or not to gather more details about the handling of this event, or for just trying to make sure that procedures went more smoothly in case any further trustee was removed, but this calls for a direct question: were documents intentionally being withheld from James - for a couple of months at that - that were either being distributed to other trustees, that he directly asked for, or that were reasonably necessary for him acting in good faith to fulfill his fidicuiary duties? I can't cite chapter and verse of state code - partly because it varies depending on what exactly was involved, and I'm far more familiar with Califonia's requirements than Florida's - but if so, this is a problem. California is an extreme state when it comes to stuff like this, but in certain situations, intentionally withholding information that a sitting board member is legally entitled to is in some cases something that results in the waiver of protection they normally enjoy in most of their duties conducted in good faith even in unrelated areas to any and all trustees that were involved in the decision to withhold information - going as far as to negate not even specifically purchased insurance coverage.
If documents were intentionally held from James while he was still in fact a sitting trustee that were either distributed to other trustees, that were drectly asked for by James, or that were reasonably necessary for him to uphold his duties of loyalty and care to WMF, I believe an outside investigation by a nonprofit consulting group that WMF doesn't have a pre-existing relationship is likely necessary.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Laurentius laurentius.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Il giorno sab, 02/01/2016 alle 09.31 +0900, James Heilman ha scritto:
Dear all
I have been accused of three things: [...]
Does the board agree that these three are the things contested to James?
- Giving staff unrealistic expectations regarding potential board decisions;
- Releasing private board information;
- Publishing the statement about his removal on Wikimedia-l.
(the last one clearly cannot have had a role in his removal, so this leaves the first two)
Laurentius
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On 2 January 2016 at 21:25, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you for coming forward, Ben and Asaf.
Yes, thank you. These statements cast a much needed healthy light on the events leading up to James being kicked off the WMF board.
...
If documents were intentionally held from James while he was still in fact a sitting trustee that were either distributed to other trustees, that were drectly asked for by James, or that were reasonably necessary for him to uphold his duties of loyalty and care to WMF, I believe an outside investigation by a nonprofit consulting group that WMF doesn't have a pre-existing relationship is likely necessary.
This now appears unacceptably sordid politicking by at least some of the current board of trustees, and is sufficient cause for involved trustees to promptly resign. However based on the past behaviour and statements of the unelected board members, this will never happen by itself. As has been suggested on this list several times, an independent review with published recommendations for both immediate action and longer term improvement is necessary. Appropriate ethical trustee behaviour would then be seen to be in place and measured.
I don't see how any Wikimedian can claim the current board of the WMF to be competent. No board should be beyond accountability for their actions. It's time to see some swift credible changes made, that have more impact than re-arranging the deckchairs.
Fae
We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth coming out..
People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. How deep does it go? ..
I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that Ben cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding.
In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well connected.
-- Philippe Beaudette philippe.beaudette@icloud.com
On Jan 2, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com wrote:
We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth coming out..
People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. How deep does it go? ..
-- Cometstyles
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Ofcourse you wouldn't see it, but still, as this issue kept dragging on, things came to light and most of us here do not agree at all with the outcome...James was elected by the community, he was not another random person the community did not trust or hear of before being added to the board which actually includes 5 of the sitting BoT members none of whom actually have any knowledge on the basic fundamentals of the project so to fire someone who understands this and has given all to the project is downright silly....Again, its quite sad that they are dragging this on, it has been a few days now and we still have yet to get a clear answer and thus why all the conspiracy theory is floating around...Surely James should not be apologising for doing something right but as per my earlier comment, he seems to be the 'scapegoat' for something much bigger...the main question, What exactly did he do that he got fired?.
On 1/3/16, philippe@beaudette.me philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that Ben cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding.
In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well connected.
-- Philippe Beaudette philippe.beaudette@icloud.com
Philippe -
I totally agree with you that none of my experiences with WMF suggest that such a thing is likely to happen. Organizations and people change over time, though - similarly, this is the first time a sitting trustee has been dismissed. Given the unusuality of the situation, in my opinion at least, given the *drastic* seriousness that something like deliberately withholding documents in such a manner under California state law (I can't speak with familiarity about Florida NPO governance,) and the fact that both the BoT and James could pretty easily give flat out answers to the question of whether or not they think it occurred, I think it's worth asking for those answers.
If James and the BoT agree that such withholding took place, I think it demands an outside review of WMF governance. If James thinks it did, but the rest of the BoT disagrees.. given the general respect held for James' and the seriousness of the charge, I think an outside review of WMF governance is *still* probably reasonably necessary. If neither thinks such withholding took place, then it settles a serious charge quite simply.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:01 PM, philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that Ben cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding.
In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well connected.
-- Philippe Beaudette philippe.beaudette@icloud.com
On Jan 2, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com wrote:
We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth coming out..
People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. How deep does it go? ..
-- Cometstyles
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Kevin,
I disagree with nothing you’ve said here. What I disagreed with was the characterization that “certainly” something untoward had taken place.
pb
On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:41 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Philippe -
I totally agree with you that none of my experiences with WMF suggest that such a thing is likely to happen. Organizations and people change over time, though - similarly, this is the first time a sitting trustee has been dismissed. Given the unusuality of the situation, in my opinion at least, given the *drastic* seriousness that something like deliberately withholding documents in such a manner under California state law (I can't speak with familiarity about Florida NPO governance,) and the fact that both the BoT and James could pretty easily give flat out answers to the question of whether or not they think it occurred, I think it's worth asking for those answers.
If James and the BoT agree that such withholding took place, I think it demands an outside review of WMF governance. If James thinks it did, but the rest of the BoT disagrees.. given the general respect held for James' and the seriousness of the charge, I think an outside review of WMF governance is *still* probably reasonably necessary. If neither thinks such withholding took place, then it settles a serious charge quite simply.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:01 PM, philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that Ben cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding.
In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well connected.
-- Philippe Beaudette philippe.beaudette@icloud.com
On Jan 2, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com wrote:
We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth coming out..
People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. How deep does it go? ..
-- Cometstyles
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I'm quite aware of what James was trying to achieve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Doc_James/Foundation) and I'm fully in support of his ideas so if whatever he did was related to one of those he mentions on the link, then its quite understandable why right now I'm on his side and not on the the other side...5 of whom the community did not appoint (or trusts) and one who is there by 'default'
The issue is not what James did, it was the drastic step taken and above all the silence in relation to this from the 'BoT' which has become quite deafening..When you fire someone and them make a statement regarding it and why, we all would have accepted it and possibly fought it if we had found it unjustified..but when you fire someone and then run back into the hole...what are we to assume?..Its too early to start an investigation since no one is forthcoming...so speculation and allegations are the only things left... I'm not angry, I personally don't care but I have seen too much nonsense by the hierarchy over the last 5 years to allow another one to be swept under the rug under the veil of "privacy" ...
again, i disagree with little (if any) of what you say that. I don’t agree with the characterization, prior to any sort of investigation, that something was absolutely wrong. We don’t KNOW what’s gone on, is my point.
So let’s not speculate until and unless an investigation is completed - and probably not then either.
pb
On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:54 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com wrote:
I'm quite aware of what James was trying to achieve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Doc_James/Foundation) and I'm fully in support of his ideas so if whatever he did was related to one of those he mentions on the link, then its quite understandable why right now I'm on his side and not on the the other side...5 of whom the community did not appoint (or trusts) and one who is there by 'default'
The issue is not what James did, it was the drastic step taken and above all the silence in relation to this from the 'BoT' which has become quite deafening..When you fire someone and them make a statement regarding it and why, we all would have accepted it and possibly fought it if we had found it unjustified..but when you fire someone and then run back into the hole...what are we to assume?..Its too early to start an investigation since no one is forthcoming...so speculation and allegations are the only things left... I'm not angry, I personally don't care but I have seen too much nonsense by the hierarchy over the last 5 years to allow another one to be swept under the rug under the veil of "privacy" ...
-- Cometstyles
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Philippe -
Well - one of the things is - from all public indication from the BoT - it doesn't appear that it's their current inclination to do something like commission an outside review of the situation by a consultancy familiar with Florida NPO governance. I definitely don't want to pronounce early judgement, but both public and private conversations have made me think that this situation is worth a formal investigation, and allegations of potentially intentionally withholding relevant documents from sitting trustees just make me think even more than an outside review is appropriate. I hate wasting $20 or $40k of movement money on such a review, but since, if substantiated and not resolved, thes allegations could be so damaging to Wikimedia, I unfortunately think it's necessary unless James speaks out against the idea.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Philippe Beaudette philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
again, i disagree with little (if any) of what you say that. I don’t agree with the characterization, prior to any sort of investigation, that something was absolutely wrong. We don’t KNOW what’s gone on, is my point.
So let’s not speculate until and unless an investigation is completed - and probably not then either.
pb
On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:54 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com wrote:
I'm quite aware of what James was trying to achieve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Doc_James/Foundation) and I'm fully in support of his ideas so if whatever he did was related to one of those he mentions on the link, then its quite understandable why right now I'm on his side and not on the the other side...5 of whom the community did not appoint (or trusts) and one who is there by 'default'
The issue is not what James did, it was the drastic step taken and above all the silence in relation to this from the 'BoT' which has become quite deafening..When you fire someone and them make a statement regarding it and why, we all would have accepted it and possibly fought it if we had found it unjustified..but when you fire someone and then run back into the hole...what are we to assume?..Its too early to start an investigation since no one is forthcoming...so speculation and allegations are the only things left... I'm not angry, I personally don't care but I have seen too much nonsense by the hierarchy over the last 5 years to allow another one to be swept under the rug under the veil of "privacy" ...
-- Cometstyles
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I think that a broader-scoped review would be beneficial, including a review of the Board's alignment with nonprofit governance best practices, especially with respect to best practices surrounding the decision to dismiss James and the subsequent actions and comments of Board members. I believe that WMF commissioned a similar report about WMUK in the past, so there is precedent for doing this.
Pine
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 10:03 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Philippe -
Well - one of the things is - from all public indication from the BoT - it doesn't appear that it's their current inclination to do something like commission an outside review of the situation by a consultancy familiar with Florida NPO governance. I definitely don't want to pronounce early judgement, but both public and private conversations have made me think that this situation is worth a formal investigation, and allegations of potentially intentionally withholding relevant documents from sitting trustees just make me think even more than an outside review is appropriate. I hate wasting $20 or $40k of movement money on such a review, but since, if substantiated and not resolved, thes allegations could be so damaging to Wikimedia, I unfortunately think it's necessary unless James speaks out against the idea.
Best, KG
I know you probably realize this pb, but I just want to emphasize that the verbiage that certainly something untoward has taken place wasn't coming from me, and would like to stress that to the rest of the list. It's just such a serious matter, that I believe outside investigation is almost certainly warranted, unless James agrees that there was no such withholding and additionally agrees that the degree of transparency with which his removal took place is in line with both the law and the values of the movement. On the extreme end, under california NPO governance, there are certain situations where such intentional document withholding could actually risk eliminating the normal shield trustees enjoy for most of their actions and making them personally liable, so it's a situation that's weird enough that clearing it up with transparency and speed is in the best interests of the Wikimedia movement.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Philippe Beaudette philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
Kevin,
I disagree with nothing you’ve said here. What I disagreed with was the characterization that “certainly” something untoward had taken place.
pb
On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:41 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Philippe -
I totally agree with you that none of my experiences with WMF suggest
that
such a thing is likely to happen. Organizations and people change over time, though - similarly, this is the first time a sitting trustee has
been
dismissed. Given the unusuality of the situation, in my opinion at
least,
given the *drastic* seriousness that something like deliberately withholding documents in such a manner under California state law (I
can't
speak with familiarity about Florida NPO governance,) and the fact that both the BoT and James could pretty easily give flat out answers to the question of whether or not they think it occurred, I think it's worth asking for those answers.
If James and the BoT agree that such withholding took place, I think it demands an outside review of WMF governance. If James thinks it did, but the rest of the BoT disagrees.. given the general respect held for James' and the seriousness of the charge, I think an outside review of WMF governance is *still* probably reasonably necessary. If neither thinks such withholding took place, then it settles a serious charge quite
simply.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:01 PM, philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that
Ben
cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding.
In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well connected.
-- Philippe Beaudette philippe.beaudette@icloud.com
On Jan 2, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com
wrote:
We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth coming out..
People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. How deep does it go? ..
-- Cometstyles
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Quite right, I didn’t mean to imply (and in retrospect i understand a reading that would miss that detail) that the verbiage in question was yours.
It was not.
pb
On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
I know you probably realize this pb, but I just want to emphasize that the verbiage that certainly something untoward has taken place wasn't coming from me, and would like to stress that to the rest of the list. It's just such a serious matter, that I believe outside investigation is almost certainly warranted, unless James agrees that there was no such withholding and additionally agrees that the degree of transparency with which his removal took place is in line with both the law and the values of the movement. On the extreme end, under california NPO governance, there are certain situations where such intentional document withholding could actually risk eliminating the normal shield trustees enjoy for most of their actions and making them personally liable, so it's a situation that's weird enough that clearing it up with transparency and speed is in the best interests of the Wikimedia movement.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Philippe Beaudette philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
Kevin,
I disagree with nothing you’ve said here. What I disagreed with was the characterization that “certainly” something untoward had taken place.
pb
On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:41 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Philippe -
I totally agree with you that none of my experiences with WMF suggest
that
such a thing is likely to happen. Organizations and people change over time, though - similarly, this is the first time a sitting trustee has
been
dismissed. Given the unusuality of the situation, in my opinion at
least,
given the *drastic* seriousness that something like deliberately withholding documents in such a manner under California state law (I
can't
speak with familiarity about Florida NPO governance,) and the fact that both the BoT and James could pretty easily give flat out answers to the question of whether or not they think it occurred, I think it's worth asking for those answers.
If James and the BoT agree that such withholding took place, I think it demands an outside review of WMF governance. If James thinks it did, but the rest of the BoT disagrees.. given the general respect held for James' and the seriousness of the charge, I think an outside review of WMF governance is *still* probably reasonably necessary. If neither thinks such withholding took place, then it settles a serious charge quite
simply.
Best, KG
On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:01 PM, philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that
Ben
cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding.
In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well connected.
-- Philippe Beaudette philippe.beaudette@icloud.com
On Jan 2, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Comet styles cometstyles@gmail.com
wrote:
We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth coming out..
People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. How deep does it go? ..
-- Cometstyles
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